U.K. Police Warned Not to Ask for 'Christian' Name to Avoid Offending Other Faiths

reply to post by simples

Originally posted by simples
reply to post by LiveForever8

 

Why should we in the uk change how we ask people for their Christian name because somebody DECIDED (decided been the key word not forced) that they wanted to live in th uk, so why should we change because it might offend them

Unless you are a police officer, you don't have to change how you ask people for their forename. And I wouldn't pay much attention to the divisive tactics employed by newspapers like The Daily Mail.

Originally posted by simples
reply to post by LiveForever8

 

Don't like it go home! I bet they wouldn't get the same lifestyle as they do in the uk and if they claim they would have a better lifestyle in there own country BS if that was the case you still wouldn't be here

I am at home, thank you very much

Who is this "they" you speak of?

Originally posted by simples
I am absolutely sick to death of this country! I am no more proud to call myself a British citizen and im a serving soldier, if someone of another culture decides to live in the uk they should understand our culture and our beliefs and obide by our rules! not us bending over backwards not to offend them it's pathetic!

Another culture you say? I suggest that the next time you get some leave, you take a look around the UK. You'll notice a great many churches that are closed. A lot sold off to become nightclubs, warehouses, accommodation, sound studios etc. Even those that appear to be open are often simply renting out space to a non-religious community group.

Ask yourself, how much money have you ever given to support christianity? Are you even christian? If so, are you like the vast majority of UK christians for whom it plays no role in their life except births, deaths & marriages, who wouldn't dip their wallet for more than £5 on those few occasions & only do that b/c they'd be embarrassed not to when the collection plate comes round?

Hey, its Friday night. If you're off base in the UK, pop down town & have a look how much "other cheek" turning is going on... better yet, see how everyone is scrupulously avoiding committing any christian sins !
Another culture? British culture dropped christianity a long time ago & it didn't need any foreigners to achieve that. In fact, its the immigrants that are more likely to be religious.

Just who is actually paying for the activities of evangelical christians in the UK? American christian groups is who. Effing foreigners poking their noses into our culture! Its no more appropriate for a UK copper to ask for a christian name than for them to ask what colour your undies are.

Look let me make one thing clear I'm not a racist and by no means am I against other peoples religion.

To answer your question yes I am Christian and I do go to church and i am not frightened of putting my hand in my pocket to give.

You both have alot of valid points and I'm not disputing that, my point is why should British people or police have to change the way they ask for a name because it might offend. People have asked for years and years "what is your Christian name".

The reason things like this really annoy me is because it's not just about the asking for a Christian name thing, do you know we are not allowed to fly the union or St georges flag because it my offend, the government was thinking about banning Christmas cards that said "merry Christmas" and changing it to seasons greetings because it might offend other nationals living in the uk. We have had Muslims parading through London with banners saying "kill all British soldiers" Muslims that live in Britain! Does that offend me YES but no one cares.

Why are the government caring more about asylum seekers and foreign nationals more than it's own people?

Did you know that 10,000 British people emigrate to other countries a year and the uk take on over 10.000 asylum seekers/foreign nationals every year at this rate there will be no British people left in Britain.

You've GOT to be joking. Political Correctness run amok.

People have to understand that if they live in a Christian country, then there are certain Christian practices that must be tolerated.

Don't like it? Move.

Originally posted by simples
Why are the government caring more about asylum seekers and foreign nationals more than it's own people?

Very good question.

I think an age old adage can solve that particular mystery:

Divide and Conquer.

To emphasise this point, I guide you in the direction of this brilliant thread by Hefficide, entitled: The Face of Your Enemy. We are served enemies (distractions) so that we don't stop for a minute and realise what an absolutely #ty society we truly live in. And it's not because of foreigners, it is in spite of them.

People get mad when they see stories (often massively exaggerated) about asylum seekers or foreign nationals who earn "xxx" amount in benefits and who live in mansions and drive Ferraris, and who do they get mad at...the individuals. This is wrong. Ask yourself; why did the government allow this? Which once again brings me back to the "Divide and Conquer" adage. It has worked for hundreds of years, and will continue to do so.

I agree with you that it has become tedious. Not being able to put up Christmas lights or wave the national flag. but it works both ways. I saw a story recently about an Italian woman ,who lived in the UK, who was unable to put her national flag in her flat window because of complaints from BRITISH neighbours.

The whole thing is ridiculous.

Which is why I dont bite whenever I see a story like this. They want to change it from "Christian name" to "Forename"....so what? It's really not a big deal. Especially in such a secular society like the UK. I'm an atheist who was never Christened, but I'll most probably still use the term as often as I used to because it's not a big deal.

Getting angry isn't necessarily a bad thing. Just be more selective in what you get angry about. This isn't worth your time. We have bigger fish to fry

So this new set of guidelines is so that other 'faiths' dont get offended...In other words, so they don't offend muslims. Absolutely ridiculous.

reply to post by LiveForever8


I agree we do have bigger fish to fry.

Just one thing to add that I agree with the Italian wman thing this isn't her country why should she fly the Italian flag? I'm sorry if you don't agree but I would not dream of emigrating to let's say Spain and flying the union flag there it's not my country what hives me the right.

reply to post by simples


Maybe because she is proud of her country? At the end of the day it's just a piece of cheap cloth with pretty colours on it, I'll never understand the rabid fascination with flags

She also has the right because she was on her own property, it's as simple as that. She isn't offending anyone. There are Italian restaurants all over the country that incorporate the Italian flag into their displays, I'm sure you wouldn't think twice about it whilst going in to order a 10" Pepperoni?

People really do get hung up on the simplest of things.

reply to post by LiveForever8


the problem is i cant fly my flag in my country why should she be able to in my country, it might of been on her property and that doesnt count for much in the UK anymore but if its on display where the public can see it then it doesnt matter if its on her property.

do you think we have ranted right off topic

reply to post by simples


You can't use the St George's Cross in Germany? Why not? And if you can't, that says more about their society than it does ours.

I believe she had every right to put her national flag on show, on her own property, what is wrong with that? During the World Cup, the country is overwhelmed by English flags, and that's fine, but it's also nice to see other nationalities giving their national flag pride of place in their car/home windows.

A multi-cultural society isn't as bad as some tabloid newspapers would have us believe. Racism is just another weapon that "they" use, and it's quite an effective one, unfortunately.

Off topic? Maybe

reply to post by simples


Whats all this "go home" business, you do realise that these people are UK citizens invited to the country to help build up its industrial cities? The country has been built on the backs of workers many of whom came from different cultures around the world. They are british citizens and have as much right to be here as you or I.

reply to post by d60944Turns out that my memory for etymology wasn't quite accurate, but the gist of what I said was:

The local priests, moved by compassion for these poor imbeciles, encouraged the populace to treat them kindly. They deserved pity, it was said, because they were, at least, Christians (i.e. "human beings")

Linky

I'm suggesting that, just as you say, language is fluid, & that the word "christian", far from your claim that it beggars belief, is actually a word that has changed its meaning in the UK. As a guess, I'd say that over 1/2 the people I know (& myself) consider the word "christian" as synonymous with "willfully ignorant slave" & thus, in common parlance, with cretin/moron/idiot etc. so, to all practical intents, a copper may just as well ask for our "cretin names".

I mentioned my former neighbours' faith b/c I consider it quite poetically beautiful that our language has brought the word "christian" round to an almost full circle. In my life, even those who think religion is worthy of respect understand the phrase "That's a bit christian, isn't it?" to mean "What you've just said/done is so chauvinistic &/or self-defeatingly short sighted that it requires well meaning censure." which sentiment, 20yrs ago, may have just as well been expressed by saying, "Dont be such a cretin!"

Indeed language changes, but the police are in a job where violence & severe legal penalties can & do occur regularly. Thus they should say nothing that needs to be interpreted from a colloquialism to be understood to mean exactly what the words do mean in current parlance. From time to time, I suppose this needs a memorandum to update them... after all, they're coppers, not linguists.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


i think you have either completely lost the plot or not a read all the posts properly. how are asylum seekers invited?

read before comment please

reply to post by Bunken Drum


i have never heard anybody in all my life use the sentence "thats so christian" honestly sounds like alot of smelly brown stuff, honestly cmon!

Originally posted by babybunnies
You've GOT to be joking. Political Correctness run amok.

People have to understand that if they live in a Christian country, then there are certain Christian practices that must be tolerated.

Don't like it? Move.

Well that's the question, isn't it? If?

The evidence suggests that the UK isn't a christian country, otherwise there'd be plenty of people donating money to pay for churches. As it happens, the Anglican Church only exists b/c it owns so much property that it can rent out without paying tax & can thus afford to pay its clergy their wages. Hardly anyone in the UK actually lives by any kind of christian doctrine & that includes most of those who claim to be christians.

Its not that christianity is actually dead here, its just in a hospice receiving palliative care until it finally does us all a favour & gives up the ghost.

Hey, dont take my word for it. Go to the Office Of National Statistics website & see for yourself just how few people in the UK profess a different faith to christianity. Then wonder, well, if there are so many who profess christianity, why are all the churches closing down? We voted with our feet. Sin is far more fun than religion & technology makes sinning possible without medieval consequences.

Hmmm... Where should I move to? A born & bred Brit who is quite happy with christianity failing abysmally & costing its proponents plenty to keep it alive? I've considered The Netherlands & British Columbia, but I'm afraid that both of them are a bit too religious for me. I think I'm best staying right here in the UK as my base of operations & enjoying every scrap of freedom from religion we, the majority, can squeeze out of our masters.

If the police cant reference religion when they speak to us, that's good. If they have to wipe their feet before coming into our houses, that's better. If the assumption that invoking the god of Abraham as an unassailable authority figure is destroyed in my life that will be magnificent!

reply to post by simples


I have, with sarcastic emphasis on christian. It is said like "How very christian of you" followed by an eyeroll. Although I haven't heard it a whole lot, I have heard the phrase used.

Originally posted by simples
reply to post by Bunken Drum

 

i have never heard anybody in all my life use the sentence "thats so christian" honestly sounds like alot of smelly brown stuff, honestly cmon!

The phrase isn't "so christian", that would be sort of American English (although I expect it'll become common eventually); its "a bit christian" & its used to gently chide somebody rather than just saying something like "WTF? You effin' moron!"

Examples would be if say a nurse said they intended to vote Conservative; if somebody said they were refusing sex with someone they fancy for whatever societal reasons; or say if someone refused a particular cab company that could get there quickly b/c the driver would be of some particular ethnicity.

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
I'm suggesting that, just as you say, language is fluid, & that the word "christian", far from your claim that it beggars belief, is actually a word that has changed its meaning in the UK. As a guess, I'd say that over 1/2 the people I know (& myself) consider the word "christian" as synonymous with "willfully ignorant slave" & thus, in common parlance, with cretin/moron/idiot etc. so, to all practical intents, a copper may just as well ask for our "cretin names".

I mentioned my former neighbours' faith b/c I consider it quite poetically beautiful that our language has brought the word "christian" round to an almost full circle. In my life, even those who think religion is worthy of respect understand the phrase "That's a bit christian, isn't it?" to mean "What you've just said/done is so chauvinistic &/or self-defeatingly short sighted that it requires well meaning censure." which sentiment, 20yrs ago, may have just as well been expressed by saying, "Dont be such a cretin!"

Can I ask where it is in the UK that you live and speak? What sort of community? City? Etc.

Ta.

Rob.

I am a person of another faith and am opposed to OTT evangelical Xtianity. I have no problem with the police asking me my Xtian name. I want the poor clean up rate for crime improved. How much will this foolishness cost? Will it catch more Criminals? Hell no!

Sheesh

reply to post by d60944

Can I ask where it is in the UK that you live and speak? What sort of community? City? Etc.

Ta.

Rob.

Difficult to answer straightforwardly! I'm based in Nottingham, near the city centre, but when business is good, I get around a lot. Usually to Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol & London, in the UK. My circle of acquaintance is probably a lot bigger than most people's b/c I'm also fairly active in the BDSM scene & work in media production, both of which involve meeting new people all the time. The specific community my home is in is about 1/2 & 1/2 students & muslim families. B/c of some local idiocy around urban foxes & a specific event involving burglary, I've ended up as a sort of unofficial liason between the local police & some of the more colourful characters round here. TBH, I'm getting a bit sick of it b/c I'm a night person & they're always after me when I'm trying to sleep. Hey, pay me & we can work something out!

Even tho I dont need to travel for business much atm, I still pop around to visit people, so my actual UK community is spread all over. Its mainly theatre & media types (although not print journalism) & "alternative lifestyle" types. On the whole I'd say that if there's anything that makes "us" a definable "community", its a higher standard of education than seems to be average. For eg, there aren't many people whose name I can remember who dont have @least 1 degree. Still, through my family & childhood friends, I also know a lot of people from all sorts of walks of life. I'd say that these people probably dont quite understand the full depths of the contempt implied by the phrase "a bit christian", but they seem to get the gist of it anyway.

Hope that helps!