The Tainted Word of God

reply to post by wylekat

Where can an average yahoo like myself find all these 'lost' books in a paper form? I'd like to see if this stuff actually makes more sense to me than what I have been presented with.

Wylecat is that you? Are you for real? If you are willing to reapproach with an open mind. The book of Enoch is quite an adventure to start out with and at the same time it will push the boundaries of what you are ready
to believe about 'fanciful fairytales". It's a great piece of ancient literature.
All you have to do is appreciate ancient literature and you like it.
And yes You can read it right hear on line.


One last thing ,their are very gifted people who can and do make sense of anything you can ask I hope you develop a thirst and seek the answers to any questions that may come. Give it a shot man. You never know.

Cheers to you

[edit on 28-2-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by NightGypsy


You forgot the biggest one.
You shall not worship any other god then your god the lord god.
Yet they worship Jesus. Like he is god.

I agree with all your points.

I'm however not questioning the source but how it is interpreted.
I believe there is much wisdom to be found in the bible.
Only where ?

A story would not exist for so long if there ws not some truth in it IMO.


Reply to Autowrench.

My posts are meant to make the Christians question their faith, and look beyond their precious book. It is true there is a great deal of blood on Christianity's hands, but that is for them to settle.

As do mine well... I intend them to be.
The blood is no issue in my eyes. But of our ancestors.

Thank you both for sharing !

reply to post by Dasher


Well I was referring to our ( mankind ) own duality.
I believe the concept of duality is created but is in fact one.

Just like yin and yang or good and evil.

I'm not sure I can agree with you on the rest. I'm gonna think about it for a while.

Thank you

One thing I've learned, from my own experience, as well as from other people - is that the Bible won't become clear to anyone who picks it up, flips through it and says "Hogwash" - or sifts through it for the sole purpose of finding anything that resembles a contradiction.

You can laugh, debunk or ridicule this if you want, but the Bible, i.e. The Word, The Scriptures, is not your ordinary literary book. I've listened to enough people, and proved this to myself as well, God will not open anyone's minds/eyes in order TO understand His Word, unless He knows their heart is sincerely seeking Him.

To me, it is a "supernatural" book - meaning, God has total control over who He allows to gain understanding, and who He doesn't.

When I was younger, and living life in the fun lane, I had no time for God or His Bible. But when confronted with my lifestyle, or to (try to) prove a point, I would pick it up and flip through it, read a bit here, a bit there, trying to prove to myself that it was just too hard to understand, the words were in another language that I just couldn't grasp, blah blah blah.

BUT when I sincerely wanted to finally pick it up to seriously, and sincerely, try to understand it - the words were somehow not all that confusing. Was I not paying enough attention before? Was I allowing my mind to be intentionally "bored" with the words or message on the pages? Dunno - all I know is that now when I read the Bible, I sit and think "Dag, that is so clear - why didn't I get that before?".

The only thing I can come up with is that God is in control of how much He wants us to know, and when He wants us to know it. I was not ready to understand when I was younger, and truthfully, I didn't want to understand - too many rules that would hold me accountable for my lifestyle and behavior. But God knew I wasn't ready - that's my point.

Just a thought.

reply to post by randyvs


believe it or not, This makes total sense to me. there being hidden/ edited out books that dont show the whole story. Look how the edited versions turn people. Churches.

I am going to look into these other books as time allows. I am betting I'll find out a great deal of answers. This will probably explain also my complete lack of 'faith', getting any prayers answered, ect.

Also explains why certain people are bound and determined to bring about
the biblical 'end'.... Some are doing it for gold- some are doing it because what better a way to completely crush an entire block of people than to watch some 'prophecies' come true- But the ones of their rescuer don't- and after screaming, praying and begging...

reply to post by nomorecruelty


If I may ask ?

Will you be so kind and tell why you for the first time get your bible and understand what it said ?
Like a feeling or a situation ?

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


No worries. Thank you for the civilized exchange.
Cheers!

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


I was raised, and have always been a believer in God, and in the Bible - but I used the excuse of "aww too hard to understand" as a way to avoid having to follow God's laws for us.
I kept telling myself I was a "good" person, didn't steal, or kill, blah blah blah. But I wasn't even trying to understand the Bible - just kept avoiding it because it was rules that directly cut into my lifestyle and behaviors. I.e. sin.

What God used to finally get my attention, believe it or not? 2012 - lol yep, believe it or not.

I started reading about that, actually about a year ago, HERE ON ATS no doubt, and my mouth dropped - I started researching and researching and the more I read the more I knew I had been living on borrowed time as far as trying to SINCERELY live a Godly life. So I got busy and am still playing catchup to be honest.

But my point being, the words aren't that difficult to understand - it's almost like it's easier for me now than it was before. I dunno, it still has me baffled to be honest.


But now, I have given up any/all of my previous lifestyle sins - with the exception of ciggies - I'm still smoking and still struggling with ....... does the Bible say it's a sin? lololol
It does say not to defile your body as it is a temple of God - yes, I have a tattoo also from my earlier years - so no, while not perfect, and never will be, I do my very best now to follow the life God wants for me to live.

I am going to look into these other books as time allows. I am betting I'll find out a great deal of answers. This will probably explain also my complete lack of 'faith', getting any prayers answered, ect.

reply to post by wylekat


You know, you are free to believe, what ever you want in this life. Not
everyone down through time, has even been that fortunate. I only mention
this, because I know of your bitter opposition to say, what I believe.
I also know the wrongs in life you feel have been dealt to you. While
they're enough cause for most to feel the absolute contempt for anyone
responsible for this life of hell. There are those who carry right on thru
and never even blink an eye at their faith in God.
Wylecat I have to stop short on this and I really hate to because I have so much more to say to you. Not to try and convince you or win you over or anything like that. Only because I know you are hurting inside bigtime.
If I can feel that. On my kids eyes, God feels it to and he didn't want things to be this way. We chose everything bad that has happened in your life. Us not him.
I hope to talk to you again soon. God is like a boomerang.

U2U me. anytime.


[edit on 28-2-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


One thing that I know helps - is to pray and ask God for understanding, before you start reading - He will open up your eyes to what He wants you to read, and understand.

God works differently, and in different time frames with everyone - or that's my observation on it anyhow. That's why as the end days keep passing, He will be showing us more and more 'signs' of His existence, and arrival after the antichrist appears - when He will destroy all evil from the face of the planet.

When I was little I used to think that Heaven was in the clouds - but after reading the Bible, I now know it will be on earth - like the Tracy Chapman song, "Heaven's Here on Earth".

BUT our precious lit'l planet, once Jesus returns, will undergo an extreme "sandblasting", let's say - to destroy all evil and make it clean again.

An industrial cleaning more or less.
I.e. crash helmet strap on time

reply to post by nomorecruelty


I feel happy for you, you found your faith.

I would like to say I'm with you on this but I'm on a entirely different road then you are.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience

reply to post by wylekat

Where can an average yahoo like myself find all these 'lost' books in a paper form? I'd like to

Here's some some interesting commentaries on the gospels

Regardless of some previous posters claims that, god sort of whittled out what he didn't want in the bibles, so the bibles only contain truth and what was left over is irrelevant.

It would appear that indeed there was a conspiracy to eradicate jesus the jew and create a deity.

Having a jesus that was married with children simply would not be conducive to the new religion of Paul/Saul (and some would claim Josephus).

The majority of xtians simply do not want to hear anything that would cast doubt on their beliefs and very few would investigate any further than the face value of what they are told to believe about the bibles.

Her's a nice passage from Thomas and for all intents and purposes it's a fair description of Jesus having a gay romp with a boy, bearing in mind that xtians claim that much of the gospels are metaphor and have to be deciphered. As to who is the final arbiter on the real meaning is anybodies guess so perhaps it's up to the individual.

The young man looked at him intently and loved him; and he began pleading with him that he might be with him. When they came out of the tomb they went to the young man's house, for he was wealthy. And after six days Jesus gave him a command. And when it was evening the young man came to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. He stayed with him that night, for Jesus was teaching him the mystery of the Kingdom of God.

Indeed this does look like a fair description of a gay pajama party, no wonder the editors of the bibles didn't want you to hear about it. After all you were told that the man (jesus) at the age of 30ish didn't have a wife or G/F his mother was impregnated by an invisible man, wow Ted Haggard would have loved this guy.

What is most interesting is that, xtians will perform cranial gymnastics trying to explain away this sort of stuff. What is very telling is that when points out that there is no evidence of jesus existing other than the bible, christians never point to the Gnostic gospels to add weight to their case, I wonder why ?





Here's some some interesting commentaries on the gospels -

The Jesus Dynasty: Stunning New Evidence About the Hidden History of Jesus (Paperback)
by James D. Tabor (Author)
Paperback: 464 pages
Publisher: Harper Element (4 Jun 2007)
Language English
ISBN-10: 0007220596


Gnostic Gospels (Paperback)
by Elaine Pagels (Author)
Paperback: 192 pages
Publisher: Phoenix; New Ed edition (6 April 2006)
Language English
ISBN-10: 0753821141

Quite a good read


The Copper Scroll Decoded: (Hardcover)
by Robert Feather (Author)
Hardcover: 350 pages
Publisher: Thorsons; First Edition edition (7 Jun 1999)
Language English
ISBN-10: 0722538022

reply to post by wylekat

This will probably explain also my complete lack of 'faith', getting any prayers answered, ect.

Probably because the jesus god man invented by the christian church is imaginary, imaginary beings do not answer prayers . Nothing to do with lack of faith my friend you simply observed the obvious and had the guts to ask yourself why you believe such nonsense without evidence.

You've been lied to all your life, that's hard to swallow I know and like previous posters have mentioned can hurt or turn your guts inside out it may well leave you with feelings of no hope or disjointedness.

Before you get back on your knees and try and justify to yourself how it's a good thing that man in the sky wants to keep you in a trailer until he doesn't.Ask yourself, "Am I really searching for truth or am I just waiting for someone to tell me what I want to hear"

If in ten years time your still lonely in a trailer, will you be back here again trying to find out what the magic words are for getting jesus to give you a hand up? Will you still be blaming yourself for the lies that you have been drip fed for years ?

It is possible to live a happy life without all this superstition you know, sh## does sometimes happen along the way unfortunately and you seem to have your fair share of it sadly.

Does sh~~ happen to the godless more than the pious ? Absolutely NO ! I have yet to meet a christian who is living a life that would inspire me to swap roles with him more than any other man.

TextWhy is it do you think that it would choose to play hide and seek with what it created ?

reply to post by moocowman


Perspective, I suppose.

God (If god exists) isn't playing hide and seek perhaps because he knows

ultimately

my search for him is for more meaningful than having it simply told to me?




[edit on 1-3-2010 by smyleegrl]

I noted there has been a great deal of suggestions and commentary on how and why things have been done in the structuring of the "Bible" and some ideas as to why this or that was Omitted, but I personally think we are missing the point.

No one asked, but here's my two (2) Cents on the subject.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
I feel I've been at the receiving side of a thousands of years old deception !

My advice is Keep It Simple Stupid or K.I.S.S.

Here is really all you will ever require to inorder to get a sense that the message is "NOT" lost in the Translations.

1) King James 1611
2) Strongs Exhaustive Concordance

1) You can use the Online Edition of the King James 1611 Bible online because it is a verified COPY of the Original Text, and contains information written to YOU by the Translators that has since been eliminated in from more current Bible Translations.

The Following leads to the Main Index of on such Online Edition
1611 King James Bible

Now some may indicate there are better TRANSLATIONS to utilize, but the problem remains. They are Translations, and as such, MAY infact be furthering the Misconceptions and Deceptions based upon personal views of the New and Improved Translators.

The 1611 is more than enough for Anyone wishing to read the Bible.

2) Now this becomes a little harder to obtain, but I suggest you need the PHYSICAL Strongs Exhaustive Concordance, for two reasons.

a: It is a Exhaustive Concordance of the 1611 Bible exclusively. IT doesn't apply to ANY OTHER TRANSLATION. It covers both the Chaldean/Hebrew and Greek.

b: It also has another use, and that is verifing words from the Original Text with a Word Search feature that shows ALL of the varied applications of the English word and how it was applied to alternative Hebrew and Greek words.

In MANY cases one English Word has been used to translate 3 or 4 words in Hebrew which may infact have several alternative meanings.

In this area, the English word is listed and noted in each Chapter and Verse, along with the the "Numbered" Chaldean/Hebrew or Greek Words.

It is a good thing to also review those "other" applications and see how those meanings effect the message.

Failing this you can use the Online Versions, which do not have this second feature, as a "make do" measure, until you find a Physical Copy of the Strongs Exhaustive Concordance.

( Do not utilize anything other than a Strong's Concordance. Strongs for the STRONG, or so a wise guy once said )

Here's a Link to one such Online Lexicon Version, but remember, this is only 1/2 of what a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance is and will NEVER replace the Physical Copy.
Strongs Lexicon Word Search

Now, your ready and prepared to STUDY and let the WORD of GOD become the Letter to You GOD had intended when he used man, (be it the original scribe noting the traditional teachings of Moses, or John the Revelator or Luke who actually wrote most of the New Testament. [He wrote all of the works attributed to Saul/Paul], or the Translators of the 1611 Version), and inspired those works into the threefold message we have today.

And there is really nothing else in print that is anything like the Bible.

It is a Historical Text.
It is a Prophetic Text.
It is a Spiritual Text.



Now, that that is done, here are some other things to always remember.

1) There are only TWO entities that will ever comprehend the Bible better than we can or as GOD intended.

One, the Accuser, who tempted the other with Misquotes of Scriptures in a vian attempt to seduce the other into doing what the Accuser once did.

The Other is the LIVING WORD of GOD personified in Christ Himself.

Christ and Satan know the Scriptures better than any can every hope to.

2) The Bible is actually TWO things

The Old Testament is actually the WORD of GOD devinely inspired or Scriptures

The New Testament is the "Teachings of Christ", with the exception of John, the Revelators contribution which falls back into the devinely inspired coluum.

3) NO CHURCH or RELIGEOUS SECT seems interested in TEACHING the Word of GOD, or the Teachings of Christ verbatum. They will always pick and choose a Verse here or there to manipulate the message to be in accordance to the Doctrines, Dogmas and Theologies that are the basic tenets of the perticular sect/cult. Jesus Saves, Nothing else Matters, Pay your Tithes. Keeping the Sheep Stupid, is not the K.I.S.S. method, unless of course your the Vatican, and your store houses are spewing and reeking of Wealth beyond comprehension. (Sorry, my bad)

Well that's about it.

Get to work and stop feeling decieved. It is YOUR choice afterall to remain that way.

Ciao

Shane

The Bible, is of course, primarily a western tool. But the phenomenon of scam has been used perpetually. Much newer religions than Christianity have come along and numerous fake branches spring up the moment the founder dies. The same scams, cons you can see in the "Criminals Justice System" are the same you find in "Religion". There is a desperation in people to make a living and belong irregardless of justice or truth.

I once has an anti-tax thread on ATS showing it to be illegal and yet most people, even on ATS, rationalized taxes are needed. Which means supporting criminal activity.

I was listening to an internet radio program last night and a lady was saying she was lecturing to a very pro-positive change group, some years back, and pointing out that some 50 billion(?) was being funneled annually by the uSA to support various corruptions like drugs. She asked this audience if they could push a button to stop it, how many would? Of the 100+ people in the pro-positive change audience, only 1 raised their hand. The rest said no because it would impact their retirement fund! Here's the crux of the problem, people and their self interest. Corruption exists soley because people are dependent. Scams succeed because people are naive and become dependent by peer pressure, image, economic leverage, etc.. Basically people aren't "sincere" just self-interested.

There's no shortage of people in the social religion game that know it's a fake and stick to it. There was a Catholic Pope busy in an affair with beautiful women. His close associates nicknamed her the "Bride of God" as a joke. Did they resign? Change faith? Openly expose the corruption? No. During the period buying indulgences, many a Catholic leader must have laughed themselves silly think at how they suckered the people. This is half of the problem with the NWO movement. They probably can't believe what they've been allowed to get away with over the hundreds of years. They took an inch, then a yard, then a mile, then more and people just ignore, or accept it knowing it's wrong.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


To begin with, Adam and Eve were the parents of the Jewish. The first book of the old testament even recognizes that there were more than just two people on the earth (Genesis 1:27). Then came the father of the Jews, Adam (Genesis 2:7). The entire old testament is written by Jews for the Jewish, the "chosen" people. The new testament has books written by people who had formed new religions. Romans had pretty much taken over and the Jewish leaders were sucking up to the conquerors. If you compare the new testament to Greek and Roman mythology you may discover a huge coincidence.

The deception occured when parts of the Jewish religion was combined with parts of the new Gnostic religion to create a Christian religion. You already learned that the bible is many books, but what you may not know is that it is a canon, only the approved religious texts were included.

"Duane Christensen, in the October 1998 issue of Bible Review, listed twenty-three referenced books that have been lost in antiquity (14[5]:29), to which we can add seven additional works mentioned in the Bible. Such compositions as the Book of Jashar (Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18), the Acts of Gad the Seer (1 Chronicles 29:29), and Paul’s previous Corinthian letter (see 1 Corinthians 5:9) are among the thirty cited works—twenty-eight from the Old Testament era, and two from the New Testament era—that are not included in the canon of Scripture, and that are missing from secular history. The contents of these books are known only by the fact that they are cited or quoted." (Retrieved from www.apologeticspress.org...).

That is not the best part. The promotion of hell did not come from the bible, it actually came from 14th century epic poem Divine Comedy, written by Dante.

The apocrypha can be found online here

I am following this thread with interest. I was raised in a very secular Jewish household. My mother never went to shul, neither did my grandparents- yet they paid an absurd amount of money to send me to a private Hebrew school. I was taught by orthodox teachers and was drilled and steeped in OT in Hebrew and English. we were taught Jesus was a prophet, but not the Messiah. Eliyahu was who we Jews were waiting for.

I also learned that as my last name was Cohen, I apparently was not allowed to enter the Jewish cemetery where we buried our battered holy books. All of this was interesting, and I wanted to know more. My interest began to fade when i was informed that I should not be close or friend with a Gentile, as it would "taint" me, and my path. My WASP stepfather thought that was a silly as I did. I stopped going to shul after my obligatory bat mitzvah- which was basically a big expensive show for my grandparents to impress their wealthy friends.

But I took what I learned and brought it with me into my own "heretical" studies. I applied my knowledge of the Hebrew language and stories in my research of paganism, catholicism, Christianity as a whole and New testament studies. I have been converted to all of them at some point or another. What is always amusing to me is my transformation for paganism to catholicism. It was a simple conversion- as they are the same. Names changed to protect the "innocent".

My final determination of personal values and intellect has led me to become an agnostic. All because of the fact that no matter how hard I studied. No matter all the apocryphal books and sacred ancient texts and gnostic teachings I read- I still end up with the same question.

Who is right? Which religion is the RIGHT religion? The answer is that none of them are. Religion is not faith. Religion is a lifestyle, and that is different for everyone.

Take all varieties of religious doctrine and tenets and at the end of the day they are really all the same. Those touting that their religion is the correct one are really just sad.

Yes you CAN weed out the parts you don't agree with and keep the others without being damned! All holy books are still just books- transcribed by men who are just as fallible as we are. People wrote these books with the same biases and perspectives we have today- and they are all different. Sure- they can say they were told by God- but in what language? Theirs? great-- except that all languages and the words used in them have different meanings- so which is correct? The INTENT may be there, but to ascribe absolute authority to words that humans have written is really foolish.

Take the morals taught, take the examples of leading a good life, take the fact that there is something greater than we mere mortals- and leave the rest for those who are not strong enough to be guided internally. They need the words written, but not everyone does.

reply to post by cjcord


One thing to remember about "religion" is that it was/is mankind that created the gazillions of "religions" that are out there.

The (Authorized) 1611 King James Bible is the Bible - it is the only one that is authorized to be called "The Bible".

From that, mankind, as usual, started trying to recreate/rewrite The Bible to make things more "comfy" for his (mankind's) sins and lifestyles.

The result is just what you read on threads like this - people scratching their heads asking "Why are there so many religions out here?". And thus, society now goes around blaming God for all the religions, when it has been mankind who is responsible.

Just keep in mind, God isn't a "religion" - He is the Almighty God, Jesus Christ, The Holy Ghost, Our Creator - period. "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and Earth.......".

Anything after is mankind's revamped and rewritten PERversions of the Holy Scriptures.

Proof of this, version by version by version (of mankinds) can be compared HERE - this website has all of the popular "bibles" side by side and shows you, in detail, exactly what verses have been removed from the KJ, which words have been removed, and in some cases, yep, which entire chapters have been removed.

Mankind is doing what mankind is known for - screwing things up. The King James Bible is no different. Man doesn't want rules and laws that interfere in his life (sins) so that is why you have umpteen "bibles" out there, all compliments of "man".

There is even a Gay/Lesbian "bible" out now - their ads promise that YOU too can be gay and not feel guilty.

How can they claim this? Like everyone else tries to - they are either misquoting the Scripture, or they are quoting from a secular written "book".

Their website claims:

You CAN be gay and a Christian! No guilt involved!

You CAN be sure the Scriptures say nothing against homosexuality at all!

You CAN live the life you were meant to lead.

When in fact, the original Scriptures most certainly does state that homosexuality is a sin -
But this man/woman written "bible" is typical of the rest of the books out there that are attempting to make us believe that it's ok to sin, the Bible really doesn't say that, etc.
Satan is not stupid - he knows just how to create doubt and confusion in us, and this tactic is an old one but it seems that satan is reviving it for this new generation. Sadly, millions are following along like blind lit'l sheep.

Hence, the 'mega feel good cotton candy' churches out there now, and popping up every day. The secular society, and secular Christians, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE these kinds of churches - know why? Because in those kind of churches they teach that we are to be socially tolerant of sin, be it homosexuality, prostitution, bestiality, etc. I.e. society is being brainwashed to believe that we should welcome the sin into our society with open arms. The secular people, secular Christians included, can go to "church" now and be given the "Live Your Best Life Now" pep talk - I'm surprised they don't hand out pom poms to all at the door.

This is NOT in line with what the Bible says. You love the sinner, hate the sin - you don't allow our marriage laws to change JUST to pacify the homosexual community, or the NAMBLA members - you go to church for salvation and to learn, FROM the Bible, how to live a Godly life. NOT how to get around the rules by avoiding or rewriting them. Don't like the real Bible? Hey, no problem, we'll just teach/preach from the NIV or the NEW King James Version - it's watered down and isn't so full of rules and laws. (rolling eyes here)

And no, I'm not picking just on the homosexual community because the prostitution, bestiality community, as well as orgs like NAMBLA, have been making noise, as well, about their rights to be "socially" and legally accepted.

Satan has the majority of our human population by the eh, testicles - are most of us even aware of the person's background that is currently the "Safe School Czar" in our govt? From the online news articles, is a strong supporter of NAMBLA. If you aren't familiar with that org, Google them - you just might be surprised who now has a say so over what your child is being "taught" in school.

Do your research - and start standing up for what you KNOW is right and stop listening to these 'selfish' communities that are trying their best to get you to accept them as a normal part of society, all because "they" don't want to feel guilty about what they are doing.

Pray for them, yes.
Socially/legally accept them, no.




[edit on 1-3-2010 by nomorecruelty]

reply to post by Shane


Excellent post, my friend !