Justified killings and Why I support it

Time and time again I've read posts stating that "Under no circumstances is killing justified...". Or "the means don't justify the end...". Posts along these lines are ignorant. Let me start by saying that the circumstances (and I know many will disagree) in which someone is killed can actually have a legitimate reason *gasps*. Let me give an example.

Mr. Harvey is your average working class man. He lives in a small house with his wife and children. One night he hears noises coming from the living room. He grabs his shotgun and proceeds to search for the source of the noise. Upon entering the living room he sees a man wielding a knife. Mr. Harvey yells a warning at the intruder, Who then rushes towards Mr. Harvey. Mr. Harvey fires off two shots and kills the intruder.

Now for those who still say that killing cannot be justified, Place yourself in Mr. Harvey's shoes. If a stranger rushed at you with a knife, Putting yourself and your family in danger, Would you still say that killing this man is wrong, Would you try do the right thing and talk it out*sarcastic*? Or would you pull the trigger? To elaborate further the Castle Doctrine states that deadly force may be used in cases where you feel your or someone elses life is in danger.

Killing for a cause can also be justified. Now I know that I will get alot of comments saying I'm full of hatred, Have no heart, is ignorant... etc. Just keep in mind that these are my opinions. Freedom of speech . Would you be willing to kill or die for your country? If you answered 'yes' then you have just agreed to killing for a cause. You may not even agree on the reason but because you've killed, You've killed on behalf of someone else. Let's take the Iraq war. Your killing because your fighting terrorism... and because you want the oil . Is that not a just cause? To fight to protect something?

With this I leave you to your thoughts.

*Expects alot of negative feedback*

Very good post. I'm glad someone is brave enough to finally come out with this thread. But man Oh man, are you going to make alot of Foes today.

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine

Now for those who still say that killing cannot be justified, Place yourself in Mr. Harvey's shoes. If a stranger rushed at you with a knife, Putting yourself and your family in danger, Would you still say that killing this man is wrong, Would you try do the right thing and talk it out*sarcastic*? Or would you pull the trigger?

considering it's just a knife, and he is charging me with it, I would hit the guy with the butt of the gun. 2.5 ft reach vs 5-10 in knife.. Who do you thinks going to win? No need to kill.

under certain circumstances, if you have to kill or be killed, murder is justified, it's called self-defense and most countries do not imprison people for it. However, killing 1 million people because some group supposedly killed 3000 people is not justified, especially when it is highly suspect the said group did not actually do the killings.

reply to post by Ghost in the Machine


The Castle Doctrine is not applicable to killing for, or in the name of, the country. If you believe it is, I'd like for you to cite five cases where it was ruled as such.

In regards to Mr. Harvey, he was justified in his actions and if I were in his shoes I'd do the same thing.

An uninvited person entering my home is going to leave in a heavy zippered bag. Some people live in the real world; some people invent a world and then pretend to live in it. These are the hand-wringers who who feel that the "sacredness of life" trumps every other consideration. Notice that I said "feel" rather than "think". These people feel everything and think nothing.

reply to post by EMPIRE


Yes your correct on the Castle Doctrine. It was my fault, I should have been clearer on what reference I was using it for.

reply to post by Phlynx

considering it's just a knife, and he is charging me with it, I would hit the guy with the butt of the gun. 2.5 ft reach vs 5-10 in knife.. Who do you thinks going to win? No need to kill.

Take into account human error. What if you miss? or the intruder is skilled in martial arts? Because you don't know who this person is, Would you still be willing to let him get that close to you with a knife?

Although I do generally oppose violence, in the scenario you give, there is not much to argue with. If someone is coming at you in your own home as an intruder with a knife, then you can reasonably assume they are going to kill you if they can, or in the least do you harm.

Last time I checked we still have the constitutional right to defend ourselves and our property. It would be a horrible decision to have to make, but I think our survival instinct would make it for us very quickly.

If someone's coming at you with a knife, there is not much time to evaluate options.

I'd try to shoot to maim, not necessarily to kill. Aim at the legs/feet. A shotgun wound to his legs will stop him in his tracks, I don't care how well-trained he is in the martial arts, that's one wound he won't be able to overcome.

here is your negative feedback:

"-"

why does everyone here appoligise for their posts?

reply to post by Sover3igN


Because you have to be sensitive about the death subject...

I don't care what anyone says. If I caught someone raping my wife, mother, or sister, I would kill them right then. I don't think I would be able to stop myself from doing so.

Guess what? I would also kill to protect my children.

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
reply to post by Sover3igN

 

Because you have to be sensitive about the death subject...

In life people can suffer a whole lot worse than they can in death. In death it's quick and done.

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine


Mr. Harvey is your average working class man. He lives in a small house with his wife and children. One night he hears noises coming from the living room. He grabs his shotgun and proceeds to search for the source of the noise. Upon entering the living room he sees a man wielding a knife. Mr. Harvey yells a warning at the intruder, Who then rushes towards Mr. Harvey. Mr. Harvey fires off two shots and kills the intruder.




*Expects alot of negative feedback*

Hello,
The situation you presented that I quote above is not in my opinion "killing." I would call that neutralizing a threat, self defense. If I want to prevent my life from being brought to an abrupt, and violent end, I would avoid trying to rob or take what does not belong to me from somebody else.
Good thread!

Originally posted by Ghost in the Machine
reply to post by Sover3igN

 

Because you have to be sensitive about the death subject...

why?

plus... i asked everyone on ATS actually.

almost all post start with: "sorry!" in the first alinea
what the H are we affraid of?
H?

[edit on 12-3-2010 by Sover3igN]

[edit on 12-3-2010 by Sover3igN]

How many causes are worth dying for anyway?

You can usually serve those that are worth dying for better by staying alive.

I guess Schindler could have stopped playing ball with the Nazis, gone up to an officer and said “I won’t cooperate with you anti-Semites, I hate Hitler”, and got shot on the spot to make a point, or he could have played it cool and saved all those people from death.

reply to post by Sover3igN


Matter of Fact I never used the word "sorry" or made any apologies in my post. All I mean is that its a sensitive subject when talking about murder.


[edit on 12-3-2010 by Ghost in the Machine]

Only extreme pacifists will say killing is never justified. Most of us agree that under certain circumstances killing can be justified, like the situation the OP brought up.

There is of course room for debate as to when killing is justified. Many reasonable people say state imposed death penalties for duly convicted murderers are justified killings, while many reasonable people say such death penalties are not justified.

One real brain teaser is a situation in which you see a train heading towards two innocent people. If you do nothing, the train will hit the two people and surely kill them. Your only option is to flip a switch which will redirect the course of the train. If you do flip the switch, the train will surely hit and kill one innocent person. You are a conductor working for the railroad line. What do you do?

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint


One real brain teaser is a situation in which you see a train heading towards two innocent people. If you do nothing, the train will hit the two people and surely kill them. Your only option is to flip a switch which will redirect the course of the train. If you do flip the switch, the train will surely hit and kill one innocent person. You are a conductor working for the railroad line. What do you do?

Easy, I'd stop the train if enough time is allotted to do so.

Edit; If I can't stop the train, I will look for another line of work!

[edit on (3/12/1010 by loveguy]