The real cause behind the crisis... like it or not.

We all approach life from unique perspectives. Each generation has its own unique viewpoint and outlook on what th perfect utopia is and how we should work together to get there. But there is one common theme that runs through each generation and constantly comes to the forefront... and it is this one aspect of human society that keeps people in bondage and thwarts the true breakthroughs of science.

Money

No technology has ever been introduced without it. No inventor works tirelessly to improve the condition of man without it. No company has ever existed without it as the goal. No store can bring goods or services to us without using and expecting to make more of it. No person has ever performed a distasteful task without the hope of it.

Money drives us. It is more than green paper, It is a reward for actions taken. It is a necessity for societal living. It is a convenience to make our life easier.

In recent years, I have been concerned with the faltering economy. As a result, I have thought a lot about money and what one can do without and what one would wish to do without. As an example, I own about 40 acres out of the family's 90. That land contains two homes, two wells, two septic tanks, a barn, a myriad of sheds and storage buildings, and two shops of mine, one of which is active; the other contained my first 'bachelor pad' and has become primarily storage. There is maybe five acres of that land which is flat and clear; the rest is mountainous virgin forest. Of that five acres, one is a garden plot, about two are being used for hay, and the rest is filled with buildings and personal living space.

Those define the limits on what I can accomplish without the need for involvement by others and subsequently, money. For example, take food... probably the single largest concern. I have already mentioned a very large gardenable area, but climate also determines what I can grow. Potatoes, beans, peas, corn, squash, okra, tomatoes, onions all grow easily here. That will cover a large portion of the typical required diet. I, however, dearly love citrus. Very little citrus fruit can survive the winters we have here.

To obtain that citrus, I have to either move to an area where they will grow, build a large greenhouse and keep it heated, or buy the citrus form someone else. The easiest option for me is the last, and that requires money to trade for the work and resources used by the citrus grower and the transportation to get it here to me. I also would have a hard time growing enough wheat to feed my entire family. And even if I did manage to grow enough wheat, I would have to grind it in my own mill. It is impractical for me to do this. Salt is another problem area, as I have little to no usable salt deposits here. As is sugar, although it is more practical to consider sugar cane.

In short, I can self-manufacture the bulk of my food, but not all of it. To supplement what I can grow, I need the servicesn of others. In the same way, there are many people who cannot grow their own beans or potatoes, perhaps due to the lack of available land. A garden will typically produce more food than my own family will need, and for that reason it is common practice for people to give away the food they have in excess to family and friends that cannot grow a garden, or in some cases, who did not have a good harvest of a particular crop that year.

No money is needed for this exchange. But it is also a limited exchange. If someone I did not know came up and asked for a bushel of beans, I would expect payment. Why? Because I have worked long hard hours in that garden, weeding, planting, preparing the soil, and harvesting. It no longer is an exchange if I give it to a total stranger on request. To make it an exchange, I need something in return. I can rely on those friends and family to come to my aid in times of trouble; I have no way to know if this stranger is willing to do the same, even from the area.

That is the purpose of money: to assure a fair exchange.

I own a car that I drive back and forth to work, in order to make money to pay for the things I cannot make or get myself. As I do my job, my employer pays me money for my time. In return, that job is a service for other customers, and they pay my employer for that service. I could not perform the job myself for the customers; it requires a crew of workers and specialized equipment. My employer has spent their money to provide that equipment and hire enough people to perform the tasks, and for that service they make more than they pay out. That is profit: a fair exchange of money for services and risk taken. After all, if their business fails, all the money and work they have put into it disappear.

But to go to work, I have to provide something: transportation to my meet point. For that, I need a car and fuel to power it. Sure, I could ride a bicycle, but it would mean a two-to-three-hour commute through weather instead of a 15-minute trip in relative comfort. So I vastly prefer to drive a car. I do not have the capability to produce a car here. It would be simply impractical. So I buy a car from a car dealer for money. That car dealer bought the car from a factory. The factory bought the parts from smaller factories and hired people to put them together using specialized equipment they also bought from smaller factories. Those smaller factories bought smaller parts and raw materials to make the parts for the car factory, and hired more workers to make the parts. The raw materials came from farms and mines, where businessmen bought the land and equipment and hired the people to process them.

Throughout the massive chain of companies involved, millions of people got paid to assemble that car that lets me get to work, some workers, some investros, some businessmen. It means that the car is expensive for me to buy, but it also means the car is available for me to buy.

To get gasoline on my own, I would need first to find oil underneath my land, then I would have to not only put in a well to get it, but a refinery to turn it into gasoline. Again, this is impractical for me. So instead, I pay the local gasoline station for the gas they bought in huge quantities (to make shipping costs lower) from refineries. The refineries, in turn, pay for the oil they use to make gasoline, which comes form oil companies who have the oil-rich land and the equipment to get to the oil. Along every step, workers just like me make thier living by aiding the process.

I think most of you by now can see my point here. Money is not a bad thing in itself; rather it is a necessary way to get things done.

Now to the real conspiracy angle: every generation I see individuals in huge numbers who decry money and speak of how much better we would be without it. They yearn for a world in which all are equal, and bank statements are meaningless. of course, they do, because they don't like the system. The system requires workk and risk and investment.

But it goes much deeper than just a lot of disgruntled people. This attitude feeds on itself. The mark of a businessman is someone who understands what money is and how it works. A good businessman knows that they must walk a fine line between spending enough to produce a good product or service for their customers, and spending little enough to make sure they make enough profit to keep operating. In a good business deal, there is no winner or loser; there are only winners.

But when businessmen try to deal with the disgruntled, they realize soon enough that certain people will never understand the way things work, and that they are wasting their time worrying about them. So there develops a gulf between employer and employee. The employee typically does lose, not because the system is made for them to lose, but because they make it impossible by their very attitude for their employers to make a good business decision. They work as little as they can to get by, making their employer pay lower wages to still make a profit; they use pressure on political powers to force employers to do the things they believe should be done, like minimum wage laws, blissfully unaware that these very laws will simply drive up prices and place them in a worse situation than before, with no real way to return to the previous conditions without severe financial pain to them. They whine; they complain; they make ridiculous demands with no thought to what these demands would do to their employer. and the employers respond by only doing what absolutely must be done to comply with laws and business reality.

In this way, the viewpoints of those who caused the problem, the disgruntled workers, are reinforced and passed on to the next generation. And the news doesn't help: Exxon made record profits this year! Sure they did, because they are selling more gasoline this year. But the media doesn't mention that, and the average person has a knee-jerk response because they don't like the high prices of gasoline. That discredits the outcries in the minds of those in power, and allows the same oil companies to now make truly painful decisions. We cried wolf, and now no one will listen.

As these viewpoints continue to be advanced over the course of many generations, society develops to adapt to them, and this is where the real problems lie. Those who have, are those who are trusted by others in the business community, as they have shown themselves to understand how things work. Thise who have not, are then seen as someone who has caused their own dilemmas, a lower-class worker who would probably destroy any business they tried to run. So those already in power retain their power and those not in power cannot rise above their current position in society.

It has always been this way throughout history. Most of society's existence is a far cry from reality and social mobility; only in recent generations has the concept of a 'mobile society' become acceptable. Instead, feudalism, monarchies. dictatorships, and caste structures have been the norm.

I present this not to discourage others form attempts to better themselves due to hopelessness, but to emphasize the possibilities that exist today. You are in control of your own destiny. You are the one who decides whether or not you advance financially in society. You are the one who determines your fate. Not your employer, not an oil company, not a politician. You.

Bank of America gets away with the shenanigans they do because those who oppose them are for the most part unable to make their complaints heeded by those who can make a difference. Exxon, Shell, American Standard Oil all exist and profit greatly because you make complaints that are unresolvable and demands that are impossible. The US Government is so corrupt because you have destroyed your own voice with inane writings and concerns, ignoring the feelings of others while focusing solely on your own selfish concerns.

Change the attitudes, and you will change the world. Change the laws and you will make the system worse. Realize that it works the way it does because it has to, and every time something is done to hurt the system, it will, it must, respond by making your life more miserable. I close this post with an old saying from many years ago:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The tenacity to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

TheRedneck


[edit on 2/18/2010 by TheRedneck]

You don't have a plane, do you?





Imagine if there were no jobs, no employment at all. No jobs in the future, no 'system'. How would you live your life?

Could not agree more. Money is not a problem. It is just a tool we use. But "excessive" greed is a problem, and big question is whether we can use our other qualities to counterbalance it. So far it did not work very well.

I'm running on 90 minutes of sleep here, but surely you can't believe this paragraph you wrote, correct?!

No technology has ever been introduced without it. No inventor works tirelessly to improve the condition of man without it. No company has ever existed without it as the goal. No store can bring goods or services to us without using and expecting to make more of it. No person has ever performed a distasteful task without the hope of it.

Money is the problem, because it provides the means for excessive accumulation of goods and services. Do you truly think that just because humanity seems to have been one way for ever (truly only a short time on the grand scale of our evolution) , it will never be otherwise? Money is only necessary because of greed. If greed and fear (need to accumulate/hoard) weren't a factor, we'd be living in a utopia of some sorts. You're correct that we can't change the system without changing what our values are. My argument is that pursuit of knowledge will one day overcome the arrogance of greed.

I grew up watching sci-fi and a lot of star-trek. I have faith that if civilization keeps going on for another century without collapsing, we'll have advanced to a money/credit less system.

Then you have this to say:

Change the attitudes, and you will change the world. Change the laws and you will make the system worse. Realize that it works the way it does because it has to, and every time something is done to hurt the system, it will, it must, respond by making your life more miserable.

So we should give into a system which has been corrupted to the core, because if we tweak it the outcome will only be worse? Well, I do agree that reformation would be a bad idea this late in the game. It would only work against the people one way or another. But this is inside of the system. The other way is revolution. The system is already corrupt, outdated, and beyond any rationality. It's time for a fresh start. Shutdown, update, and fire that baby up again.


...okay hope I made the least bit of sense. I'm off to nap now.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by unityemissions]

reply to post by unityemissions


Money is NOT only neccessary because of "greed," my friend. Money (or some form of tiered compensation for work) is neccessary because of human nature towards laziness. Incidently, this is also the primary reason communism looks good on paper but always leads to either dictatorships or abject failure. If you tell a man that he's going to get the same tangible reward, regardless of what effort he puts into something, how much effort do you believe that man is going to devote to that task? I certainly don't work 40+ hours a week because it gives me something to do. I don't happily take on additional tasks at work because it makes me feel good or because I feel any great compulsion to back a heavier load in my life. I do that because I'm paid well and anticipate extra effort today will lead to heftier pay raises and bonuses come employee review time.

If we abandoned all forms of legal tender and stopped compensating people with tradeable goods or money for their labor, within a short period of time we'd have a complete society of individuals who refused to do anything outside of their little sphere of "Hmm, that looks like something fun to do. I'll do that until I get bored with it and then wander off to somethinge else or take a nap."

Star Trek is a work of fiction, it is important for everyone to see that. And even in the Star Trek universe of fictititious communistic utopia there were examples of inequality. Synthale, for instance... the vast majority of people in the series had to drink synthale if they wished to have alcohol... yet there were a select few who had the resources or sway to obtain actual, real booze and did so, enjoying every drop of it. There are no utopias and there never will be... there is only reality and reality clearly states that you get out of life what you put into it (which, if I am not mistaken was the essence of the OP).

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by unityemissions

 

Money is NOT only neccessary because of "greed," my friend. Money (or some form of tiered compensation for work) is neccessary because of human nature towards laziness. Incidently, this is also the primary reason communism looks good on paper but always leads to either dictatorships or abject failure. If you tell a man that he's going to get the same tangible reward, regardless of what effort he puts into something, how much effort do you believe that man is going to devote to that task? I certainly don't work 40+ hours a week because it gives me something to do. I don't happily take on additional tasks at work because it makes me feel good or because I feel any great compulsion to back a heavier load in my life. I do that because I'm paid well and anticipate extra effort today will lead to heftier pay raises and bonuses come employee review time.

I thought communism tended to be the last leg of a countries revolution from one form of government ideology towards another. I thought it was an inherent flaw in all governments "progression" through time. Not really a history buff, though. I could be dead wrong here.

I understand that the way we're conditioned from birth is to value money. That we use this as a means to visualize certain goals, ie "American Dream". I reject the notion that the common man can't learn to value another system. One which is more efficient and doesn't rely on the lure of material accumulation at it's root.

Do you truly think that not a person has existed since the advent of money which wanted only to progress humanity and have enough for himself to merely get by? Some scientists are so engrosed in their projects, that they literally have no time or need for anything outside of their workplace. Sleep, work. That's it. Now this is an extreme example, I realize, but the point is that even with this much conditioning of the necessity for money, some people still put it on their lowest rung of value in needs. This alone gives me hope that one day the average person will be able to see through this lie as well.

If we abandoned all forms of legal tender and stopped compensating people with tradeable goods or money for their labor, within a short period of time we'd have a complete society of individuals who refused to do anything outside of their little sphere of "Hmm, that looks like something fun to do. I'll do that until I get bored with it and then wander off to somethinge else or take a nap."

That seems to be the way most people are today with money in place! Only exceptional people stay in the same career all their life. Only exceptional people actually do succeed and make bookoo's of money. I simply reject your premise that people are motivated solely (or even in large) by their desire for larger wealths. I've known many people who seek to create. I've known people who wish to benefit humanity, regardless of the salary. Perhaps they are the few now. Seems only a few are truly wise! What takes wisdom to see now, may not in the future. Perhaps it will just take a mindless acceptance of the way things are, much like the majority seem to do now.

Star Trek is a work of fiction, it is important for everyone to see that. And even in the Star Trek universe of fictititious communistic utopia there were examples of inequality. Synthale, for instance... the vast majority of people in the series had to drink synthale if they wished to have alcohol... yet there were a select few who had the resources or sway to obtain actual, real booze and did so, enjoying every drop of it. There are no utopias and there never will be... there is only reality and reality clearly states that you get out of life what you put into it (which, if I am not mistaken was the essence of the OP).

I don't need to be pointed out to that star trek is a work of fiction, and understand your feeling of need to state so on ATS. That being said, sci-fi writers often have extremely high IQ's and many actually work as professional scientists. While many things have not come to fruition, I doubt that you could dismiss the reality that some have.

I also reject your notion that a utopia can never exist. Why would you deny this possibility? Not only can it, it seems a logical progression of humanity eventually, IMO.

We do get out of life what we put into it, but I always took this to heart. I took this to mean that when we act in accordance with our conscience, we enjoy the kingdom of heaven. Guess we see things a little differently. That's cool.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Wonderful post and well presented. I can not award applause, but a flag and star I can do.

Those it was intended for won't understand it; those who already know do not need it. Those who would disagree, will continue down a dead end road and ignore the signs along the way; thinking they know the path, when in fact they are totally lost.

reply to post by Blaine91555


Anyone who claims to know the path of another individual is a fool, IMO. I claim only to walk my own. Show me a man who claims not to be lost, I'll show you a man who has no depth.



If this was intended for those who won't understand, and understood only by those who already know, what is the point of this thread? I'm lost.



[edit on 18-2-2010 by unityemissions]

Tis the love of it, that has caused all of this, not quoting scripture, just stating fact, although the scripture is there nonetheless. The wisdom is to use whatever means, ( credit, money, or barter ) in a sensible, and prudent fashion, without letting it become the catch all, end all, so to speak. Without loving it, and worshiping it, money is not so bad at all. "Therein lies the rub", as William said once...

One problem exacerbated by money is that people define their happiness not in absolute terms but relative to the people around them. A man with two pieces of fruit in a jungle tribe feels like a king if everyone else in the tribe has only one piece. Conversely, a millionaire in a room full of billionaires feels like a loser.

This tendency to compare ourselves to those around us is pretty deeply ingrained and would exist even if there were no money. But money gives it a much sharper focus by allowing a numerical value to be assigned to one's sense of self-worth. It's almost as though people treat life as a video-game and your net worth is your score.

The only way to break free is to change the way you think, because these chains are in your mind. It also helps to associate with others who understand this.

reply to post by silent thunder


Excellent post.....

Originally posted by Dbriefed
You don't have a plane, do you?

...LOL

Imagine if there were no jobs, no employment at all. No jobs in the future, no 'system'. How would you live your life?

Star and flag!! I couldn't agree more and at the same time disagree, currency is what is wrong with the world, money powers the entertainment machine that keeps us all distracted and lines the pockets of politicians to keep us misinformed and debt enslaves us in gilded cages. In my humble opinion.

"Money, so they say is the root of all evil today.." - Pink Floyd


[edit on 18-2-2010 by Solar.Absolution]

This may have been posted elswhere before, but its germane to this thread... a funny one from The Onion:

U.S. Economy Grinds To Halt As Nation Realizes Money Just A Symbolic, Mutually Shared Illusion

WASHINGTON—The U.S. economy ceased to function this week after unexpected existential remarks by Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke shocked Americans into realizing that money is, in fact, just a meaningless and intangible social construct.

Calling it "basically no more than five rectangular strips of paper," Fed chairman Ben Bernanke illustrates how much "$200" is actually worth.
What began as a routine report before the Senate Finance Committee Tuesday ended with Bernanke passionately disavowing the entire concept of currency, and negating in an instant the very foundation of the world's largest economy.

"Though raising interest rates is unlikely at the moment, the Fed will of course act appropriately if we...if we..." said Bernanke, who then paused for a moment, looked down at his prepared statement, and shook his head in utter disbelief. "You know what? It doesn't matter. None of this—this so-called 'money'—really matters at all."

"It's just an illusion," a wide-eyed Bernanke added as he removed bills from his wallet and slowly spread them out before him. "Just look at it: Meaningless pieces of paper with numbers printed on them. Worthless."
According to witnesses, Finance Committee members sat in thunderstruck silence for several moments until Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) finally shouted out, "Oh my God, he's right. It's all a mirage. All of it—the money, our whole economy—it's all a lie!"

[...snip...]


At the New York Stock Exchange, Wednesday morning's opening bell echoed across a silent floor as the few traders who arrived for work out of habit looked up blankly at the meaningless scrolling numbers on the flashing screens above.

"I've spent 25 years in this room yelling 'Buy, buy! Sell, sell!' and for what?" longtime trader Michael Palermo said. "All I've done is move arbitrary designations of wealth from one column to another, wasting my life chasing this unattainable hallucination of wealth."

"What a cruel cosmic joke," he added. "I'm going home to hug my daughter."

More at source:
www.theonion.com...

money is nothing more than the paper chains of our monitary enslavement . it is a peice of paper stamped with importance only because they say it has value.look at how its making us turn on each other even here on ats where we are supposed to be resolving these issues not making them worse be arguing with each other over it dont lose sight of the issue because when we die out money isnt coming with us

I disagree with some of the OP.

Money was invented as an alternative to bartering since it doesn't rot away. A person who claimed to own all the apples in the orchard soon discovered he couldn't eat them all and they would rot.
With the introduction of non-perishable substitutes came the introduction of debt.

In other words, property is theft & money is evil

Money is just half the equation. You also have the manipulation of money. People in the early 1900's were concerned about money being manipulated and got suckered into the Fed, which established the national debt which eventually became the backing of our currency. Manipulating the laws about money led to the creation of fractional reserve banking in which, correct me if I am wrong, banks, all banks, are permitted to pretend they have 100 times as much as they do and loan out 90 percent of that. Only because America was an amazing expanding place full of hardworking and enterprising people that we have so far survived the efforts of our government to sink us. Now these same shadowy shady people want to convince you that it is your fault, you are to blame for the predicament they caused, on purpose. They want to convince you that it is because you are too spoiled or too greedy that now you deserve some terrible calamity. It actually IS your fault because you allowed the build up of the military industrial complex and totally immoral wars which served to get us further into debt. By so doing you allowed these miserable excuses for human beings to get control of our economy and gave them permission to sink it.
The solution to the problem is both fiscal and political. End the WAR, end the FED, get the blankety blank (can I say that?) out of the United Nations. Restore sound money, restore the Constitution, curtail a little spending and be kind to your fellow man.


[edit on 18-2-2010 by m khan]

It's true.

Wealth is the root of all evil + life.

reply to post by burdman30ott6

Star Trek is a work of fiction, it is important for everyone to see that.

Thank you!

If I see one more Trekkie spouting nonsense political ideology based on a stupid sci-fi show, I'm gonna climb a clock tower with a high powered rifle, and I can't be held responsible for what I do when I reach the top.

To reiterate:

Star Trek is a work of fiction, it is important for everyone to see that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

reply to post by TheRedneck


Great thread as usual, TheRedneck. I agree entirely: the existence of money is not the problem. S&F


TA





[edit on 18-2-2010 by TheAssociate]

Originally posted by Conspiracy Pianist
I disagree with some of the OP.

Money was invented as an alternative to bartering since it doesn't rot away. A person who claimed to own all the apples in the orchard soon discovered he couldn't eat them all and they would rot.
With the introduction of non-perishable substitutes came the introduction of debt.

In other words, property is theft & money is evil

I disagree with you when you say that property is theft and money is evil. We settled on gold for preferred coin because it was pretty and malleable and didn't rust much. Barter works fine and money works fine so long as the exchange is not majorly ripping anybody off Property is ok. There is nothing wrong with owning property. It is not theft. It becomes theft when the law says your property belongs to somebody else. If we followed our laws, if we insisted that our government even followed our laws and kept the laws just, i.e. restored the Constitution) we could flourish as a nation and a world.But when you turn your laws and your country over to people who don't have your best interests in mind and have no sense of law or justice, who don't see any value in human beings beyond monitary or whatever their own interests are, then you as a nation are in for trouble. Forgive me for going overboard, but I just got through viewing Shindlers List and it is overwhelming to tie what happened to them in with our present condition. Our President for one is wiping his feet on the Constitution. and our "money trust," or corporate fascist banking system, is trying to tell you the solution to your problems is to give up what is left of your property....probably to them. But when you give up your property loe and behold you become property, property of the STATE, meaning property of THEM, the money trust. They already think you are their property and they have gotten so much power that they have us killing innocent people in places like Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan.


[edit on 18-2-2010 by m khan]