Narcissism? Or 'Internet Disease'...

Lend me some of that famous insight here ATS...

What, in your opinion, would be the protagonist for someone to represent themselves for years, as something they are not?

Psychology of fear? Psychology of selfishness? A self hate that runs so deep and is so profound it causes this kind of, well, maybe it's not schizophrenia, but surely narcissism? Soul deep pain and loneliness?
All of the above and something more?

Example?

A man and a woman have internet friendship for over a decade, day in and day out you sharing everything from the doldrums of daily life to deep (and sometimes dark) secrets and intimacies, sharing your personal self you would normally share with no one.

The relationship graduates into romantic love.

Due to foreseen tragedy - (the death of his wife who was ill for over 15 years and dying the last 2) the one you love is forced by circumstance to reveal something they've kept hidden for over a decade.
The truth.
Your friend lied to you for years - but not about their feelings, or what is in their soul - only about, ha ha, one thing.

Their gender.

Now what - I ask you - was going through her head? What in the hell was going through the head of this woman for almost 12 years? To purposefully misrepresent herself as a male and engage in a love relationship with another woman and - as a man?

Is this some kind of sickness? Some kind of a disorder? Or just pure narcissism?

The term narcissism refers to the personality trait of egotism, which includes the set of character traits concerned with self-image ego. The terms narcissism, narcissistic, and narcissist are often used as pejoratives, denoting vanity, conceit, egotism or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others.

wiki

If not narcissism - is this some social disease contracted via the internet? A - 'I can do it because I can get away with it' kind of thing?

Feedback would be appreciated, I'll be damned if I can't find this one in the psychology books.



ADDED NOTE: Let me add here I say 'Internet Disease' because I know of no other place where a situation like this could come about.

Also, I would bet there's a lot more of this going on out there on the Net than people even realize (obviously more than I realized).

peace


[edit on 13-2-2010 by silo13]

You sound really hurt and upset about this. I might be the same in your shoes, but as a person who has no emotional interest in this person, I can give you my perspective.

Maybe this person didn't say anything because it was his/her personal business and didn't feel the need to share it with anyone.

Or.

Maybe this person would have liked to said something early on in your relationship, but was afraid to approach it. Then as time went by, it seemed
harder and harder to do, so being honest about it at such a late date was not an option.

I'm sure it is a shock to you. Imagine how the other person feels knowing you now know his/her secret.

Not sure that helps. Sorry you are so upset about this. It would be a shock.



[edit on 13-2-2010 by virraszto]

reply to post by virraszto


Thanks for your post.

I probably need to make my post a little clearer.

Thank you so much for your time...

I think virraszto has got it about right.

I hope you don't let this affect your friendship, especially as your friend has more need of you now that their wife has died.

They're still the same person who has loved you for who you are over all these years. Your friendship sounds as if it was more a meeting of minds than anything else and you've always known your friend's mind. The body doesn't really need to make a difference.

I hope you can resolve this in a way that means you can still be happy together.

reply to post by silo13


Silo, what exactly are you looking for?
I think I understand this as the person you thought you knew, wasn't the gender you thought you knew them to be?
Hmm....
Example: Your best friend was a married man for the longest time, his wife died, now all the sudden he tells you he was a female?
So they were lesbians...

Is that what you mean? If so, it must of been extremely shocking to you in order to write a thread about it.
I don't see the "Narcissism? Schizophrenia? Or the 'Internet Disease'"...
I just see someone who didn't feel comfortable in their skin enough to tell the world who they really were. But that's okay, because they aren't alone.
People do this all the time and there's no solution...
You know why there is NO solution?
Because you are not them. Ya know?
Either way, this person is still your best friend and they probably need you now more than ever before.

Hope this helped a bit.
Actually, I hope I understood the thread correctly...

[edit on 13-2-2010 by havok]

reply to post by havok


You understood perfectly.

But isn't it narcissistic? To keep a lie alive, in order not to loose something you need?

I mean excuse me? What kind of person does something like this?

I'm talking 12 years of life, and dreams, and hopes, and fears, and sharing between a man and a woman in a love relationship...

Then - after all this time - Oh guess what? I forgot to tell you I'm not a man, I'm a woman and a lesbian?

What kind of psyche is that?

Narcissism is the only thing I can pin it on.


[edit on 13-2-2010 by silo13]

reply to post by berenike


I understand your point.

But what kind of person does something like this, in your opinion?

I hope you don't let this affect your friendship, especially as your friend has more need of you now that their wife has died.

How can it not effect the relationship? You're in love with a man for 12 years and you find out he's a she?

You've now not only lost the man you love, he's dead, never even existed, BUT, you've lost your best friend at the same time?

I ask you again.

What kind of disorder is this?

What kind of sickness is this?

In your opinion...

Thank you for your time.

Was this strictly an online relationship? If we take the wife out of the equation, you mean this person pursued a romantic relationship with you for 12 yrs, and now you find out this person was not the gender you thought?

That's a different story altogether then. I can see where your anger comes from now. I would be PISSED, after 12 yrs.

Do I have this right now?



[edit on 13-2-2010 by virraszto]

reply to post by silo13


When I made my original post I was going on the information you first gave us. Now I can understand a little more why you are so devastated.

Hard as it is to deal with I think you have to face the fact that you were dealing with a person who was prepared to deceive their wife as well as you. To spell it out, probably the sort of person you would have been ill-advised to make your life with.

I can't explain it going on the few facts we have.

Was this someone who right from the outset (before the romantic feelings came into play) represented themselves as male?

I am truly sorry to know that you are in such distress. Did you know about the wife all along?

[edit on 13-2-2010 by berenike]

Explanation: As long as anyone see's what that person has done, as a sickness, IMO they are also sick!

We ALL live "as if" sometimes. And that "as if" is expessed for a myriad of reasons! Survival in some sense is often the real reason for this ACTING "as if".

Survival of the self is NOT a narcissistic "I'm better than you" kind of sick arrogant attitude! Its a NATURAL instinctive DRIVE!

Personal Disclosure: So you lost the pigeonhole that you had hammered this person into. Thats tough luck. Maybe next time allow a personality to be a personality without TRAPPING them in the confines of your seemingly inflexible mind with labels such as man/woman ect! Which is more important? The personality that you interact with..or the persons looks?

P.S. People change all the time. For example my Aunt just passed away.
She had been alive my whole life and now she is dead. Should I BLAME her for that?

reply to post by virraszto

Yes.
We met and began talking via internet.
I knew from the get go he was married but the relationship was NOT romantic at the beginning and I never thought it would go to that side of the fence so to speak.

His wife was sick with cancer. For years. Finally it was just a matter of time.

In those moments of deep grief and comfort, the relationship blossomed into romantic love.

We never spoke of life after his wife by due to an unspoken moral code of right and wrong (gawd that makes me laugh now).

So, she died. 4 months later - 'He' tells me he's a she.

Thus my question(s).

What kind of person can do something like that?

I truly wonder if it isn't some type of Internet disease... You do it because you can get away with it.

Or, like I said, just plain old narcissism.

Thank you for you time.

Originally posted by silo13
Psychology of fear? Psychology of selfishness? A self hate that runs so deep and is so profound it causes this kind of, well, maybe it's not schizophrenia, but surely narcissism?

If it is narcissism, then God, or whoever puts our souls in our earthernly bodies with gender, is pretty messed up, or drunk when they did it.

ADDED NOTE: Let me add here I say 'Internet Disease' because I know of no other place where a situation like this could come about.

Computer present virtual reality. There is no disease for programmers to create these dreams worlds where we can be whoever we want to be. Some do get hurt when it is abused, yet there are many programmers and creators of these virtual worlds that try to define a line somewhere so people don't get hurt.

Also, I would bet there's a lot more of this going on out there than people even realize (obviously more than I realized).

I'll get to researching this 'malady' of 'Misrepresentation of Identity/Gender' (for the lack of a better term) and see what I can find out.

There are never been and never be a rule that the picture you post on the net of yourself must look exactly like you in the real world. Consider the drunk god, the image on the internet may be more of the truth then what the real world body shows. So, who really lied?

It's hurt me greatly and I don't try to fool anybody. I suggest to read my thread here and consider it, seriously:

Sacrifice or Transcend? Male body, female brain, need advice

There was also something i posted the other day as a quote: "The other day some dude that got a sex change to be a women and tried to claim it as birth defect told me I needed to get a job in order to get that's dude's attention. Wait!!!! Do you see what is wrong here? Shouldn't one want to get a sex change to cure a birth defect in order to GIVE CHILDBIRTH... not tell people to support them!!! This is the difference between being motherly gay and being a perverted faggot!"

I sense we share the same reason to be upset. I hope people like that die on the operation table when they cheat life. This was the most polite way I could say it.

reply to post by berenike

Was this someone who right from the outset represented themselves as male? Or did the friendship slowly develop with neither of you knowing the gender of the other, but as things progressed your friend decided to pursue a romance?

No, from day one a male. Even the name, male.

Again, his wife was dying of cancer. (This I know as fact).

Because and only because of this I let myself get sucked in.
I can honestly say I would never have allowed myself into a relationship with a married man if his wife was whole, living and sleeping with him and out of the hospital - none of which was the case with her.

Thank you so much for your understanding.

I'm putting this down to narcissism.

thanks again

reply to post by OmegaLogos

Personal Disclosure: So you lost the pigeonhole that you had hammered this person into. Thats tough luck. Maybe next time allow a personality to be a personality without TRAPPING them in the confines of your seemingly inflexible mind with labels such as man/woman ect!

I understand your points, and, even starred you for them.

But I have to take issue with me *pigeonholing* someone.

I'm told he is a he with a he name and all the characteristics that go along with being male.

That is HER pigeonholing herself, into a male pigeonhole, not me.

She lied. I did not.

She took away my CHOICE to say (1) Yes, I want to explore a romantic relationship with a female, or (2)- Let's remain friends and I will help you and be there for you etc etc, but NO romantics.

My inflexible mind? I've no idea where you got that so I'll let it go.

Which is more important? The personality that you interact with..or the persons looks?

We're not talking looks here. We're talking one of the most basic lies you can make about yourself to another. Your gender. Looks have nothing to do with it.

And what is more important?

Truth.

reply to post by silo13


Sorry my last post is a little obsolete - more information was coming in as I was typing.

All I can do now is offer you my support during what is going to be a difficult time for you.

I would still stand by my first post if there wasn't the romantic element to the deception. I imagine it would be very hard to try and keep things going on a platonic level?

reply to post by silo13


Hey Silo,

rough times, huh? I am sorry to hear about your pain.

But the only thing that i can say about the person that hurt you is that she just doesn't feel the moral obligation to take responsibility for the feeling of others.

What ever the reason is, is open to speculation and can be any number of reasons.

I hope you will find it in you to refrain from judgment until you understand the real reason. But i guess you will only find your answer from conversation with the person responsible and not with us....

Peace and respect

reply to post by berenike

I would still stand by my first post if there wasn't the romantic element to the deception.

I'm not sure I understand this part, but, I will think on it.

Thanks for your support.

And yeah, I end up changing my posts a bit when i first stick them up. They look so different and read so different once I see them in *print* so to speak.

Thanks again...

reply to post by operation mindcrime

But the only thing that i can say about the person that hurt you is that she just doesn't feel the moral obligation to take responsibility for the feeling of others.

Yeah, that's why I was thinking narcissist.

The term narcissism refers to the personality trait of egotism, which includes the set of character traits concerned with self-image ego. The terms narcissism, narcissistic, and narcissist are often used as pejoratives, denoting vanity, conceit, egotism or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others.

Thank you WIKI.




[edit on 13-2-2010 by silo13]

reply to post by silo13


ask yourself when it is always about you the living one as a fact more than as a will, why are you considering love being an internet relation, and how can you appreciate virtual realities that much to keep it alive for such long years, and never move to any confrontation with yourself true reality

crazy persons like you surely get those crazy stories lives confirming one thing only being crazy is your flavor

anyway when ones mean living anything they can get to sense or pretend doing, they live then subjectively and no reality exist, so maybe you can find out some powers supporting lesbians relations, since obviously what bother you is that you cant live your dream about yourself if it is not given by powers that make it at least realistic by genders divisions meaning to give that dream matters for slaves interested in lies life

since it is behind your pc that all is happening, make some research about lesbians supports from any customs powers, and just try to act as if you are from that culture maybe you would like it

reply to post by silo13


Explantion: St*r for you!

Ok maybe I was a bit knee jerk with that reply.

And it seems I also misunderstood the depth of this relationship you have/had with this person/soul. I got the impression that it was quite shallow and I was WRONG! Sorry for pigeonholing that [yourself and them] incorrectly!

Gender, it appears, IS an important factor for you and that they didn't respect that is quite distastefull and YES they did LIE to you if that was the case.

But I don't think that is narcissism....its wanting what they know they can't have and lying to get it. That is GREED!

Personal Disclosure: Yes you ARE totally correct....Truth trumps all!