War Game Shows Dangers of Attacking Iran

Wha? Title says "War Game Shows Dangers of Attacking Iran", and I get like 7 or 8 pages of people arguing over daisy cutters?




This is one of many reasons why we need the ability to ignore more than 10 people on ATS.

Anyway, on to the subject of WAR GAMES, it's all a wash to me. Once you get in the battle, many things can happen. Remember Murphy's law-If the crap can go wrong, it will. I don't think we can accurately say what's going to happen. I do remember the neo-cons and army chair generals saying we wouldn't be in Iraq long. And oh yea, we won the Iraq war? Sure, if all that counted was getting Saddam out. In terms of stability, I'm not seeing that. There's no promise that government will be able to sustain itself without our involvement.

reply to post by antonia


I agree with you in both regards.

Iraq was actually number 5 on the failed nations list in 2008 and only moved up to the number 6 slot in 2009.

So basically there are only 5 nations in worse shape than Iraq from a stability standpoint.

That doesn't say much for our 7 years of occupation and the trillions of dollars spent in the Government/military and private contractor segment over there.

Its almost as if someone is trying to purposefully bankrupt us with these wars.

No wonder some people would prefer to talk about Daisy Cutters instead!

Thanks for posting on Topic!

In case anyone really wants the facts this is from the Fund For World Peace a Carnegie Mellon funded group using British Standards for prosperity, stability, infrastructure, etc. ect.,

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b30d36eed728.jpg[/atsimg]

This is 2008 and as you can see Iraq is no 5 on the list of failed states and amazingly Afghanistan is ahead of it at no 7.

Only Somalia which has no government at all, Sudan, Zimbabwe and Chad are worse off than Iraq!

Add the D.R. Congo and then you have Afghanistan.

So for all those people who claim the people of these nations are better off after hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths and trillions of dollars of damage to their infrastructures I would love to know where you are imagining that they are better off because according to every known index standard they aren’t.

Amazingly pre-earthquake Haiti the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere was at no. 14, or roughly twice as desirable as Afghanistan or nearly three times more desirable than Iraq!

Currently Iran is ranked as 49 on the list and dollars to donuts says it would plummet like a rock with an American invasion.

People really need to stop lying to them selves about these wars (and daisy cutters too) they kill and maim and destroy and these nations are far worse off than when we invaded them.

Yes governments are gone that we didn’t like but the puppet governments we have installed beholden to Washington Lawmakers and funding and U.S. and other Coalition Nation’s corporations don’t even function close to on par with the regimes we ‘saved’ these people from.

When you consider the American loss of life and dollars in prosecuting these wars, well, in my humble opinion we are either a nation of totally misinformed and supremely ignorant citizens or we are just cold and heartless.

While most of us look for comfortable lies to absolve ourselves of any responsibility for the destruction of these nations and the abysmal circumstances the citizens of them now have to live in, the people there do in fact have to live in them and with what we have done.

Too bad they don’t get the luxury to lie to themselves about it!

reply to post by COOL HAND


Ok i'm way late in responding to this but I guess I forgot they always cover aircraft shelters in fifty or more feet in dirt. Sorry my mistake. The kerosene smell in there must be awful.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The Neturei Kata is a MINORITY sect among the Ultra-Orthodox. The Chabad Lubavitch Ultra-Orthodox serve in the Israeli Defence Forces to fulfill the Mitzvot To Do the work of the Mishkan. That was given at Mount Sinai BEFORE the Israelites re-entered their ancestral home: ISRAEL! The Neturei Kata are Religious Zionists. They follow the ancient Zionism ideals not the modern,secular Zionism. Your words prove you know nothing about Zionism and a lot about being an ANTI-SEMITE!!!!

Originally posted by antonia
Wha? Title says "War Game Shows Dangers of Attacking Iran", and I get like 7 or 8 pages of people arguing over daisy cutters?




This is one of many reasons why we need the ability to ignore more than 10 people on ATS.

Actually it was very critical and telling...

If Proto couldn't get the facts right on such a small matter. [Relying on Memory] Who can take his position seriously on larger, much more complicated issues?

I do remember the neo-cons and army chair generals saying we wouldn't be in Iraq long. And oh yea, we won the Iraq war? Sure, if all that counted was getting Saddam out. In terms of stability, I'm not seeing that. There's no promise that government will be able to sustain itself without our involvement.

[Arm-Chair] generals don't wage war. Real Generals do.
Saying the war is over and removing "Combat Troops" while maintaining an influential presents doesn't mean the US is declaring Victory and leaving. It just means the situation has changed in Iraq, they are moving on. Yes the Sunni and Shia will still be fighting and possibly still kill each other.

On topic.
Iran is playing a very serious game of cat and mouse. The Sources given admit that their data is theoretical, I agree [Murphy's Law] comes into play for all sides.

reply to post by SLAYER69

If Proto couldn't get the facts right on such a small matter. [Relying on Memory] Who can take his position seriously on larger, much more complicated issues?

Slayer that's the funniest thing I have heard you say to date and a classic from the how to debunk a 9-11 truther commedy video.

In fact you have been using those kinds of disengenuous tactics for months now.

Once you lost your objectivity in Middle Eastern affairs for some strange reason.

In fact I pointed out to JackFlap several pages back that was precisely the thing you were doing.

People who loose all credibility are ones who send out U2U's who say star me, I will star you back I really hate this guy?

Know anyone like that.

The truth is you are pursuing a petty grudge and its clouded your ability to debate honestly and objectively or consider anyone or anything else.

Coupled with a dubious agenda, and a more dubious support network what you have well, is something I won't even comment on.

The great news is that people not prejudiced in their arguments to begin with open minds will actually see exactly what you are doing and while you can always get friends to star lame posts and weak excuses it will still backfire on you just like it did.

Boy did it too because you actually ended up bumping the thread up to the front page with the wolfe pack tactics all the while failing to provide one cognizant and coherent topical argument.

While any peon can be a soldier, a grunt, a pack mule few my friend actually understand real tactics or physcology.



The great news is because such amatuer tactics are entirely predictable they are also entirely exploitable and you got played like a harp!

A really repeditive out of tune off topic harp with blinders on.

We are in fact bankrupt as a nation both economically and morally at this point and the truth is that starting yet another war with Iran is only going to compound the problems being caused by that.

The more people who can be exposed to that plain simple truth while being shown the emotional manipulation and sleazy tactics of the entities promoting such a dubious war the better.

Thanks buddy.

reply to post by SLAYER69

If Proto couldn't get the facts right on such a small matter. [Relying on Memory] Who can take his position seriously on larger, much more complicated issues?

A small matter is right. What does discussing daisy cutters have to do with the dangers of attacking Iran? You of all people should have realized that this has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread. I've seen you post on other threads about how everyone needs to get back on topic and get starred up the butt for that. What happened in this thread? Have you forgotten what it is you preach so well?

Iran is playing a very serious game of cat and mouse. The Sources given admit that their data is theoretical, I agree [Murphy's Law] comes into play for all sides.

This is about as close you have come to dealing with the topic of the thread and it is about as vague as it can get. What the hell are you even trying to say here?

the funny thing about America is that we have enough atomic bombs to obliterate the world, but the moment someone else even wants to make nuclear energy, we get our panties in a bunch and throw a ten billion dollar hissy fit. I love America, I love the people, but I hate our corrupt self-serving war mongering government. we would all be a lot better off if we stopped using all of this money for pointless wars trying to bring democracy to a country full of people who are still trading goats. do you think they even know what democracy is? doubtful. what we need to do is fix our ailing economy, fix our failing school systems, and try to help the hungry and the homeless, not overseas in some impoverished african country, but right here in america where these problems also exist but are overlooked by the media and the people. this may sound cold, but do you see the world rushing to our aid when we have a natural disaster? it's time that we look out for our own interests, america used to be the best country in the world, and it still is, but it is slipping into nothing more than a welfare state with failing social programs and a government who seems to think they can throw money at our problems and they will soon resolve themselves. I truly hope people will soon begin to wake up to the realities of the world around them and shake this dream land they live in loose once and for all.

i may have gotten a little off topic but thats just logically where talk of more war in the middle east leads me

[edit on 2/25/2010 by murphyhurtme]

Ahmadinejad: Arab world will usher in new Mideast without Zionists

Ahmadinejad said Iran, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon will all stand against Israel. ‘(The Americans) want to dominate the region but they feel Iran and Syria are preventing that,’ Ahmadinejad said during a news conference with Assad. ‘We tell them that instead of interfering in the regions affairs to pack their things and leave.’ Ahmadinejad is also scheduled to meet senior officials from the militant groups Hamas and Hezbollah, Syria's state-run news agency said. Before leaving Tehran, Ahmadinejad told reporters that 'the Zionist regime and its sponsors' are rapidly approaching a dead-end, according to the Iranian Students News Agency.

haaretz.com...

I came across an article where Ahmadinejad actually agreed with what I was saying. That we wanted to dominate the region. That is funny. Now why would he say that we should pack our things and leave?

If we were actually there to make the lives of those people better, no one would tell us to leave. They would welcome us. If we didn't have an ulterior motive to the one that the MSM tells us, no one would say leave.

I'm not sure Iran is even playing the cat and mouse game that Slayer is saying that they are. I believe we are playing it and yes it is very dangerous for us to be doing it.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


If you want a real scary war game, base it on Ezekiel Chapters 38 and 39, which for those who do not know in the the Battle of Armageddon, but precedes it.

Thanks for posting this.

I read a book about War Gaming recently and my guess is that Russia and China were not involved in the game as this would have made it "too complicated" i.e. too many outcomes.

The military take these war games extremely seriously and they can be insightful - In the 80s and 90s, there was questions about how useful it would be for weapons shield that knocked out say 3 in 10 nuclear missiles. When this was gamed, they found that Russia would not know which of the 3 of 10 missiles would be knocked out, so they would have to fire a second volley of missiles. Much to everyones surprise, even knocking just 1 of 10 russian missiles meant that Russia would run pout of nuclear missiles!

So as this is a military source, then I can believe these results and understand that they have been played as close to reality as possible.