Snowstorms debunk climate change? What snowstorms?.

I often get a good chuckle when I read someone claiming that the snowstorm outside their window proves some global climate hypothesis. Then I realize how sad it is that this person seems to have such an incredibly narcissistic view of the world to assume that their weather is... well all the weather that there is.

"On a rainy night in Georgia, I feel like it's raining all over the world"

So if you go north of Washington DC, north of New York and keep on going, things are a bit different. In the snowiest Capital city in the world, Ottawa, winter sort of fizzled out.

Hardly any snow, warmer than usual -- is this really winter in Ottawa?
Ottawa Citizen

Ottawa has been grey, drab and mild to a point that astonishes even Dave Phillips, a senior climatologist with Environment Canada. "I never thought I'd ever see the day where Washington had 50-per-cent more snow than Ottawa," Phillips said. "You're known as the snowiest national capital in the world and you're going to lose that reputation."

Starting Nov. 5, this winter's total snowfall, so far, is a paltry 96.4 centimetres. In an average year we have 165 centimetres by mid-February. "It's less than 65 per cent of what you would normally get," Phillips said, adding it's also less than half the 205 centimetres of snow that blessed transit-strike-stricken Ottawa last winter. "When it has fallen, it's been more of a nuisance," Phillips added.

Winter temperatures have averaged -7.6 C in Ottawa, which is almost a full degree warmer than the norm.

I wonder why no one in the "snowstorms debunk global climate change" camp seem to have heard of el Nino?

[edit on 18-2-2010 by metamagic]

January was the hottest month in recorded history.

the heat made record amounts of steam on the ocean...which of course floats up...precipitation, innit it a bitch

The water travels and comes down as rain, or, in areas that are less than 32 degrees F, snow.

Arguably, the incredible blizzard going on is proof that something fishy is going on with the climate...

Originally posted by metamagic
.......................
I wonder why no one in the "snowstorms debunk global climate change" camp seem to have heard of el Nino?

More nonsense from you metamagic?...

First of all buddy even the AGW scientists/scammers have fessed up, and some of them like Jones have contemplated suicide for being found out that he was part of the AGW scam...

Buddy, NO ONE is negating "Climate Change"...nor "Global Climate Change"....

But people like you seem to have an "incredibly narcissistic view of the world" and you can't even differentiate the AGW scam, from NATURAL Climate Change....

I wonder if people like you have ever heard that the CLIMATE IS ALWAYS CHANGING?.....

Let it be...and if you need a new religion you might as well start your own because AGW has been fortunately shown to be garbage....

Is your mind that simplistic that you can't understand the difference between NATURAL Climate Change, and the lie that mankind, and atmospheric CO2 is the cause for Climate Change?....

Your idols, that is the cream of the crop of the AGW scientists, have been shown to be nothing more than scammers who have used false information knowingly, they rigged the results of their research, the data, and the programs they released to the public, and even discussed every legal, and illegal way to keep people believing in the AGW meanwhile hidding the truth.... not to mention the fact that they discussed ways to keep any research that refutes AGW out of scientific journals, and to discredit any REAL scientist who dares scrutinize AGW and shows it to be a scam based on flawed computer models and false ASSumptions....

Yet we still have people like you who still want to claim AGW is real, and everyone who knows AGW is a lie, because it is now public knowledge in case you didn't know, is a "Global Climate Change denier"?.....

[edited for errors and to add coments]

[edit on 18-2-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by SaturnFX
January was the hottest month in recorded history.

the heat made record amounts of steam on the ocean...which of course floats up...precipitation, innit it a bitch

The water travels and comes down as rain, or, in areas that are less than 32 degrees F, snow.

Arguably, the incredible blizzard going on is proof that something fishy is going on with the climate...

While the terms global warming and climate change are all the rage in the media, I've noticed for some time that in scientific conversations, the term climate destabilization is one I'm hearing more and more.

Among scientists in other fields (zoologists, botanists, etc) there are talking about disturbing changes they are seeing in ecologies of various regions are suddenly changing in response to changes in their climates. That to me is the worrying part since our entire agricultural systems may be at risk, and no one is doing risk management.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
January was the hottest month in recorded history.

the heat made record amounts of steam on the ocean...which of course floats up...precipitation, innit it a bitch
.............

Yeah and you know why?.....the OCEANS have been WARMER THAN USUAL.....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/106b03692f00.jpg[/atsimg]

Isn't NATURAL CLIMATE CHANGE a "bitch"?.....

reply to post by metamagic


Climate destablization is the proper term, climate change is just easier to type out:-)

Global warming is the fire that lights the powder keg, it effects worldwide climates...suddenly you get superstorms, megadroughts, etc etc...destablized.

not a world ending event mind you, we are always going through cycles. Man is contributing to this inevitable action anyhow...we, in my opinion, are spending too many years...decades...discussing whos fault it is and spending almost no time in realistic solutions.

cap and trade (and the like) is as much of a solution as having run over 10 nails and air escaping your tire rather fast...a solution to fix the impending flat is not suggesting we stop running over more nails so it doesn't flatten more....(obscure example...good luck understanding it)

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Ocean temps = great reference...check out nasa's website where they show the ocean temp trend for the past 100 years (about the starting of the industrial revolution is great..)

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by metamagic
.......................
I wonder why no one in the "snowstorms debunk global climate change" camp seem to have heard of el Nino?

Well this is one of the most off topic and misanthropic rants I've seen you post EU. It seems that you have just one storyline that you trot out for every post the talks about climate, even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

In case you didn't bother reading the post let me summarize the three main points for you.

1. Some climate change critics are claiming that local snowstorms debunk climate change.

2. In other places not too far away, the winter has been warmer that is normally is with much less snow that usual

3. Both weather anomalies are due to El Nino (this is well knows) -- neither the snowstorms OR warm winter in Ottawa have ANYTHING to do with climate change.

More nonsense from you metamagic?...

First of all buddy even the AGW scientists/scammers have fessed up, and some of them like Jones have contemplated suicide for being found out that he was part of the AGW scam...

Never said anything about AGW, this rant has NOTHING to do with the post

Buddy, NO ONE is negating "Climate Change"...nor "Global Climate Change"....

Yes, many in the American media are... I recall Fox and Friends and Glenn Beck videos where that claim was made, those are the kinds of comments I am responding to.

But people like you seem to have an "incredibly narcissistic view of the world" and you can't even differentiate the AGW scam, from NATURAL Climate Change....

I wonder if people like you have ever heard that the CLIMATE IS ALWAYS CHANGING?.....

Let it be...and if you need a new religion you might as well start your own because AGW has been fortunately shown to be garbage....

Again, you have no idea what I believe, and you keep bringing up AGW although this thread has NOTHING to do with it. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Are you really having problems understanding that?

Is your mind that simplistic that you can't understand the difference between NATURAL Climate Change, and the lie that mankind, and atmospheric CO2 is the cause for Climate Change?....

Oh dear, lapsing into name calling again are we? That's never a sign that someone has something worth listening to.

Your idols, that is the cream of the crop of the AGW scientists, have been shown to be nothing more than scammers who have used false information knowingly, they rigged the results of their research, the data, and the programs they released to the public, and even discussed every legal, and illegal way to keep people believing in the AGW meanwhile hidding the truth.... not to mention the fact that they discussed ways to keep any research that refutes AGW out of scientific journals, and to discredit any REAL scientist who dares scrutinize AGW and shows it to be a scam based on flawed computer models and false ASSumptions....

Again, why are you off on some tangent that has nothing to do with this post? I'm starting to get worried about you EU, this is starting to look like signs of some kind of pathology.

Yet we still have people like you who still want to claim AGW is real, and everyone who knows AGW is a lie, because it is now public knowledge in case you didn't know, is a "Global Climate Change denier"?.....

Okay, you show me where I made this claim in this post. Please.

[edited for errors and to add coments]

Well you did a good job adding all those errors in there EU.

Electric, I'm not going to respond to another one of your posts where you ramble on about some topics that have nothing to do with the thread, have these long arguments with yourself, or reduce debate to name calling and making wild and erroneous accusations about my beliefs. It's a waste of time since your mind is clearly made up and all you appear to want to do is vent and run a round pointing your finger at people and insulting everyone.

So please prove me wrong and join the discussion in a mature and grown up manner.


[edit on 18-2-2010 by metamagic]

[edit on 18-2-2010 by metamagic]

Originally posted by metamagic
While the terms global warming and climate change are all the rage in the media, I've noticed for some time that in scientific conversations, the term climate destabilization is one I'm hearing more and more.

Please stop trying to sound as if you were a scientist..we know you are no such thing.....

BTW, the AGW fanatics/scientists were also raving for a long time about AGW....until it was found out to be a lie and they had to start calling their scam "Climate change"....

Originally posted by metamagic
Among scientists in other fields (zoologists, botanists, etc) there are talking about disturbing changes they are seeing in ecologies of various regions are suddenly changing in response to changes in their climates. That to me is the worrying part since our entire agricultural systems may be at risk, and no one is doing risk management.

The Earth, and all planets in the Solar System are receiving more radiation, charged particles, and interstellar dust.... changes in the dynamics of the Solar System do affect "the ecologies of various regions, as welll as the climate"....

I wonder what new scam would some people come up with now to "do risk management" against "the natural factors that control the Solar system"...

Watch, we are going to continue to see more Climate Change, as well as an increase in seismic and magmatic activity which will become worse at least for a while and these people will continue to claim "we must control it somehow"...

Some people, mostly control freaks, need to learn that mankind, even with all our knowledge, still have LIMITATIONS, and there are things we have NO CONTROL over...

We can only adapt to the continuing Climate Changes.....



[edit on 18-2-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

A bunch of false prophets looking for a profit.

When I hear scientist predicting such and such will happen in 35 years if we do not do such and such, I just laugh because they are idiots and those who believe them will be made idiots.

Snowstorms didn't debunk Global Warming. The scientists that distorted, manipulated, and deleted data debunked it just fine.

One of the scientists leading the charge for Global Warming had to admit that there was no warming since 1995.

Funny....now that Global Warming has been totally debunked, we are now argueing on what actually debunked it!

Not argueing if Global Warming exists, argueing on what debunked it.

This is great!!!

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Carseller4]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

The Earth, and all planets in the Solar System are receiving more radiation, charged particles, and interstellar dust.... changes in the dynamics of the Solar System do affect "the ecologies of various regions, as welll as the climate"....

I wonder what new scam would some people come up with now to "do risk management" against "the natural factors that control the Solar system"...

Watch, we are going to continue to see more Climate Change, as well as an increase in seismic and magmatic activity which will become worse at least for a while and these people will continue to claim "we must control it somehow"...

Some people, mostly control freaks, need to learn that mankind, even with all our knowledge, still have LIMITATIONS, and there are things we have NO CONTROL over...

We can only adapt to the continuing Climate Changes.....

ELECTRIC UNIVERSE!!! YOU AGREE WITH ME!!!

You see, once you get off your AGW obsession you start to get it. There is climate destabilization. we cant' control it, even if we had caused it, the point of recovery is past, BUT it will have a devastating impact on economies, water supplies, ecologies (you now, the places we get our foods and medicines.). In fact the Pentagon (under the Bush administration) suggested that climate change was a high risk factor for global political destabilization and conflict.

Risk management is deals with how we respond to these coming changes.

Well done!



[edit on 18-2-2010 by metamagic]

Originally posted by metamagic

Well this is one of the most off topic and misanthropic rants I've seen you post EU. It seems that you have just one storyline that you trot out for every post the talks about climate, even when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Off topic?...really?... I see, so trying to bring some common sense to a topic instead of allowing some false claims from some people to remain unchallenged is "going off topic"?....

You see...you need to take off that blindfold you have on and start thinking a bit more out of the box... there is NATURAL Climate Change...and then there is the lie of ANTHROPOGENIC Global Warming....

Some of the media channels, Glenn Beck, and other people such as myself have been debunking AGW.... We haven't been trying to debunk "NATURAL Climate change"...

Do you understand now?....

Originally posted by metamagic
In case you didn't bother reading the post let me summarize the three main points for you.

I know exactly what you are trying to do, as you have done before. But let's see again what you are claiming...

Originally posted by metamagic
1. Some climate change critics are claiming that local snowstorms debunk climate change.

There are no "Climate Change critics".... This is something that for some reason to some people, such as yourself, you can't understand the difference between the people who know AGW is nothing more than a lie, and NATURAL Climate Change....

Why is it that it continues to escape your mind that more and more people are becoming aware that ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING is a lie?....

Even the scientist/scammers are fessing up, yet for some strange reason some people, such as yourself, still want to believe in this scam and you can't understand the difference between the AGW scam, and NATURAL Climate Change....

Just because there are people that KNOW that AGW is a lie, it doesn't mean that they are denying NATURAL CLIMATE CHANGE.....

BTW, the snowstorms have not been local, they are occurring in many countries all over the globe meanwhile the oceans have become warmer... These are signs of NATURAL Climate Change, and not of the lie/scam that is AGW....

Originally posted by metamagic
2. In other places not too far away, the winter has been warmer that is normally is with much less snow that usual.

It is called NATURAL Climate Change.....

Originally posted by metamagic
3. Both weather anomalies are due to El Nino (this is well knows) -- neither the snowstorms OR warm winter in Ottawa have ANYTHING to do with climate change.

Wow... now El Nino has nothing to do with Climate Change?....and you dare claim that you continuously talk with scientists?....

Buddy...El Nino is part of a NATURAL cycle which has EVERYTHING to do with NATURAL CLIMATE CHANGE.....

Originally posted by metamagic
Never said anything about AGW, this rant has NOTHING to do with the post

Yes it does... you are the one who can't understand the difference between the lie of AGW, which has been now labeled "Climate Change" but it cointinues to be the same lie of AGW...

Just because the scammers changed the name of AGW to "Climate Change" it doesn't mean that I am talking about something that is off topic....

Originally posted by metamagic
Yes, many in the American media are... I recall Fox and Friends and Glenn Beck videos where that claim was made, those are the kinds of comments I am responding to.

Wow...and you continue to not understand the difference between the AGW scam, and NATURAL CLIMATE CHANGE....

Do you think that there was NEVER Climate Change before mankind appeared on Earth?....

The "American, and WORLD media" have been negating the SCAM that is AGW..... they are not negating Climate Change....

Everyone, except a few which apparently includes you, know that Climate Change does occur...but it has NOTHING to do with mankind or with the AGW scam....

What the media has been showing, at least some, is the truth about the scam that is AGW....

Originally posted by metamagic
Again, you have no idea what I believe, and you keep bringing up AGW although this thread has NOTHING to do with it. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Are you really having problems understanding that?

For crying out loud... I really don't know if I should laugh, or feel sorry for you really...

What the media, Glenn Beck, etc have been showing to be false is the AGW scam......

They know that Climate Change occurs... you do know that the seasons change and hence the climate changes right?......

If the media, and people like Glenn Beck didn't believe in Climate Change they wouldn't believe that the seasons occur....

Originally posted by metamagic
Oh dear, lapsing into name calling again are we? That's never a sign that someone has something worth listening to.

You obviously also have a problem with reading comprehension. I didn't make a statement of fact... I made a question....

It is obvious by now to everyone that you can't understand the fact that the media, Glenn Beck, etc have been showing that the AGW is nothing more than a scam....

Let me try to summarize it to you again.

AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) is the claim that mankind's activities, and more so atmospheric CO2 is the cause for the Climate Changes.... As time went by, and nature itself kept showing that there was no substantial warming the AGW scammers/scientists started calling AGW as "Climate Change"....

The REAL Climate Change which has ALWAYS been occurring, is a NATURAL occurrence which mankind has nothing to do with....

Originally posted by metamagic
Again, why are you off on some tangent that has nothing to do with this post? I'm starting to get worried about you EU, this is starting to look like signs of some kind of pathology.

Wow...ok... so now I am the one showing signs of having "pathological problems"?....

Originally posted by metamagic
Okay, you show me where I made this claim in this post. Please.

Oookaaayyy.....

In your first post in this thread you claim, and I quote:....

Originally posted by metamagic
I wonder why no one in the snowstorms debunk global climate change camp seem to have heard of el Nino?

You continuously show that you can't differentiate AGW, with NATURAL Climate Change..... what members have been saying is that the lie that is AGW is not true....

Yes, it does seem to be a waste of time to try to show you what members have been talking about.... and btw more snowstorms in many areas around the world does show that Anthropogenic Global WARMING is a lie.... because the atmosphere and the entire Earth has not been warming dramatically as the AGW scientists/scammers have been claiming.....

Originally posted by metamagic
So please prove me wrong and join the discussion in a mature and grown up manner.

It is kind of difficult to do that when you can't even understand what you are talking about.

Let's do this, since you are claiming that Fox News, and Glenn Beck claim that NATURAL Climate Change doesn't happen please show PROOF that they have said this....

You are the one that has to show the proof to your claims....

You see, AGW has EVERYTHING to do with this thread because AGW is what the media, Glenn Beck and other people, including myself know is not real....

We KNOW that NATURAL Climate Change is happening, and will continue to happen....

Originally posted by ViperFoxBat
A bunch of false prophets looking for a profit.

When I hear scientist predicting such and such will happen in 35 years if we do not do such and such, I just laugh because they are idiots and those who believe them will be made idiots.

Yeah. I mean remember when they were going on and on about how if doctors didn't stop prescribing antibiotics for everything and using it in cattle feed that we would see antibiotic resistant infections in hospitals and such.

I'm sure they were all looking to scam some CDC money out of it all.. Yes, and I'll bet the 40,000 people in the US who died from MSRA infections last year also appreciated the irony.

Originally posted by metamagic
...........
we cant' control it, even if we had caused it, the point of recovery is past,.

There was never any point of recovery.

You see, I think that you believe in AGW because you have been claiming that people, such as myself are "Climate Change deniers", when we know Natural Climate Change occurs, has occurred, and will continue to occur.

Do you understand why I have been thinking that you believe in AGW?

I doubt that Fox news, and Glenn Beck, and others don't believe in NATURAL Climate Change, what i have seen, and heard them debating is the AGW scam.

Originally posted by metamagic
BUT it will have a devastating impact on economies, water supplies, ecologies (you now, the places we get our foods and medicines.). In fact the Pentagon (under the Bush administration) suggested that climate change was a high risk factor for global political destabilization and conflict.

Risk management is deals with how we respond to these coming changes.

Well done!

Yes, Climate Changes have always affected local, and global economies, and will continue to do so. But the thing is that the "global taxes on CO2", and other forms of control, and tax collection through CO2 is nothing more than a scam.

Mankind really will never have an effect on the Global climate. Mankind's activities do affect local environments, and there are toxic gases being released into the atmosphere, and toxic chemicals being released into the oceans, yet the GREEN camp has been targeting a gas which is benefitial to nature, and mankind. Those in power have been, and will continue to be more than happy to target CO2, because every living thing exhales CO2, hence it can be taxed to death if those in power keep claiming the cause of Climate Change is CO2.



[edit on 18-2-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Oh dear, and we were making progress too...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Off topic?...really?... I see, so trying to bring some common sense to a topic instead of allowing some false claims from some people to remain unchallenged is "going off topic"?....

Nope, off topic is off topic no matter how desperately you want it to be AGW, ti jsut wasn't.

Some of the media channels, Glenn Beck, and other people such as myself have been debunking AGW.... We haven't been trying to debunk "NATURAL Climate change"...
Do you understand now?....

The ones I saw were debunking global warming, claiming that there was no data showing warming for 10 years and that the earth was getting cooler. they did not reference AGW just global warming. Tell you what, why not post a link to one of these guys where they say that there IS natural global warming because I haven't seen it.

There are no "Climate Change critics".... ..

Just take a look at some of the threads on ATS and look at the articles and videos they link to. They're there,

Why is it that it continues to escape your mind that more and more people are becoming aware that ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING is a lie?....
Even the scientist/scammers are fessing up, yet for some strange reason some people, such as yourself, still want to believe in this scam and you can't understand the difference between the AGW scam, and NATURAL Climate Change....

Electric, lets try this once last time. I'll even put it into REALLY BIG BOLD LETTERS so you can't miss it
I have not claimed that the cause of global warming is man made. However you repeat this over and over and over like a broken record. You are lapsing into arguing with yourself it seems.

Wow... now El Nino has nothing to do with Climate Change?....and you dare claim that you continuously talk with scientists?....

Not what I said, I linked weather phenomena to el nino as opposed to saying they were evidence of clmate change. I said nothing about el nino being related or not related to climate change. Argue with what I said not what you imagined I said.

And as for talking to scientists, I do every day, and in fact, I even have sex with a couple of them.. And one smoking hot engineer too.

you are the one who can't understand the difference between the lie of AGW, which has been now labeled "Climate Change" but it cointinues to be the same lie of AGW...

Ahh now your apparent irrationality makes sense. You see, when I use the term climate change, I mean long term destabilization of the earth's climate characterized in part by measurable increases in the long term averages temperatures. We are not talking about short term fluctuations in climate which are normal, but rather longer term trends that are not accountable by short term variations. I do not mean AGW when I use the term climate change and never have even though you believe they are synonymous.

I shall refer to it as climate destabilization then to make you calm down.

If the media, and people like Glenn Beck didn't believe in Climate Change they wouldn't believe that the seasons occur...

That's not climate change, that's just climate.

Originally posted by metamagic
Okay, you show me where I made this claim in this post. Please.

In your first post in this thread you claim, and I quote:....

Originally posted by metamagic
I wonder why no one in the snowstorms debunk global climate change camp seem to have heard of el Nino?

Nope, don't see in that quote where I claim climate destabilization is caused by humans. All I see is a questions as to why climate destabilization debunkers did not consider a fairly standard explanation.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


My dear friend Electric Universe. It finally has dawned on me why you seem to not make any sense. You're getting a few basic ideas all mixed up and it seems to be making you all stressed out. Now since I have developed an odd fondness for you, I don't like the idea of you being unnecessarily worked up so let me run your through a quick recap on basic terminology that I use. That way, you can really cut me down instead of just making me wonder what on earth you are talking about.

Climate: Climates are characterized by long term weather patterns. Ottawa is characterized by snowy winters and average temperatures of about -8C.

Weather variation. At various times, weather may be atypical because of factors like el Nino and produce weather that is not typical of that climate. This is why when we talk about climate, we talk about averaging long term measurements since this compensates for weather variation. In other words, the weather may vary dramatically from year to year, but in the long term it averages out to a fairly stable pattern.

Climate Change. Climate change takes place when those long term stable values start to change. Climate change is NOT the changing of the seasons or an unusual hurricane season or a very hot summer those are weather variations and can exist without climate change. In the last few years, the term climate change has come to mean in common usage the changes that are being observed in the global climate.

Global Warming. A term given to a increase in the mean temperature of the whole planet. Global warming is hypothesized to cause global changes in climates because it introduces more energy into the world climate system. This has the effect of causing more extreme climates. For example, consistently more energetic Arctic high pressure systems over central Canada would be stronger and pull Arctic air further south so that areas in the south, like Texas, would start to experience colder winters. Not just a cold winter, but overall colder winters. Higher ocean temperatures result in greater atmospheric moisture which can cause heavier snowfall.

Climate destabilization. The more rapid the changes to climate, the more chaotic and unpredictable the results, and the more likely we are to see massive ecological effects since the ecologies have less time to adapt to the changing climate. As well, we have to be concerned about tipping points. (EU if you are up on your differential geometry, check out catastrophe theory) For example, a single change, like slainity changes in the Atlantic, might have the effect of changing the climate of Europe to that of North Dakota. Natural systems tend to be non-linear.

Okay, nothing about AGW in there, is there. So the nest time that sit down to write some screeching diatribe accusing me of promoting AGW, come back and read this and make sure you understand what I mean first.


[edit on 18-2-2010 by metamagic]

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by metamagic

 

.we, in my opinion, are spending too many years...decades...discussing whos fault it is and spending almost no time in realistic solutions.

cap and trade (and the like) is as much of a solution as having run over 10 nails and air escaping your tire rather fast...a solution to fix the impending flat is not suggesting we stop running over more nails so it doesn't flatten more....(obscure example...good luck understanding it)

Total agreement. We are smelling smoke and arguing about who might have set the fire or whether the house caught fire from natural causes instead of breaking out the hoses.

Cap and trade is politics. There is no help there.

I don't know what's going on for sure but our climate is not healthy.

The climate variation that we are seeing is a flirt with danger. Warmer warming trends and cooler cooling trends. Not to mention arctic ice that is vanishing at 14% a year.

"According to data from NASA's QuikSCAT satellite, between 2004 and 2005 the Arctic lost an unprecedented 14 percent of its perennial sea ice (shown in white)—some 280,000 square miles (725,000 square kilometers), or an area the size of Texas."

news.nationalgeographic.com...


"More than 300 scientists from around the globe spent last winter on the Canadian Coast Guard research ship Amundsen in the Arctic, studying the impact of climate change. It was the first time a research vessel remained mobile in open water during the winter season.

“We’re seeing it happen more quickly than what our models thought would happen,” Barber said at a student symposium on climate change in Winnipeg. “It’s happening much faster than our most pessimistic models suggested.”

www.vancouversun.com...


[edit on 19-2-2010 by sparrowstail]

You guys need to move to Michigan all we have here is good old fashoned weather wether you like it or not. It's all a scam and now they admit it how can you argue about that