Why do we travel through time at 1 second per second?

You read the title. Why? Why this speed? Why not fowards and backwards? Or even metaphorical directions akin to sideways where not much time passes at all for us per second of time that passed for other things? Or vica versa?

The purpose of this thread is to consider these questions and propose concievable responses which will hopefully challenge and develope our concepts of time and reality. Audience participation is manditory.

Wikipedia has a pretty decent layman's discussion of several of the relevant concepts. Here are select parts of that article:

Time is part of the measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify the motions of objects. Time has been a major subject of religion, philosophy, and science, but defining it in a non-controversial manner applicable to all fields of study has consistently eluded the greatest scholars.

From the age of Newton up until Einstein's profound reinterpretation of the physical concepts associated with time and space, time was considered to be "absolute" and to flow "equably" (to use the words of Newton) for all observers. The science of classical mechanics is based on this Newtonian idea of time.

Einstein, in his special theory of relativity, postulated the constancy and finiteness of the speed of light for all observers. He showed that this postulate, together with a reasonable definition for what it means for two events to be simultaneous, requires that distances appear compressed and time intervals appear lengthened for events associated with objects in motion relative to an inertial observer.

Einstein showed that if time and space is measured using electromagnetic phenomena (like light bouncing between mirrors) then due to the constancy of the speed of light, time and space become mathematically entangled together in a certain way (called Minkowski space) which in turn results in Lorentz transformation and in entanglement of all other important derivative physical quantities (like energy, momentum, mass, force, etc) in a certain 4-vectorial way (see special relativity for more details).

In classical mechanics, Newton's concept of "relative, apparent, and common time" can be used in the formulation of a prescription for the synchronization of clocks. Events seen by two different observers in motion relative to each other produce a mathematical concept of time that works pretty well for describing the everyday phenomena of most people's experience.

In the late nineteenth century, physicists encountered problems with the classical understanding of time, in connection with the behavior of electricity and magnetism. Einstein resolved these problems by invoking a method of synchronizing clocks using the constant, finite speed of light as the maximum signal velocity. This led directly to the result that observers in motion relative to one another will measure different elapsed times for the same event.

Time has historically been closely related with space, the two together comprising spacetime in Einstein's special relativity and general relativity. According to these theories, the concept of time depends on the spatial reference frame of the observer, and the human perception as well as the measurement by instruments such as clocks are different for observers in relative motion. The past is the set of events that can send light signals to the observer, the future is the set of events to which the observer can send light signals.

"Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once". This quote, attributed variously to Einstein, John Archibald Wheeler, and Woody Allen, says that time is what separates cause and effect. Einstein showed in his thought experiments that people travelling at different speeds, while agreeing on cause and effect, will measure different time separations between events and can even observe different chronological orderings between non-causally related events. Though these effects are typically minute in the human experience, the effect becomes much more pronounced for objects moving at speeds approaching the speed of light. Many subatomic particles exist for only a fixed fraction of a second in a lab relatively at rest, but some that travel close to the speed of light can be measured to travel further and survive much longer than expected (a muon is one example). According to the special theory of relativity, in the high-speed particle's frame of reference, it exists, on the average, for a standard amount of time known as its mean lifetime, and the distance it travels in that time is zero, because its velocity is zero. Relative to a frame of reference at rest, time seems to "slow down" for the particle. Relative to the high-speed particle, distances seem to shorten. Even in Newtonian terms time may be considered the fourth dimension of motion; but Einstein showed how both temporal and spatial dimensions can be altered (or "warped") by high-speed motion.

Einstein (The Meaning of Relativity): "Two events taking place at the points A and B of a system K are simultaneous if they appear at the same instant when observed from the middle point, M, of the interval AB. Time is then defined as the ensemble of the indications of similar clocks, at rest relatively to K, which register the same simultaneously."

Einstein wrote in his book, Relativity, that simultaneity is also relative, i.e., two events that appear simultaneous to an observer in a particular inertial reference frame need not be judged as simultaneous by a second observer in a different inertial frame of reference.

Time appears to have a direction – the past lies behind, fixed and incommutable, while the future lies ahead and is not necessarily fixed. Yet the majority of the laws of physics don't provide this arrow of time. The exceptions include the Second law of thermodynamics, which states that entropy must increase over time (see Entropy); the cosmological arrow of time, which points away from the Big Bang, and the radiative arrow of time, caused by light only traveling forwards in time. In particle physics, there is also the weak arrow of time, from CPT symmetry, and also measurement in quantum mechanics (see Measurement in quantum mechanics).

Continued . . .

i await the rest... s+F for an awesome topic!
(i love gassing about time!)

We are not "traveling" through time at all. To say that we time "moves" at a rate of one second per second is like saying "My computer is getting heavier at a rate of one kilogram per kilogram."

Nobody ever asks why space exists at a rate of one meter per meter. The confusion comes from a false metaphor. Time does not move.

Well the buddhist theory of momentariness says that everything exists and is unique for a moment. The moment is an infinitely minute, hypothetical convenient term for a point on a continuous stream. The point does not exist.

This is probably true, considering that our position in space correlates to it. We are on the surface of a planet that is spinning on an axis, which is orbiting our sun, which itself is careening around the galactic center on a dense galactic arm. The galaxy itself is also speeding off into who knows where. The universe is expanding on top of all of that. Each coordinates in space is unique, so the moment that holds the space must also be.

So, time and space are very well connected(like a space time fabric) and so the whole system is infinitely complex at each indivisible moment.

A second seems like a base measurement for time, but no more than an inch seems like a base measurement for space.

My 2c. Looking forward to others responses.

Star and Flag.

It is our perception of time that changes.
Speed affects our perception.

Hawkings book (illistrated brief history of time) really does a nice job simplifying the concept, and a good read.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by SLaPPiE]

Time quantization is a hypothetical concept. In the modern established physical theories (the Standard Model of Particles and Interactions and General Relativity) time is not quantized.

Planck time (~ 5.4 × 10−44 seconds) is the unit of time in the system of natural units known as Planck units. Current established physical theories are believed to fail at this time scale, and many physicists expect that the Planck time might be the smallest unit of time that could ever be measured, even in principle. Tentative physical theories that describe this time scale exist; see for instance loop quantum gravity.

Phew. Now, what to make of all this as it relates to the question of why we move through time at the rate that we do?

I imagine this motion of ours through time as being very, very similar to our motion through space. For me this question is not a lot different from the question of why we are moving through space at the rate that we are. The answer to this latter question has to do with gravity and the initial forces applied at the big bag, which sent our planet and the matter that would go on to become us hurdling through space at whatever rate. That initial explosion, plus all of the forces that have acted on us since, should fully explain our motion through space. Can something comparable be said about our motion through time?

Recommended for your viewing pleasure is the following video, which is awesome. It is about conceptualizing dimensions:
www.youtube.com...

So, now for actually trying to answer the question. I will first propose an answer which is conceivable to me, then I will propose another way out of the problem which is not really an answer.

I propose that the same sort of momentum which is carrying us through 3 dimensional space is actually carrying us through 4 dimensional space, time included. Why shouldn't this be happening? We were flung out from the big bang in the X, Y, and Z directions, why not the T direction too? This would explain why we are moving through time in the way that we are.

Additionally, we are only able to interact with things that are moving through time in more or less the same way that we are. Earth and all of the matter of our planet was sent out "this way" in time, just like it was all sent out "this way" in space. The reason that time passes consistantly is because this motion through time which we share with earth completely overwhelms any other motion that we may make ourselves. In the same way that walking doesn't compare to the tens of thousands of miles an hour that the earth obits the sun at. In fact, the effect is even more dramatic, and explains why we share this speed through time with everything in our galaxy; the reason is that the entire galaxy shares a momentum through time in much the same way it shares a momentum through space. This momentum through time and space is many orders of magnitude greater than any intentional motion we may make ourselves.

Finally, I propose that this notion explains the dark energy and dark matter that the cosmologists struggle with. These dark things are bodies with are either travelling through time at a dramatically different rate, or which are either right "behind" us or right "ahead" of us, in time. Why shouldn't it be this way? Image an explosion that sends everything out in 4 dimensions, not just three. I propose that this is the actual state of affairs, as brought about by the big bang. The gravity of these things that are not moving through time in the same way that we are is still effect observable matter, which is moving through time in the same way as us.


Part two of my reponse to the question at hand is this:

If we were moving through time at different rates at different times, or even backwards in time sometimes, we wouldn't know. Here is why:

Imagine all this variable travelling through time(foward, backward, slower, faster) is being done by one person who is standing in front of a chalkboard. The event which we will image all of this happening "during" is that he is drawing a smily face on the chalk board.

If he draws the face, and is travelling through time at one second per second, he will experience this event normally.

If he draws the face, and he and his surroundings are travelling through time at two seconds per second, he will experience this event normally.

If he draws the face at a normal rate, then goes back in time to before he drew it, he will not know the difference and experience this event normally.

The issue is that if you found yourself in a part of space that was travelling backwards in time, you woulnd't know it. If you start at point A, your brain is in some state; you are having such and such an experience and you have such and such memories of the past. Now, if you travel foward in time to point B, you have a memory of travelling from A to B. But, if you then travel back to A, so do all of the molecules in your head. You are brought back into brain state A, and have no memories of ever having progressed beyong this point. All of the memories that formed in travelling to point B are "undone" by travelling back to point A.

You could have read this entire post, and then gone back in time to the point at which you were right about to read it, and you would have no idea. You would be in the brain state of having not yet read it. Therefore backwards time travel would go completely unnoticed. This argument can easily be applied by the reader to travelling faster or slower through time, not just in the opposite direction. It would all go unnoticed, because you as an observe cannot be separated from your brain state, and whatever brain state you find youself in at time T will contain the same memories no matter how you got to time T.

Thanks for your time.

Oh yeah, and interesting that Wheeler is mentioned. I have been writing about him lately in my school papers(philosophy).

Check out this article about him from 2002 in Discover Mag. Its talking about a new version of the double slit experiment he devised. Truly mind blowing:
Article

Suppose that on Earth, some astronomers decide to observe the quasars. In this case a telescope plays the role of the photon detector in the two-slit experiment. If the astronomers point a telescope in the direction of one of the two intervening galaxies, they will see photons from the quasar that were deflected by that galaxy; they would get the same result by looking at the other galaxy. But the astronomers could also mimic the second part of the two-slit experiment. By carefully arranging mirrors, they could make photons arriving from the routes around both galaxies strike a piece of photographic film simultaneously. Alternating light and dark bands would appear on the film, identical to the pattern found when photons passed through the two slits.

Here's the odd part. The quasar could be very distant from Earth, with light so faint that its photons hit the piece of film only one at a time. But the results of the experiment wouldn't change. The striped pattern would still show up, meaning that a lone photon not observed by the telescope traveled both paths toward Earth, even if those paths were separated by many light-years. And that's not all.

By the time the astronomers decide which measurement to make— whether to pin down the photon to one definite route or to have it follow both paths simultaneously— the photon could have already journeyed for billions of years, long before life appeared on Earth. The measurements made now, says Wheeler, determine the photon's past. In one case the astronomers create a past in which a photon took both possible routes from the quasar to Earth. Alternatively, they retroactively force the photon onto one straight trail toward their detector, even though the photon began its jaunt long before any detectors existed.

It would be tempting to dismiss Wheeler's thought experiment as a curious idea, except for one thing: It has been demonstrated in a laboratory. In 1984 physicists at the University of Maryland set up a tabletop version of the delayed-choice scenario. Using a light source and an arrangement of mirrors to provide a number of possible photon routes, the physicists were able to show that the paths the photons took were not fixed until the physicists made their measurements, even though those measurements were made after the photons had already left the light source and begun their circuit through the course of mirrors.

Wheeler conjectures we are part of a universe that is a work in progress; we are tiny patches of the universe looking at itself— and building itself. It's not only the future that is still undetermined but the past as well. And by peering back into time, even all the way back to the Big Bang, our present observations select one out of many possible quantum histories for the universe.

Article

Originally posted by Blue Alice
We are not "traveling" through time at all. To say that we time "moves" at a rate of one second per second is like saying "My computer is getting heavier at a rate of one kilogram per kilogram."

Nobody ever asks why space exists at a rate of one meter per meter. The confusion comes from a false metaphor. Time does not move.

I'm not sure that time is like mass very much at all. Your computer is not getting heavier, and space is not moving through space. I'm not suggesting that time is moving. But, very clearly - to me at least - we move through time.

If you define some three dimensional space, things can happen in that space. They don't all happen at once, but they all happen in the same space. So, what keeps them from happening at once? They happen at different points in time. There are such things as points in time; there must be in order to explain why everything is different from moment to moment. We do travel between these points, and we travel between them at a certain rate.

Originally posted by OnceReturned

Finally, I propose that this notion explains the dark energy and dark matter that the cosmologists struggle with. These dark things are bodies with are either travelling through time at a dramatically different rate, or which are either right "behind" us or right "ahead" of us, in time. Why shouldn't it be this way? Image an explosion that sends everything out in 4 dimensions, not just three. I propose that this is the actual state of affairs, as brought about by the big bang. The gravity of these things that are not moving through time in the same way that we are is still effect observable matter, which is moving through time in the same way as us.

You may be right here wow . Maby theres something to that age old question `where does the time go ` after all !

Leapyear....................
oops

Atomic clock accuracy? Speed is a factor.

reply to post by OnceReturned


OK, let's go a little deeper. You are standing, or sitting in a stationary place on the planet. right now the Earth is going about 10,000 miles per hour as she spins, and then you add the speed of her movement as she orbits the Sun, then we have to figure in the speed of our own galaxy as it orbits the Pleiadian star Alycone. Just sitting still, we are going really fast, huh?

Something can only "travel" relative to time. We are not moving through time, we are merely continuing to exist. Time does not "flow," therefore there is no need for such nonsense as "one second per second."

Originally posted by beebs
Oh yeah, and interesting that Wheeler is mentioned. I have been writing about him lately in my school papers(philosophy).

Check out this article about him from 2002 in Discover Mag. Its talking about a new version of the double slit experiment he devised. Truly mind blowing:
Article

Suppose that on Earth, some astronomers decide to observe the quasars. In this case a telescope plays the role of the photon detector in the two-slit experiment. If the astronomers point a telescope in the direction of one of the two intervening galaxies, they will see photons from the quasar that were deflected by that galaxy; they would get the same result by looking at the other galaxy. But the astronomers could also mimic the second part of the two-slit experiment. By carefully arranging mirrors, they could make photons arriving from the routes around both galaxies strike a piece of photographic film simultaneously. Alternating light and dark bands would appear on the film, identical to the pattern found when photons passed through the two slits.

Here's the odd part. The quasar could be very distant from Earth, with light so faint that its photons hit the piece of film only one at a time. But the results of the experiment wouldn't change. The striped pattern would still show up, meaning that a lone photon not observed by the telescope traveled both paths toward Earth, even if those paths were separated by many light-years. And that's not all.

By the time the astronomers decide which measurement to make— whether to pin down the photon to one definite route or to have it follow both paths simultaneously— the photon could have already journeyed for billions of years, long before life appeared on Earth. The measurements made now, says Wheeler, determine the photon's past. In one case the astronomers create a past in which a photon took both possible routes from the quasar to Earth. Alternatively, they retroactively force the photon onto one straight trail toward their detector, even though the photon began its jaunt long before any detectors existed.

It would be tempting to dismiss Wheeler's thought experiment as a curious idea, except for one thing: It has been demonstrated in a laboratory. In 1984 physicists at the University of Maryland set up a tabletop version of the delayed-choice scenario. Using a light source and an arrangement of mirrors to provide a number of possible photon routes, the physicists were able to show that the paths the photons took were not fixed until the physicists made their measurements, even though those measurements were made after the photons had already left the light source and begun their circuit through the course of mirrors.

Wheeler conjectures we are part of a universe that is a work in progress; we are tiny patches of the universe looking at itself— and building itself. It's not only the future that is still undetermined but the past as well. And by peering back into time, even all the way back to the Big Bang, our present observations select one out of many possible quantum histories for the universe.

Article

Thats a whole new meaning to the phrase 're-writing history'!

Truly fascinating, thanks for sharing.

The way I see it, time doesn't exist, It's just our perception of space in motion. Would space exist if there was no consciousness to experience it? i think it would, would time exist? I don't think so. Probably wrong though.

Interesting thread, be back when I get some sleep, been working nights.

EMM

A good book to read on this subject - The end of time, by Julian Barbour.

Basically time does not exist. It only appears to exist because we are able to observe it. We can say that we are on our computers "now" and that at some point "later", we will be in the kitchen to get some food.

Take a snap shot of both events - one at the computer and one in the kitchen, we will call these "nows". How would you arrange them in order without some sort of reference like a time watermark on the image or the fact that I told you the event at the computer came before the kitchen event?

Interesting read if you have a chance....

yep, time is a subjective illusion, and most of the people (in their thoughts) live either in the future or the past, missing what is going on in the now

however, I believe the time was invented so the slaves could come to work at the same moment every day... and that is the main reason why this civilization insist going exactly 1 second forward every second...



[edit on 13-3-2010 by donhuangenaro]

Whooaaa, .. this thread is soooo deep it almost lacks complete sense.


I"ll answer your question, ... with a question.

Why does water freeze at 32 degrees ??

Why are there seven days in a week ??


a second is a second because we choose to label it that, it is a standard for measuring time..... and the "speed of time" is directly related to the speed of the earths movment.

reply to post by breakonthrough9


I would say that the way you tell the difference between the time when I am in the kitchen and the time when I am in the office is remarkably similar to the way you tell the difference between the office and the kitchen.

The office and the kitchen are at different points in space. They look different, and they are not overlapping. I think the same can be said about the different times. They look differe(in one can I am in the office and in the other I am in the kitched) and they are not overlapping.

Can anyone explain to me how time and space are different at all?

It seems to me that time is just a different direction in space; one which we as humans experience radically differently from the other spacial dimensions. I think it is very easy - and correct - to conceptualize myself as a four dimensional being. I have the three dimensional volume of my body, and my volume in the fourth dimension is the space I occupy from birth to death. It seems as though my conscious perspective is moving along this four dimensional shape, and is only able to see an infinitesimal slice of it at once.

I think, time is a word we humans use for explaining when something begins and something ends.
In my opinion, time is an illusion created by the brain. Why?

The human brain can process up to 18 impressions/impulses from the oudside coming into the brain in 1 second.

A humming bird can process up to 120 impressions/impulses a second, so for the bird time 'seems' to go faster.

Why? ..here's an example: Lets say a human is watching a humming bird flap his wings a 100 times a second, with the a human staring at it, processing 10 impressions/impulses per second. So the brain can only process 10 impressions and impulses per sec now, and the bird is flapping his wings 10 times in each impressions...okay?

Now lets say the our brain can process one hundred impressions/impulses per second. When we now look at the humming bird, which is flapping his wings a 100 times a second. It now only flaps his wings ONE time during each impression... so a lot less is happening during one impressions/impuls.. Time seems to go slower, because there ain't happening so much.

Now that doesn't explain what time is.. but it explains how we conceive time.

I think that TIME should not be seen as a constant motion of 'something' we live trough or in, or around. I think its just creation and decay. Everything has its creation and its decay... The creation and decay process is found in every aspect of life, the world we live in and even thoughts.

So why not travel backwards in 'time' .. Well in my perspective you would have to turn back the creation and decay process. But then again..maybe it just isn't possible.

And maybe I'm dead wrong.. and time is something like a highway. And we are cruising forward right now.

Cheers

www.centaurihome.net...

Here is a link to some calculations about time dilation that my father came up with.

The duration of one second is still one second whether you are on earth or you are traveling at or near the speed of light. The only difference is that someone observing you will experience the second you experienced as longer or shorter depending on your speed relative to the observer.

I think I got that right...:O

www.andersoninstitute.com...

US institute for time control research. See also Dr Anderson interview on Coast to coast AM and Examiner.com. He says 5-6 countries are doing it and India is the leader. www.youtube.com...