Doubts about Freemasonry, with all the respect I ask for answers to both freemasons, and other peopl

Originally posted by Szerablyn
1) Are people like Jay Z, Lady Gaga, and such crappy artists part of freemasonry through anyway?

I'm not sure whether or not Jay-Z is a Freemason. In his song "Run This Town" he says "I'm in Maison, uh, Martin Margella" but he also says "We got a banquet for the broads, they got a table for the fellas." On the other hand, he does remind me of Black Freemasons that I've met.

Appareantly the offices of MTV in Canada are situated in a Lodge, is that true?

Yes, MTV Canada broadcasts from a CTV studio, which is located within the Temple of Yonge and Davenport (it's also called "MTV Temple"). Other Canadian shows are filmed there such as Degrassi.

If this is true, I would like to know with all respect, what the hell happened to the craft of some centuries ago? how can you turn from being an organization with people such as Goethe and Mozart, to a thing based in the mere consumism and power on earth?

Freemasonry was infiiltrated by the Illuminati, but the Freemasons won't even admit that much.

2) Perhaps this is part of your secrets, but is there really a relation between you and what could happen in 2012?

I can't personally forsee anything drastic happening in 2012 except for an astrological event (transiting Neptune goes into Pisces). Interesting things have happened during past astrological events, so let's see.

3) Are there both white and black lodges? I ask this because for me there seems to be many contradictory stuff in your teachings. I'll put it in a brief example recurring again to "gods" such as Goethe and Mozart:

In the late 1700's Prince Hall was ordered to create African Lodge #1, which was the first lodge of what is now called Prince Hall Freemasonry. This was done mostly so that the American Army would have Black troops for a future war (this was right after the Amerian Revolution had ended, I think). For 200 years, Prince Hall Freemasonry was considered "irregular" and regular Masons could not sit in tiled a Prince Hall lodge. For the first few years, Prince Hall Masons could not even learn the rituals. It wasn't until 1990 that most US Grand Lodges recognized Prince Hall Freemasonry, and some still haven't to this day.

Historically, only white men could join regular Masonic lodges. It's only since maybe the 1960's that minorities were allowed, and only into the Scottish Rite. Even today, many lodges in the Southern Jurisdiction of the US explicitly ban non-white males.

4) Last but not least, I would like to know if Freemasonry is declining right now? You were the promoters of the "Enlightenment", the State of Right rather than the Divine one, and basically gave the bases to the "Modernity". However, now that we're in a global crisis were people are trying to create a Posmoderniity, all of these masonic values of freedom, equity, and fraternity seem to dissapear.

A lot of Masonic ideas don't work in practice, such as communism and the public education system. Many people believe that this is more the result of a conspiracy then a failing of sincere ideals.




[edit on 7-3-2010 by vcwxvwligen]

Originally posted by Sparkey76
AugustusMasonicus, I already stated I knew the dates of when both was formed, it seems your being quite carful what you say here and only giving part an answer.

That is basically what it boils down to, one is new and the other is not, although it attempts postulate that it is much older. There is a good article at Masonicinfo that disects the details.

The Grand Lodge of All England was not founded in 2005.
It was refounded in 2005.

taken from the website.

Read the article. The current Grand Lodge of all England is quite new.

Since you were polite, I'll answer:

1: There are many known masons within the entertainment biz, so it's perfectly possible that Jay-Z is a member. I don't know where "Lady Gaga" comes in as there is no way whatsoever that she could become a free mason or be recognized as such within the United States of America because she is a woman. While themes and symbolism do pop up in media, this is the result of the statistically disproportionate number of creative, free thinking people who happen to gravitate towards subjects of study like history, religion, mythology, and in some cases the occult and who also happen to produce a disproportionate amount of the world's art, cinema, novels, music and video games by virtue of their inherent creativity.
2: I don't know what you think is going to happen in 2012, but no.
3: If you mean "white and black" as in "good and evil" as I think you do, then no. All lodges are quite uniform with the exception of regional and linguistic variations and whatnot. Like all human institutions, there will be both admirable and loathsome individuals within because human beings are imperfect. There are also no multiple deities within free-masonry as true poly-theist beliefs are completely incompatible with the masonic system. I think your confusing yourself a bit by attempting to use conventional definitions to understand principals which were designed to defy the understanding of anyone who tried to interpret based upon the standard literal definition thereof. Albert Pike has been misquoted and maligned by various conspiracy theorists, however, by 19th century standards I daresay his work actually has quite a liberal humanist streak within it even though he was also quite personally imperfect. I recommend you re-read his works carefully and research definition and interpretation this time.

Regarding your question of "what happened" between the masons of the enlightenment era past, for whom you profess admiration, and the masons of today, I daresay there was far greater interest in the occult and esoteric among the brethren of the past enlightenment age then there is among modern Freemasons. There is no practice of the "left hand path" within the modern fraternity whatsoever, and if anything I believe the fraternity has become far more Judeo-Christian, conservative, and socially focused than in previous eras, reflecting a shift in the social demographics of the membership during the 19th and 20th centuries. Anyone who believes that the fraternity has undergone some type of shift to the "dark side of the force" is seeking to spread fear and hatred among the uninformed and disenfranchised. Remember that "occult" basically means "knowledge of the hidden", but just because knowledge is "hidden" does not mean that it is inherently sinister. The socially and spiritually enlightened messages within great works of the past age which you referenced are derived from the occult and were often created by practicing occultists. If your suspicious of this alien-seeming rhelm of spirituality and philosophy, just trust in the fact that humans basically desire to go good, though we are, again, imperfect beings, and have faith in the judgement of those great minds of the past.

4: The past few decades have not been kind to civic organizations across the board, and I entirely agree with your last point and applaud your appraisal of our societal situation. We all exist in a highly materialistic, stratified, post-industrial society in which the ideas of "liberty, equality and fraternity" have been discarded. However, the future is unwritten, and it remains in the hands of the young to determine the fate of our world and it's peoples.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Oh, Thank you for the link By the way, it was an interesting read and its always good to get other view points on subjects like this.

Hey Network dude, since we're on topic... thanks for talking to emsed1 for me about becoming a mason.

I attended a Lodge this past Tuesday and now am working to become an initiate here in Chicago.

As far as symbolism in movies and these music videos... Of course they are going to throw symbolism in there...
Lady Gaga isn't a Freemason, but the director may be and thought it would be a great idea to throw some symbols in the videos and pictures.

reply to post by VinnyboyXI


Good deal. I am glad he could help. And I am glad I could help. Please keep us informed on your progression.
Have a great day.

Thank you for the information provided. It helps to have a much clearer view about freemasonry in general.

One more thing, as you told me there have been many philosophies created/inspired by freemasons, like communism. If Reagan was a freemason, then why did he create the "star wars" politics in order to defeat the soviets?

As one of you said, I'm really a deep admirer of people such as Mozart and Goethe, the world would be a better place nonetheless with freemasons like them instead of ones such as JayZ (in case he is).

It's understandable that the freemasons of the enlightenment era were much more into aspects of the Occult and esoterism to be concrete, studying these areas during whole life served them as a tool to understand much more the structure of the universe, contemplating the dualism of our material life and how later on it ends. While probably the so called "pop artists" that use these symbols in the music nowdays, don't have a clue about the concept each single symbol posseses.

I write to you with a big feeling of respect not because I feel myself inferior to you, but just because everyone deserves to be treated with respect and that anyway it's admirable to find people out there that join freemasonry not because of the social influence it could bring being a member, but simply because they're searching for a spiritual path and the motivation grows from the bottom of the heart. Considering that nowdays most of the people only care and believe of our material life.

Take care all of you, and thanks for the information provided!

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Szerablyn]

Originally posted by Szerablyn
One more thing, as you told me there have been many philosophies created/inspired by freemasons, like communism. If Reagan was a freemason, then why did he create the "star wars" politics in order to defeat the soviets?

Reagan wasn't a Mason, and I doubt very much that Masonry inspired communism... Marx, Stalin, Lenin, etc. were all atheists, and thus would never be allowed in a Masonic lodge...

So is "vcwxvwligen" wrong when he says that communism is a freemason idea?

It causes me to wonder the relation between atheism and freemasonry, because even if you don't believe me, I know a 33th degree Freemason here in my city that proclaims himself atheist. If believing in a God is a requirement to join, then how's it possible?

I beg to differ. There are Freemasons on the Internet who complain that American Freemasonry is declining in terms for formality and adherence to tradition.

It is my opinion that Masonry is declining as well. However, I also believe that the unusually high spike in membership after World War 2 due to men trying to find a replacement for that close bond that they developed in the military in war-time.

After that, the baby boomers shunned what they're parents were doing in the 60s and 70s, so Masonry lost some popularity. It was a "square" thing to do. The veteran generation wasn't replace with an equal number of subsequent Masons. Masonry in my opinion is having to be rediscovered so to speak by the general public.

I believe things are settling down to a more normalized level at this point. So while it is in decline, it's only declining because it was unusually high to start with.

Originally posted by Szerablyn
So is "vcwxvwligen" wrong when he says that communism is a freemason idea?

vcwxvwligen is wrong about most, if not all of his assertions about Freemasonry. I added him to my ignore list a long time ago, because he really has nothing of value to add to the discussion here, in my opinion.

It causes me to wonder the relation between atheism and freemasonry, because even if you don't believe me, I know a 33th degree Freemason here in my city that proclaims himself atheist. If believing in a God is a requirement to join, then how's it possible?

I would ask, is he REALLY a 33°, or just claiming to be one? That said, even if he is, he may have lied to get in. Nothing we can do to stop that, but it would be surprising if he put up with us long enough to get the 33° (it takes a minimum of 8 years as a Mason to be eligible for that honor, and many who become 33° don't receive that honor until they've been in the fraternity 16-20 years or more...)

The guy really is a 33° degree freemason. Has been part of it for more than 20 years, and is one of the most important members of freemasonry in my country in general, concerning the administration of the lodge.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Szerablyn]

reply to post by Szerablyn


Which country would that be, out of curiosity? I wasn't aware of 33° Scottish Rite systems outside of the US, though there may be some. I may be mistaken, but I believe the Scottish Rite system (which actually has French origins, despite the name) only has 18 degrees in England, for instance.

Originally posted by Szerablyn
So is "vcwxvwligen" wrong when he says that communism is a freemason idea?

It causes me to wonder the relation between atheism and freemasonry, because even if you don't believe me, I know a 33th degree Freemason here in my city that proclaims himself atheist. If believing in a God is a requirement to join, then how's it possible?

It is most certainly impossible, unless he is no longer a Mason. All of his Obligations specifically say that no Atheist can ever be made a Mason.

Also, FreeMasonry is the mother of Democracy, but it certainly has no Communist or Socialist connections, except for the Virtue of Charity. We do hold that Virtue most sacred, and we will come to the relief of any member of the Human fraternity upon request and to the best of our abilities!

Also, 33 degree is an honorary degree. There is no way to attain it without earning the respect of your brethren through a lifetime of service. Anyone, even if they lied about their beliefs, or changed their mind after some years, anyone with any Athiest beliefs would be vetted out long before attaining the 33 degree.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Szerablyn]

reply to post by Szerablyn

Perhaps so. But if an atheist, unworthy as a Mason. As well as a dishonest person and a total fraud. The local Grand Lodge should see to disbar any such individual. Not an asset, but a blemish on a proud fraternity.. As I said, IF. And, if this person exists. Its not hard to search 33rd degree members. We have the internet.

Well, perhaps his atheism is something recent, I don't really know. Anyway in my opinion if the fellow freemasons had a problem with his way of thinking he would had been banned long ago, afterall it's not like those declarations were made privately.

Well, anyway thanks for the information provided by you all.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Szerablyn]

Originally posted by Szerablyn
Well, perhaps his atheism is something recent, I don't really know. Anyway in my opinion if the fellow freemasons had a problem with his way of thinking he would had been banned long ago, afterall it's not like those declarations were made privately.

Well, anyway thanks for the information provided by you all.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Szerablyn]

He would have been banned if he were ever honest (or if ever a Mason). Dont hide on the internet. If a 33rd has denounced a belief in God, it should be well known . What are your resources for this info. If you misunderstand it, it never happened.