Pentagon Quietly Explores De-Citizenship of US Citizen Terrorists

(Source) tpm.com

At the highest levels of the US military, a quiet discussion is going on about putting in place a legal framework that would permit the US government to strip American citizenship from terrorists. The case of Las Cruces, New Mexico born al Qaeda commander Anwar al-Aulaqi, who has been a key organizer and recruiter for the terrorist organization in Yemen is the primary driver of this exploration of possibly modifying US law to allow "de-citizening." As the Washington Post's Dana Priest recently revealed, al-Alaqi was added recently to a short list of other Americans for whom there are kill orders in place.

They Came for ME

www.newsmax.com...

Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan is the proverbial canary in the mine. Gunning down 12 soldiers and one civilian, and wounding 31 was not a random act of violence by an army psychiatrist who was slated to deploy to Afghanistan, an evil war in his mind, where American infidels are killing good Muslims.

www.aprodex.com...

As the Virginia-born major told a female neighbor in his apartment complex, “I’m going to do good work for God.” Hasan wanted, in his mind, to die a martyr, killing American soldiers who had been killing Muslim soldiers in Iraq or Afghanistan, or would soon be doing so. There are tens of thousands of Hasans all over the Western world — from Brussels to Berlin and from Burgos, Spain, to Birmingham, U.K. For them, Sept. 11, 2001, was a conspiracy cooked up by the CIA and Mossad, Israel’s external intelligence service.

www.911summary.com...

Even though al-Qaida’s Osama bin Laden and his No. 2 Ajman al-Zawahiri have both taken credit for Sept. 11, countless millions are convinced they had nothing to do with the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon.

archives.cnn.com...

In 2001, before Sept. 11, Hasan attended Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Falls Church, Va., where his principal preacher was a U.S.-born Yemeni scholar name of Anwar al-Awlaki who praised the virtues of jihad, or holy war. He is one of 13 million Muslims — or 1 percent of the world’s total — who espouse extremist beliefs about the United States and its NATO allies. Led by the United States, the West’s Christian nations, as Muslim fundamentalists read the world chess board, are on a crusade to throttle the Muslim world.

michaelfury.wordpress.com...

About 130 million, 10 percent of the world’s 1.3 billion Muslims, are estimated by moderate Arab leaders to be fundamentalist whose sympathies are with the extremists but who do not participate in acts of jihadi violence. Shouting “God is great” — “Allahu Akhbar” — as he opened fire on unarmed American soldiers, Hasan was merely emulating what Muslims cry out as they charge into battle. He was presumably hoping that his last act on Earth would give the powers pause in their crusade to destroy Islam. He had counseled scores of battle-shocked, wounded veterans — in his mind casualties of the Mossad-CIA conspiracy, now an article of faith among many Muslims. Sept. 11 machination theories have spun a tale of intrigue that has circled the globe and grown from a cottage to a global industry replete with best-selling books in scores of languages, videotapes, Web sites, and lecture bureaus that offer speakers who claim special knowledge on a variety of inside tracks. The fact that this is twaddle in all its unrationed splendor, e.g., Jews were not ordered to stay away from work in the Twin Towers the day before the attacks, is conveniently ignored. Three can keep a secret if two of them are dead. A conspiracy on the scale of Sept. 11 would have required a lot more than three. Yet two former Egyptian ambassadors in Washington, long since retired, told this reporter in Cairo last month they were convinced there had been “some U.S. government involvement in 9/11.” One of them said buildings as solid as the Twin Towers could not possibly collapse like a house of cards unless explosive charges on different floors had been programmed to detonate as the floor above began collapsing.
www.ae911truth.org... All Arab newspapers have published detailed stories about an Israeli intelligence service manipulating its friends in high places in the Pentagon and the CIA. The conspiracy theories show no sign of flagging. The peddlers of palpably fraudulent accounts constantly embellish, embroidering accounts of Israeli tourists videotaping and allegedly celebrating the collapse of the Twin Towers. michaelfury.wordpress.com... This dovetailed neatly with the biggest Sept. 11 canard that had phone banks calling all the Jews in Long Island and the tri-state area who worked in the Twin Towers to stay home the next day. The Sept. 11 conspiracy theory now rivals Holocaust deniers. Forty percent of Israel’s Arab population say the Holocaust never happened. The phenomenon is, understandably, more prevalent among those born since World War II.

Well - like I've speculated in previous threads, here comes ROUND TWO for the enactment of the Domestic Enhancement Security Act. If you haven't ever heard of this legislation, it is also known as Patriot Act II...

For those dissenting Citizens here in America, it's all set up! Practice your constitutional rights and be cyber spied upon, and then gaffled up and away into the NWO - FEMA re-education camps because to hold such beliefs and to practice those principles - to them - is a threat.

Q: Why would an American feel threatened by the very freedoms that they were given under a Constitutionally correct government?

A: They wouldn't, at least a genuine American... But for some reason the U.S. Government is afraid of its citizens ...


This is why. It's only a matter of time when the various local Militias are labeled as 'terrorist' organizations. Look at Ruby Ridge, and Waco, just to understand where they will go and are willing to do against American Citizens to protect their own interests.

America - what's next? ...

This should speed up the process of dispatching American-born "terrorists" and their blog-happy sympathizers. Why bother with real courts were you have actual rights when they can march you into a military tribunal, read the evidence, convict and sentence you in less than five minutes?Government CAN be efficient when so inclined. I agree they are very desperate to silence dissent and quash any voices of discontent in short order.
This whole thing stinks of looming martial law. Anyone else getting that smell?

I am mildly torn on this issue. On the one hand, I can see where some acts call for a complete stripping of American citizenship... even if you were born and raised here. HOWEVER, those acts also should be automatic, swiftly carried out death sentences, which makes the stripping of your American citizenship sort of needless. On the other hand, I can so easily see this being perverted into a tool to use against anyone who stands against the government that it is scary.

Make no mistake. This is about legal jargon necessary in the eyes of the CIA that allows them to then kill, terminate, execute, Americans protected by many freedoms and rights and laws. This is about having in place a frame work that does not impede or prevent the CIA from being able to to terminate someones life and then use all available national and foreign assets to achieve that single goal.

This new emphasis on being legally within the guidelines is going to come back and haunt the agency and I for one can only hope that more seasoned and mature minds are driving efforts to bring CIA activities into the realm of normal if there is such a thing. Anything but this new Frankenstein attitude that only hears the moaning and the words of a monster created for evil compelling someone to "Feed Me", feed me.

Oh well, time will tell but stripping citizenship sounds like a bad idea because it began with nothing but politics as the sole basis for existing in the first place because any threat that ever existed to the CIA was always dealt with and politics was not the driving motivation for acting or doing. These days the boys are too busy being cool to realize that they are acting like a bunch of imbeciles.

My only question regarding this notion is why is the Pentagon, specifically, looking into this? It gives me the impression that the Pentagon is looking for ways to, independently, circumvent the law and protections afforded to American citizens, when dealing with Americans it deems to be ‘terrorists.’

There are already in place, in my opinion, the necessary laws to deal with people who commit acts against the United States. ‘Terrorists’ are not some supernatural or special class of people for which our existing laws don't apply.

The TPM article mentions 8 U.S.C. §1481—which details the conditions for loss of nationality—and the case of John Walker Lindh—the so called “American taliban”—to allude to a vagueness in the law in these matters. However, I don't think the law, and 8 U.S.C. §1481, is vague at all, and I don't see why it couldn't be applied as is. I suspect the motives behind this are quite sinister.

8 U.S.C. §1481 starts by stating that “A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—” and then lists different scenarios and situations where a person would lose his nationality. Under paragraph (7) we can read “committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, (...) if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction”

So when you commit any act of treason against, or bear arms against, the United States you will lose your nationality, and therefor, forcefully, will make you lose your citizenship, because those are also, in principle, acts one commits by his or her own will. The US Supreme Court ruled in 1967 that no one can be stripped of citizenship involuntarily. If you are a ‘terrorist,’ someone who commits acts of terrorism, common sense would tell us that, automatically, it qualifies as treason or as bearing arms against the United States.

It's important to note and emphasize that the law makes clear that for one to be guilty of this, it can only occur “if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.” And this, I suspect, is the crux of the matter.

What the Pentagon is after, I suspect, is to be able to strip the citizenship of people before one is convicted, because, as we've seen, the law already contemplates stripping citizenship from people. And that is indeed scary, because it tells me that the Pentagon probably wants to make use of methods and tactics that couldn't be sanctioned on US citizens and hence the desire to strip their citizenship without the hassle—in the Pentagon's mind—of the Courts.

Some people on this board want this. They actually want this. I don't, don't get me wrong, but there are people that post on ATS that actually advocate this exact thing.

In fact, they want to replace the 13th Amendment with one that would allow someone to be stripped of their citizenship.

And people wonder why I am completely against the idea! HERE IT IS FOLKS! This is why!

If laws don't apply to all of us they don't apply to any of us. Do these terrorists get stripped of their citizenship before or after they are convicted of terrorism? Does this mean suspected terrorists are stripped of their rights? Then anyone accused or suspected of anything or anybody somebody might not like will fall into this category. This could also, if carried to an extreme, result in feudalism. If certain classes of people can be classified as terrorist leaning and be required to say wear a star or patch or badge, then they can be made to do menial work, like cleaning the streets and maybe be shot in the head if they don't do it fast enough like in Shindler's List. America was supposed to be a free nation. We were supposed to have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. How can you know a person is a terrorist unless you try him first. But the purpose of stripping him of his rights is to make it easier to convict him.

I have a higher sense of questioning this tactic as it's being 'studied' by the pentagon - namely that WHEN the pentagon backed CIANazi's come to apprehend their target of opportunity - with an issued Declaration of Terminal Citizenship - their objective is to thus apprehend the target, commit rendition of said target - to an undisclosed yet hostile location outside constitutional jurisdiction so as to impliment their refined techniques of torture and ultimately the untimely demise of the newly adopted illegal non-citizen.

The only recourse someone who has had their citizenship revoked by this process would have is to directly petition for political assylum via the United Nations.

In retrospect, it may be a wise thing for anyone who may feel that this law would pose a threat to to search for and discover a foreing consulate near by and to get acquainted with any of the officers or other personnel working there so that when they come for you, you'll have a sanctuary to retreat to, as well as a country to make a direct petition to respecting amnesty and assylum from the U.S., as Common Law is now the only thing that will protect you.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Yes indeed I am thinking the same thing. They are afraid of us, the citizens, and are because they are stealing and killingus like never before in history and are afraid that people may eventually get off their butts and react badly! I can only hope people will soon!

reply to post by DarkspARCS

You cannot be serious.

The Pentagon has neither the power nor the authority to involuntarily strip anyone of citizenship.

Relinquishment of citizenship is an intentional (i.e. voluntary) act, and I am certain that many Muslim citizens oppose our actions against Islamic extremists/Jihadists/terrorists, yet have no intention of relinquishing citizenship.

If the OP is concerned about the referenced U.S.Code provisions and the military, this is neither breaking nor political, much less "news."

jw

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by DarkspARCS

 

The Pentagon has neither the power nor the authority to involuntarily strip anyone of citizenship.

Oh sure why not. they did have the power to murder 3000 of its own citizens just a few years ago and get away with it.

Excellent post.

The penalty for treason has always been death. Why would you need to create a new law when there are plenty on the books?

Reminds me of "hate crimes". Their getting you for whats in your head. The crime is already punishable.

This doesnt bode well.

Remember, Remember....
V

My family has been in this land longer than it has been a country and I tend to take these matters a little more serious than a lot of people I know.

We have served in every conflict which has arisen since we came here and on both sides of one in particular. We are still prepared to defend it from ALL enemies foriegn or domestic.

If the people in the pentagon wants to start down this road they could well "create" far more terrorest than they will ever be able to deal with.

It would be a shame for those charged with defending this country to willfully become involved in it's distruction.

reply to post by jdub297


This wasn't DarkspARCS' idea, this is the PENTAGON's idea. With this as law they wouldn't even have to bother with taking you outside US jurisdiction. The idea is to make EVERYWHERE the pentagon's jurisdiction.
With the founding of NORTHCOM to militarize the US and the recent allowance of INTERPOL to freely operate within the US I think there is a clear plan laid out here.
As others have stated we already have laws on the books to punish people for treason within the US. It's not as if people were going off the hook on a regular basis here. We've had 2 domestic attacks since 9/11 by US citizens (Ft Hood and the Austin plane suicide).
Pray tell me why they would bother with such a law if they had anything other than martial law in mind? SINCE WHEN DOES THE PENTAGON HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH DOMESTIC LAW ENFORCEMENT OR EVEN THE CREATION OF ANY LAWS?

This should make it easier to cover-up, or mop-up after, false flag operations. There's a real danger the American people might be exposed to the truth if there were public trials and "terrorists" were allowed to talk.



[edit on 23-2-2010 by Crito]

S&F

Good Lord.

Treason is already punishable by death. Why on earth would anyone think more sanctions are needed?

Redundancy? Fail safes? .....What?!

Wait!

I'm having a vision, being transported back in time to ...the Salem Witch Trials...

The Salem witch trials were a series of hearings before local magistrates followed by county court of trials to prosecute people accused of witchcraft in Essex, Suffolk, and Middlesex counties of colonial Massachusetts, between February 1692 and May 1693. The episode has been used in political rhetoric and popular literature as a vivid cautionary tale about the dangers of religious extremism, false accusations, lapses in due process, and governmental intrusion on individual liberties.

WAIT!

...Something else is coming in. It's cloudy, I can't see much, and there are too many voices. Angry voices, shouting. The faces are blurry. ...Wait. It's starting to come into focus. ...I see a courtroom.

It's the McCarthy Era...

McCarthyism is the politically motivated practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.

McCarthyism

...and there's more! ...People are running, hiding. Some have their backs to a wall; they're frightened, pointing their fingers...

In the fifties, the most effective sanction was terror. Almost any publicity from HUAC meant the 'blacklist.' Without a chance to clear his name, a witness would suddenly find himself without friends and without a job.

House Un-American Activities Committee

So what's this "House Un-American Activities Committee"?

The House Committee on Un-American Activities (HUAC or HCUA,[1] 1938–1975) was an investigative committee of the United States House of Representatives. In 1969, the House changed the committee's name to "House Committee on Internal Security".

When the House abolished the committee in 1975, its functions were transferred to the House Judiciary Committee.

The committee's anti-communist investigations are often confused with those of Senator Joseph McCarthy. (but)... McCarthy was the chairman of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.

Re: the supposedly defunct "House Committee on Internal Security."

COINTELPRO (an acronym for Counter Intelligence Program) was a series of covert, and often illegal, projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at investigating and disrupting dissident political organizations within the United States. The FBI used covert operations from its inception, however formal COINTELPRO operations took place between 1956 and 1971. The FBI's stated motivation at the time was "protecting national security, preventing violence, and maintaining the existing social and political order."

According to FBI records, 85% of COINTELPRO resources were expended on infiltrating, disrupting, marginalizing, and/or subverting groups suspected of being subversive

FBI COINTELPRO

The plot thickens...

The Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations (PSI) is the oldest subcommittee of the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs (formerly the Committee on Government Operations).

(The PSI has a) broad mandate to investigate inefficiency, mismanagement, and corruption in government.

United States Senate Homeland Security Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations

Hmmm. If the PSI investigates the government, gawd KNOWS what they'll find. ...It's better to terrorize individual citizens, dontcha think?

...'Ya gotta love this Senate. Gives corporations the Constitutional Rights of Persons one week, starts putting a choke hold on individual citizens the next.

National Security?

I don't think so. Sounds like a corporate takeover to me.



Attachment.

Using government to
a. Terrorize and intimidate American Citizens, and
b. Secure governmental powers for global mega-corporations.

A Partial Recap, by Agency:

1. Salem Witch Trials

2. McCarthyism

3. House Un-American Activities Committee

4. House Committee on Internal Security

5. House Judiciary Committee

6. FBI COINTELPRO

7. United States Senate Homeland Security Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations

And don't forget that every Bin Laden video posted on the Internet is real beyond any doubt. Of this there can be no debate. Let us not tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories about government agencies faking videos.



[edit on 23-2-2010 by Crito]

Did we need to strip Tim Mcvey's citizenship?

Did we need to strip the unibombers citizenship?

This is just an excuse to give the president more power -- power which he doesn't need, as it's basically limitless as it stands now.

Originally posted by Kaytagg
Did we need to strip Tim Mcvey's citizenship?

Did we need to strip the unibombers citizenship?

Good questions.

This is just an excuse to give the president more power ...

Nope. Worse than that. ...The power will go to the shadow government that uses entrenched bureaucrats - and no one will really know what's going on, or be accountable.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

This wasn't DarkspARCS' idea, this is the PENTAGON's idea. With this as law they wouldn't even have to bother with taking you outside US jurisdiction.

No, it wasn't. It was Steve Clemons', a blogger's for TPM.

The "PENTAGON" does not make laws. Nor do they declare martial law, the "Commander in Chief" does that. It would be Obama's call if this went forward and the Democratic Congress'.

Deny ignorance.

jw