Sexual Stigma Survery Part 2

Due to the extreme level of maturity I wanted to throw out the second part of thi survery. As I explained in the first one this is part of a several hundred respondent post that I am doing for my graduate thesis. So here it goes

2 questions and they are completely open ended. There are NO wrong answers and I pray that we don't start attacking each other. So I will remind again this it toally legit and not meant to troll. Frankly I probably won't even comment as to what my thinking is on these subjects

Question 1:

Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?

Question 2:

On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?

Thanks again in advance for being serious about this. You really are helping me on this project

Part 1 of the survery

-Kyo


[edit on 17-2-2010 by KyoZero]

[edit on 17-2-2010 by KyoZero]

Originally posted by KyoZero
Due to the extreme level of maturity I wanted to throw out the second part of thi survery. As I explained in the first one this is part of a several hundred respondent post that I am doing for my graduate thesis. So here it goes

2 questions and they are completely open ended. There are NO wrong answers and I pray that we don't start attacking each other. So I will remind again this it toally legit and not meant to troll. Frankly I probably won't even comment as to what my thinking is on these subjects

Question 1:

Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?
_________________________________________________________

Self blaming unresolved trauma due to violent conditioning, leading to a transference of the behavior of the perpetrator being acted out by the victim.
___________


Question 2:

On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?
___________________________________________________________

Motivation by high level of fantasy acting causing an extreme level of stimulation in certain brain centers relating to sex and aggression. The need for more and more stimulation causes a frustration that must be compensated by moving from the pretend environment to an actual environment. ( this is why child porn activities carry such a heavy penalty when convicted ). Additionally, self perceived inadequacies tend to cause such individuals to see children as non-threatening persons.
___


Thanks again in advance for being serious about this. You really are helping me on this project

-Kyo

reply to post by Fromabove


You a psych major? Not discounting your answers at all...just curious

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


Question 1: I believe that some adults who were abused as children can become pedophiles, serials killers, serial rapists, and child abusers for many reasons. I think a lot of it has to do with self-loathing ... and they want to share the pain that they experienced with others. Another reason could be that the abuse they suffered, the trauma they the endured could manifest as anger or hatred and these crimes can be the product of such a manifestation.

I believe counseling can help minimize the likelihood of such crimes by dealing with the victims problems and helping them come to terms with what has happened.

Questions 2: I think emotional trauma in any form can manifest as anger or hatred and that is enough for these people to turn to such horrible actions.

Some people may be crying out for attention, others may have a mental illness.

The pedophiles could simply be pedophiles and that is why they turn to abusing children ... they simply "can't" control there urges. Which of course is no excuse.

I believe it has to do with the psychological status of these people and many times all of these crimes could be prevented with counseling and mental health aid.

Originally posted by KyoZero
reply to post by Fromabove

 

You a psych major? Not discounting your answers at all...just curious

-Kyo

Thankyou for the compliment, but no, sorry to say. But I do have a very analytical mind that searches out all possibilities to every situation. What I do know of psychology I studied on my own for my own desire to understand human behavior and conditioning.

BTW, this is the best thread I've come across (both actually). And I have read so many since being a member.




[edit on 17-2-2010 by Fromabove]

reply to post by KyoZero


Answer to question 1.

Because its what they were trained to do.

Question 2.

Because they can.




[edit on 17-2-2010 by psyko45]

[edit on 17-2-2010 by psyko45]

reply to post by KyoZero


Hi again!

Q1 Believe that a child's values will be determined by what they experience when they are young/developing - the behaviours they see/experience become the core of the tree (of them). Though the abuse may have been painful, the person gros up believing it is 'normal'.

Q2 A little more tricky - may be as a result of bad experiences at a later date, of rejection or an inability to create a meaningful relationship with their peer/age group. An alternative may be that they have always been used to getting what they wanted and expect the same out of a sexual relationship.

Peace!

reply to post by Fromabove


Well thank you for that compliment. I take my schooling very serious. If allowed I would be happy to post the thesis somwhere when it is done. Some of the answers I have gotten are fascinating. I think professionals look past lay persons way too much. I did this because I want to know what the people think

-Kyo

#1- Childhood is a very impressionable period of life, to include sex. #2- Mental defect. Not necessarily insanity. Edit to add: I am a total layman, probably already figured that out.

[edit on 17-2-2010 by butcherguy]

reply to post by KyoZero As in part 1, I'll answer without reading anyone else's response.
Question 1
I think there are 2 main factors involved that are also linked: empathy & boundaries.
The reason most of us dont commit heinous crime is not because its against the law, otherwise it'd take more than 1/2 of us in uniform to police & jail the rest, but because we empathise with our fellow humans. We have a natural revulsion to causing suffering that we ourselves would understand. A person who is abused will bury their emotions in an unconscious effort to protect their psyche &, in so doing, severely limit their capacity for empathy. Without the understanding of just how bad their intended action would make the victim feel, there is little inhibition except being caught.
Also, if a person has been "taught" by life that the conventions of interaction, the boundaries of whats acceptable & where their or anyone else's responsibility starts & ends, are untrustworthy, then they are not going to rely on them in forming a "moral compass". Again, what they can get away with will be the most important factor. Question 2
I would bet that these people are damaged in the same way as above. It need not have been the result of discrete traumatic events, but could be the result of long term low level threat plus arbitrary &/or hypocritical treatment. I think that modern western culture provides quite a lot of that on its own, throw in some confused, frustrated, possibly deluded parenting, & I believe a sensitive child will shut down well before any signs of major problems occur. They would then grow up "acting normal" in order to avoid further threat, rather than innocently participating in life.
There's also physiological brain damage or congenital conditions to consider. If your brain isn't wired for empathy, you're just not going to care about anyone else.

Please include in your study, the group of pedophiles that no one ever talks about or studies. That is, people with no mental defect, no history of abuse, no power trip nor need to dominate someone, no self loathing...simply they find the phyical form of a 14 - 16 year old girl more attractive than the physical form of say a 25 or 35 year old woman.

No one ever talks about that. It's always simply said, "no one can find a young teen girl attractive without mental defect". I don't think that is true at all. First of all... I was 14 once and found my girlfriends very attractive. What shouldn't I now? Just because I got older, now I'm supposed to like big saggy breasts and fat mama butts and swear off thinking young teen girls are beautiful? Not that I would act on this attraction mind you, but I will not deny that it exists, and why shouldn't it? (Again, we are talking about attraction. I may admire the beauty of a White Tigar in the zoo, but that doesn't mean I want to "do" it!)

My wife is 37 y/o and is what some would call a "spinner". She is just over 5 feet tall and about 105 lbs. She has small breasts and her general physical appearance (body - not face so much) is that of a 14 year old girl. She is physically fit and by all appearances, her body hasn't aged a day since she was a young teen.

One might say I find her atractive because she looks like she's 14 and therefore I must want to be with a 14 y/o and therefore I must suffer from some mental defect. Well, that is simply not true.

I simply find her physical form attractive. Period. Some guys like tall women with big breasts and curvy hips. I don't. So what!?

So when I see a 14 y/o girl I think every so often, hmmm nice body, but I have no desire to seduce a minor or go to jail. Some may not have the self control to resist their physical attraction, but it is a leap to say that all men (or women) who are attracted to a specific physical body style that is uncommon in a mature woman (or man) are pedophiles due to some mental defect. They may in fact, just feel it is worth the risk of going to jail to have what they want. They most likely get caught and that's that. They then try to figure out what their defect is, even if there really isn't one other than lack of respect for the law (especially if it was invited by the minor).

I just don't believe that every pedophile is out to dominate a weak person or fill some mental void. This area needs to me examined further.
By the way, think of all the 45 year old "cougars" out there picking up the 18 or 19 year old boys. Why do they want that? Maybe they are sick of dating bald guys who have flabby abs and can't get it up?

Also I should add that I am about the same age as my wife and also have the body of a teen. It takes a lot of physical exersize and care to stay looking so young. She likes that youthful appearance as well. Does that mean she is a pedophile waiting to happen too? Uh no... she has me and I'm legal twice over.

Just a thought. I'm not expecting people to flame me for my opionion, but perhaps I should be expecting it. I'm really not sure.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


Interesting take. It is very hard for me to not inject my own opinions. Maybe after several days I will tell you what I think but I find what you say to be very insightful. I think it is a bit more normal than some will admit.

Thoughts?

-Kyo

My wife & her twin sister were victims of their Father & his Parents who had victimized their sons. The Grandmother had learned from her Father. Their cousins had been victimized by their Uncle who had learned from the same parents. My Mother-in-law had been victimized by at least one brother. And so it goes.
I believe if one has a conscience and can follow it then everything is ok. When you can twist that conscience then you get the warped who can and will do anything. Date rape - "my right". Rape - power, needs, wants, no other way to get it so why not. I'm not better so I'll prove I'm better. I'm better so I'll do what I want. Some get off on pain and suffering - both sides. Anger at self, anger at others, rage against whatever, we can all feel the desires at sometime but to act or not to act is a choice.
The human mind is a vastness that can never be fully explored. No person can ever fit perfectly in that round hole.
Great thread - I could go on for hours. My brother went into psycology to try and figure out mom. He never did.

Originally posted by KyoZero
Due to the extreme level of maturity I wanted to throw out the second part of thi survery. As I explained in the first one this is part of a several hundred respondent post that I am doing for my graduate thesis. So here it goes

2 questions and they are completely open ended. There are NO wrong answers and I pray that we don't start attacking each other. So I will remind again this it toally legit and not meant to troll. Frankly I probably won't even comment as to what my thinking is on these subjects

Question 1:

Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?

I WOULD SAY BECAUSE THE TRUST ISSUE IS STILL IN ITS BEGINNING STAGES. AND SINCE THAT TRUST IS VIOLATED AS A CHILD THESE INDIVIDUALS CANNOT THINK NOR COMPREHEND WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG WHEN THEY EVALUATE THEIR POTENTIAL ACTIONS. THEY LOOK INTERNALLY INTO THEIR LIVES AND CONSIDER WHAT WAS WRONG AND RIGHT FOR THEM AND PLACE THAT AS A TEMPLATE FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

Question 2:

On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?

I THINK THEY POSSESS THE GENES INTERNALLY MABEY FROM A PAST CLOSE GENETICALLY RELATED RELATIVE WHO MAY OF EXPERIENCED SUCH HEINOUS CRIMES IN THEIR LIFETIME AND PAST THE GENES DOWN THE BLOODLINE EITHER IN DORMANT OR RECESSIVE STATUS. LIKE MABEY THEIR GREAT GREAT GREAT GRAND FATHER EXPERIENCED HARDSHIPS AND THESES GENE HARDSHIPS TOOK SOME TIME TO RESURFACE. ALSO SINCE THEY HAVE NO PAST RECORD DOES NOT MEEN THEY ARE FREE OF BAD ACTIONS THEY MAY JUST BE THAT GOOD AT BEING DIRTY.

GOOD LUCK WITH YOU PROJECT.

Thanks again in advance for being serious about this. You really are helping me on this project

Part 1 of the survery

-Kyo


[edit on 17-2-2010 by KyoZero]

[edit on 17-2-2010 by KyoZero]

[edit on 2/17/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

Thanks to both of you for the comments. My major will be Forensic Psychology. I aim to learn as much as I can and pass it on through publishing. I want to knowwhy the offenders did it. I want to know what goes through the minds of the victims. I plan to treat both sides if possible

-Kyo

Originally posted by KyoZero

Question 1:

Why do you think a person who suffers abuse as a child sometimes turns into a pedophiliac, serial killer, serial rapist or child abuser as an adult?

Absolutely. In particular physical and emotional abuse seems to create a fertile environment for people to display those violent tendencies later. However, it is not a simple cause and effect relationship since some people come from horrific backgrounds of abuse and wind up as happy well adjusted adults in spite of it. And I have seen many cases where the family did everything they could and the child still turned out "wrong."

The two are correlated but there are other co-factors at work as well.

Question 2:

On ocassion we find a serial killer, pedophile, rapist or child abuser who has NO past history of abuse and a clean record. Why do you think some of these people turn to such heinous crimes?

In some cases, it may be a structural organic disorder or other physiological precondition, perhaps a badly formed area of the pre-frontal lobe. However I suspect that many times that when we say there is no history of abuse, we err because we are so hung up on sexual abuse that we tend to overlook the far more damaging emotional abuse.

I worked as a scout leader and had one young boy who was savage, cruel and vicious. His father and mother were well respected church and community leaders and never subjected their children to any form of physical or sexual abuse. One day as I was talking to the mother with the young boy standing behind her, she stunned me by saying "If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't have children. My life really would have been a lot better if I weren't having to deal with burden of children."

I was stunned and replied "You're not serious." or something like that since I really didn't want to believe what I was hearing. She went on "If I had known then what I know now, I would have had my tubes tied on my wedding day." I could see the boy behind her and as she said this, he looked like he was being physically beaten. Even now, I find myself tearing up thinking about the look on his face. After a few minutes, he turned to a little girl and viciously kicked her in the back.

Originally posted by KyoZero
reply to post by Fromabove

 

Well thank you for that compliment. I take my schooling very serious. If allowed I would be happy to post the thesis somwhere when it is done. Some of the answers I have gotten are fascinating. I think professionals look past lay persons way too much. I did this because I want to know what the people think

-Kyo

I think the fact that you can inquire the way you do for a broad array of opinion shows that you'll definitely be a success. I have no doubt you would make a good teacher as well. Let us know how this survey has helped you in your courses of study when you are done.

reply to post by Fromabove


The way I see it we have heard a TON of what scientists think. People too often forget that blue collar, white collar and pink collar folks have good opinions. Heck unemployed people even kids (the psychological community gasps). Yes we can trust children.

Thanks alot. I will make this deal. In 5 days I will return with my thoughts as to why these things occur and I will answer all the questions

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


Children seem to have a more clear look at things around them, so they often make their opinions based on what it is and how it relates only to what it's about. Adults look for the angle and that tends to cloud the thought. My whole interest in psychology started when I read about the Charlie Manson murders in the newspaper. I was only ten years old at the time but kept trying to figure out how a person could do what he had done and the people that followed him in doing it. It's the same for almost every person in life, to a certain degree that you meet. They may appear to be one way but then they turn out different. But people always let the real person out. The skill is catching it when they do. With scientists, the problem is that sometimes they see themselves as so qualified they refuse outside opinion and make themselves limited to further knowledge and experience.

I'll be waiting to see what you post in 5 days. I'm sure it'll be interesting to read.




[edit on 17-2-2010 by Fromabove]

If this is actually a survey then the only people qualified to answer you are actual pedophiles. There's probably a few someone at some time on ATS the same as any other website with a large audience.
Seriously, the responses you would get would be guesses otherwise. I wouldn't dare to venture a guess.
My suggestion would be to find out online who are convicted pedophiles in your area and ask to set up interviews with them. Perhaps then you can gather some first-hand information.