If the USAF has something, it can't be a UFO, if they have it in their possession, and it's not flying. So I don't know what you mean.
Originally posted by Cassius666
reply to post by kidflash2008
According to what we are told the usaf was never able to make the ufos fly
Yes, but they did get the flying saucers to fly a few feet above the ground before abandoning them, but it's an extremely unstable shape aerodynamically:
and the saucer shaped design has been abbandonned.
What video? If there's a video in your post, Kidflash's post or the OP, I'm not seeing it?
Has this video ever been debunked?
Since someone bumped the thread, I have to respond to this.
Originally posted by kidflash2008
2. While there could be radar problems to account for some of these cases, it would be hard pressed to blame faulty radar for all of them. As has been stated before the Cold War was in full swing and radar systems were very well maintained at the time.
So there's no indication of faulty radar in that description, just somewhat unusual natural phenomena the radar responds to exactly as it's designed. Misinterpreting this information would be human error as opposed to faulty radar.
Firsthand observation in the tracking and subsequent motion analysis of 80 of these unidentified targets indicated that a large number of these were actually secondary reflections of the radar beam. Apparently these reflections were produced by isolated refracting areas which traveled with the wind at or near the temperature inversion levels.
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Case in point, the July 1952 Washington DC radar case:
A PRELIMINARY STUDY OF UNIDENTIFIED TARGETS OBSERVED ON AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL RADARS
Firsthand observation in the tracking and subsequent motion analysis of 80 of these unidentified targets indicated that a large number of these were actually secondary reflections of the radar beam. Apparently these reflections were produced by isolated refracting areas which traveled with the wind at or near the temperature inversion levels..
The “official” explanation given at the time was “temperature inversions” on radar. The press accepted it and let the story die. The radar operators knew better, and plainly stated that they were well aware of such things and how they appeared on radar. Also, nevermind the fact that the objects were also sighted visually by pilots (both civilian and military), and the blips confirmed by numerous radar tracking stations, and even photographed! Even Bluebook eventually dismissed the temperature inversion explanation, and the sightings remain listed in the “unknown” category.
UFOs over DC in 1952, Jets Scrambled
Capt. Luis Sanchez Moreno investigating for the Navy, told the press the Navy had been constantly concerned about UFOs since the great wave of global sightings in 1952. Following the sightings by Navy personnel in May 1962, the investigation report released by the Argentine Embassy concluded: "The testimonies of Naval Air Officer pilots and personnel of the Flying Course indicate the existence of abnormal luminous phenomenon."
UFOs over Argentina ~ The Bariloche Incident
Originally posted by karl 12
Arbitrageur,I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the 1952 Washington sightings as 'temperature inversions' -to my mind there's still a lot of unanswered questions. Gazrok makes some very good points in this thread...
"I have interviewed five of the CAA personnel involved in this case and four of the commercial airline pilots involved, I have checked the radiosonde data against well-known radar propagation relations, and I have studied the CAA report subsequently published on this event. Only an extremely lengthy discussion would suffice to present the serious objections to the official explanation that this complex sighting was a result of anomalous radar propagation and refractive anomalies of the mirage type. The refractive index gradient, even after making allowance for instrument lag, was far too low for "ducting" or "trapping" to occur; and, still more significant, the angular elevations of the visually observed unknowns lay far too high for radar- ducting under even the most extreme conditions that have ever been observed in the atmosphere. Some of the pilots, directed by ground radar to look for any airborne objects, saw them at altitudes well above their own flight altitudes, and these objects were maneuvering in wholly unconventional manner. One crew saw one of the unknown luminous objects shoot straight up, and simultaneously the object' s return disappeared from the ARTC scope being watched by the CAA radar operators. The official suggestion that the same weak (1.7"C) low-level "inversion" that was blamed for the radar ducting could produce miraging effects was quantitatively absurd, even if one overlooks the airline-pilot sightings and deals only with the reported ground-visual sightings".
Dr. James E. McDonald, Senior Physicist at the Institute of Atmospheric Physics at the University of Arizona
James McDonald, Statement on UFOs to U.S. House Committee on Science and Aeronatics, 1968 Symposium on UFOs
Originally posted by ArbitrageurIf this was seen from the ground who knows what the pilots could see?
Originally posted by UFO Partisan
Here's a lengthy interview with the already mentioned Al Chop.
And an article about the White House meeting that was prompted by the incident.
More to come on that soon . . . hopefully. There are leads.
"And the guy that the Colonel, that Dewey bought with him, declared that as far as he was concerned, those were real objects up there. No ground clutter or nothing. And the fact that when we had an intercept come in, and those things vanished the very instance that we could see the planes coming in on the radar scope. The minute we saw the beginning of these guys, the UFOs just disappeared. They just left,"
"I mean, the fact that obviously whatever these things were had intelligence enough to get out of the area when they had an intercept going in. They had to be intelligently controlled. About three hours later, when we got the second intercept up, and sent one guy up round the north part of the city, he didn't see anything. But Paterson, down in the other quadrant down here, flew right into the middle of four of them, and he actually said, "They're closing in on me! What shall I do?" Well, what the hell is he going, "what shall I do?" What was I going to tell him? I’m a civilian. I am not going to tell an Air Force pilot to fire at that damn thing or anything! I didn't say anything! Nobody said anything! All of a sudden, these things began to move away from him, and he said, "they’re gone!"
The Amazing Texas UFO Flap Of 1952
The above incident overshadowed the fact that in that same year of 1952, a massive wave of UFO sightings ranged from Japan to Africa and France to Vietnam. In America just about every state in the union experienced UFO sightings. No doubt that authorities tried to keep these events from being widely publicized or from being connected together by broadcasters..
The great state of Texas was witness to a concentrated stream of bizarre aerial sightings that stretched across the entire geographic region and involved all major cities, and Air Force bases as well. Many sightings were also reported in a great number of smaller towns too. Even with perhaps the largest number of reported unknown aerial phenomena in the US, Texas sightings were simply overshadowed by what was happening elsewhere, and how the press corps chose to prioritize its broadcasts to the public.