Narcissism? Or 'Internet Disease'...

I think there is an element of narcissism involved

Also the lust for power and control


About 18 months ago, a sixty-ish woman who apparently lives less than ten miles from me, successfully portrayed herself as a man to an entire forum of men and women for over a year. I'm sure she's still playing that game online

As a man (let's call him X) she set-up a website to cater to people who, en masse, had quit another, larger forum

X posted photos of himself in the forum and claimed to be semi-retired and living in a distant island State. X volunteered considerable information about himself and was popular with men and women alike

At the same time, she played the role of 'Y' who was known to be an older, hilariously funny and dominant female forum member and close online friend of 'X'

She also posted under at least a dozen other IDs, both male and female

ALL these forum members were the same person, it later emerged

They all had individual avatars

They all posted photos of 'themselves' (and sometimes of their families) in the forum

They all appeared to be fully-rounded characters with distinct 'personalities'

Yet in reality, all of them were the same person (who was a woman)


I'll never know how many of the supposed forum members were actually this woman. I know some of the details but not all. I felt too sick to pursue it further

That one woman, under her wardrobe of false personalities and genders, pitted one forum-member against another throughout. At the time, though, the disputes seemed genuine

And to confuse it further, in her primary guises of 'X' and 'Y' she emailed me often several times a day ---- as 'X' the man who insisted on expressing romantic interest in me despite that I discouraged/ignored it. And as 'Y' the woman, pretending to be my 'cyber soul mate' to say how much she and 'X' liked me (they were both 'Mods') and to ask me how I felt about 'X'

In her emails, in her guise of 'Y the Woman' (whom I grew to trust and like) she wise-cracked, she made jokes about other forum-members and laid down strategies to defeat them. After learning we live in close proximity, she suggested repeatedly that we 'meet'

Now, I suspect that most of the forum-members she joked about and plotted against (or told me 'in confidence' did not like me) did not exist. They were just more of her phony characters

In fact, I wonder now if there were many genuine members at all --- or if she'd invented/created most or all of them

She created fake forum-mutinies and factions, furious arguments, etc. They seemed so convincing at the time. Only after several weeks/months did it begin to become apparent that the one sick mind was probably orchestrating the whole thing, like an elaborate one-woman play

In other words, she'd created an online fantasy world where she controlled everything and everyone

It took me ages to unravel it and it was only because she occasionally slipped up that I began to suspect

When I'd worked it out, I quit the forum. But she wouldn't leave it there. She sent increasingly disturbing and dramatic emails, threatening, cajoling, begging, etc.

It left me feeling physically sick to know that out there is a woman sitting in front of a screen, playing several roles simultaneously, deceiving and controlling unsuspecting people online, manipulating their emotions, their feelings of self-worth, exploiting their vulnerablities, cajoling out their secrets, their hopes, their insecurities

It definitely makes you feel betrayed and you do feel a sense of loss

I can only imagine how enormous a sense of loss would be experienced by someone who for 12 years had believed a person and had believed *IN* that person --- only to discover it was all a lie and that person did not even exist

reply to post by Zsaqulz78th

You can't hide your gender for 12 years in a sexual relationship.

Whoever said it was sexual?

Before you make the mistake of accusing me of lying, try reading the post.

peace

reply to post by silo13


Yikes! What a mess. I would be furious.

I understand why you are trying so hard to give this a "label" such as narcissism, or one of the personality disorders. It's like a lable will explain it all away. "This happened because I unwittingly became involved with someone who.....................".

You cannot just discount the content of the relationship for these many years, because of this. I'm willing to bet the feelings were genuine, and aside from the obvious deception, she meant the things she said to you.

But of course now, everything has changed. This is not a minor little white lie. This was a massive deception, completely unfair to you in every way, that was sustained over a period of years. Completely deliberate, to attain what she wanted: a relationship with you. Clearly she did not have your best interest at heart. It was a selfish, and stupid decision she made.

She knew if you knew she was a woman, you would end the romantic part of the friendship. So, she decided to continue her charade, to meet her own selfish needs.

Just....go easy on yourself. She is apparently very, very good at this, and most likely if you were fooled, any other woman would have been too.

You have received some thoughts here about continuing the relationship with her. I don't really agree with many of them. This is someone by her own history who has deceived you in a hurtful way, so I'm not sure this is someone you could ever trust again. I'm not sure this could possibly be the foundation for a strong healthy relationship, with or without the romantic component.

You might need to take some time to decide IF you wish to continue any type discourse with her, and if you do, you will need to redefine the relationship on your own terms.

I do see you floundering a bit today, trying to find a reason, a diagnosis to blame this on. You might be a little angry with yourself for not knowing before she told you. For not figuring it out.

But resist the inclination to do that. Again, she obviously was genuine in her feelings for you, so all that rang true as it happened. But she lied about something too important to lie about. You don't lie about that.

It may be that there is no mental illness. That this woman just did a very, very stupid thing, and got so far into it that she didn't know how to get out.

Otherwise, I am so sorry this happened. Don't lose sight of the fact that you have the control now. Take the wheel. She now has no choice but to accept whatever you decide.

reply to post by Dock9

It left me feeling physically sick to know that out there is a woman sitting in front of a screen, playing several roles simultaneously, deceiving and controlling unsuspecting people online, manipulating their emotions, their feelings of self-worth, exploiting their vulnerabilities, cajoling out their secrets, their hopes, their insecurities

Thank you very much for the time and effort you put into this post.

And yes, the above quote is pretty much how I'm left after all this.

As understanding and forgiving as I want to be, I'm still left just feeling sick inside. And such a large amount of pity.

That you went so far to help explain this phenomena I'll add some details here I normally would not have - especially considering some of the responses.

I am not an immoral person. I knew it was a mistake to *fall* for my friend, but, sometimes one can't always command the heart.
But, what I could control was my actions.

So, I tried to put myself in 'his' wife's position. Sick, in the hospital, in pain, dying.

I rationalized, wearing her shoes so to speak, that though I would want my husband to go on with his life, I'd rather he didn't' do it while I was still alive. I know, if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't want him having a full blown affair.

Talking to someone he could trust, I would be all for it.
More than that, I would not.

So, when I was tempted to ask 'him' to talk to on the phone?
I didn't. Out of respect for her.

When I was tempted to ask for a picture?
Well, I once went so far as to go to 'his' place of business, online, and stopped myself before I looked at 'his' picture.
Not my husband, no right to look.

Though there were times when we said maybe more than we should have - neither of us ever allowed the relationship to go into anything that could be considered *cybering*.

So what was left some might ask?

A deep sharing and caring and interest in the same things, passion for the same things, understanding of each other and the position we were in, etc and so much more I'll not add here because it's too personal.

All this being said, the problem with the situation you described with this woman on her power trip and so in search and need of attention?
What can be wrong with using others to cure your problems, your *boredom* some have even said?

People do get involved.
And hurt.
And fall in love.
People experience the same range of emotions, and sometimes even more, in this venue.
Some people just end up spending their emotions on people, where as others (dare I point the finger) have raging temper tantrums when their character on World of War Craft bites the dust.

Thank you so much for your time and understanding.

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


Beautiful post

Wise, kind and wonderfully expressed

www.youtube.com.../u/38/C-yMb3jKaYs

reply to post by ladyinwaiting

Yikes! What a mess. I would be furious.

I wish I could be. But all I feel is a great sadness for her...

I understand why you are trying so hard to give this a "label" such as narcissism, or one of the personality disorders. It's like a lable will explain it all away. "This happened because I unwittingly became involved with someone who.....................".

A lot of what you say here is correct. The other part is I'm looking for a *sickness* because people can't help catching the flue, if you see what I mean. It would be so much more comforting to put a label on her than to think she could be, well, resistible and accountable for hurting someone so deeply, someone I do believe she cares for.

You cannot just discount the content of the relationship for these many years, because of this. I'm willing to bet the feelings were genuine, and aside from the obvious deception, she meant the things she said to you.

I don't doubt that. So many understandings and intimacies people who love each other share with each other. But as you go on to say, all that has changed.

But of course now, everything has changed. This is not a minor little white lie. This was a massive deception, completely unfair to you in every way, that was sustained over a period of years. Completely deliberate, to attain what she wanted: a relationship with you. Clearly she did not have your best interest at heart. It was a selfish, and stupid decision she made.

She knew if you knew she was a woman, you would end the romantic part of the friendship. So, she decided to continue her charade, to meet her own selfish needs.

Yes.
And in the position she was in? A long term relationship where 15 years of her life her partner had cancer, and the last ten years of that life a living hell - the pain, hospitals and fear? The helplessness. Then living with this great huge lie?
It almost makes it understandable doesn't it.
See what sucker I am.
But if I am I would rather be a soft hearted *sucker* than an evil condemning son of a *bleep*.

Just....go easy on yourself. She is apparently very, very good at this, and most likely if you were fooled, any other woman would have been too.

Funny enough I'm not upset with myself at all.
Love is love.
Caring for another is caring.
That part is never wrong.
If I helped her get through the bad times then I did a good thing - for 'him' or her.
Thank you for reaching out to a stranger and offering comfort where you can. I think you do understand this very well.

You have received some thoughts here about continuing the relationship with her. I don't really agree with many of them. This is someone by her own history who has deceived you in a hurtful way, so I'm not sure this is someone you could ever trust again. I'm not sure this could possibly be the foundation for a strong healthy relationship, with or without the romantic component.
You might need to take some time to decide IF you wish to continue any type discourse with her, and if you do, you will need to redefine the relationship on your own terms.

I honestly just don't know. Thanks for the pointers. I'll need them.

I do see you floundering a bit today, trying to find a reason, a diagnosis to blame this on. You might be a little angry with yourself for not knowing before she told you. For not figuring it out.

Floundering? Yeah a bit. And Shock, you bet. Also mourning the loss of someone who was very real to me and has now, in effect died. Angry at me? No. Again, any time someone gives, truly gives of themselves, that's enough. Nothing to be angry about.

But resist the inclination to do that. Again, she obviously was genuine in her feelings for you, so all that rang true as it happened. But she lied about something too important to lie about. You don't lie about that.

It may be that there is no mental illness. That this woman just did a very, very stupid thing, and got so far into it that she didn't know how to get out.

Otherwise, I am so sorry this happened. Don't lose sight of the fact that you have the control now. Take the wheel. She now has no choice but to accept whatever you decide.

She's a very intelligent woman.
I do believe out of fear, and wanting so to be loved, she made some mistakes.
Like I said, I have to be careful because it almost makes me want to forgive and forget.
I can do the forgiving.
The forgetting, no.

Thank you again for an absolutely stunning post.
Goes far to restore my faith in humanity.

peace




[edit on 13-2-2010 by silo13]

reply to post by Dock9

Explanation: I have friends who actively "BAIT" evil scum on the internet.
This person you expose doesn't sound like that but I had to post this to show that not everyone out there on the internet is genuine and WE as CONSUMERS of the internet had BETTER BEWARE!

[snip]

Personal Disclosure: Are "Baiters" good or evil Trolls?

Edited Emoticon Fail. Sigh

[edit on 13-2-2010 by OmegaLogos]


Mod Edit- Removed sexually explicit material.

[edit on 13-2-2010 by elevatedone]

Originally posted by silo13
People do get involved.
And hurt.
And fall in love.
People experience the same range of emotions, and sometimes even more, in this venue.
Some people just end up spending their emotions on people, where as others (dare I point the finger) have raging temper tantrums when their character on World of War Craft bites the dust.

Couple of truths I know I can share:

Love & Hate are the same thing.

Love goes that way and hate goes the other way. To say I hate you might be the most loving thing ever said. If the everybody is one in conscious, how did we ever learn to hate just so we could be individuals.

True love is not the same as love itself. When there is death, there is an end, when there is no death, there is no end. With true love, there is no end.

Silo,

Your attitude to your friend does you great credit but may I ask - are you absolutely sure that you are being told the truth now?

Are you sure that there has always been a sick wife and that she's died?
Are you sure that this isn't a guy who wants to end your relationship and who has chosen a cruel way to do it?

I'm not trying to make things worse, it's just I have to wonder how much this person is prepared to deceive you.

Well done for staying strong, especially in light of some of the flak you've taken here.

reply to post by silo13


Finding out you have been indulging in gay cybersex is always tough.

[snip]


Mod Edit - removed uncessary remark.

[edit on 15-2-2010 by elevatedone]

reply to post by berenike

Your attitude to your friend does you great credit but may I ask - are you absolutely sure that you are being told the truth now?

Are you sure that there has always been a sick wife and that she's died?
Are you sure that this isn't a guy who wants to end your relationship and who has chosen a cruel way to do it?

I'm not trying to make things worse, it's just I have to wonder how much this person is prepared to deceive you.

Well done for staying strong, especially in light of some of the flak you've taken here.

I was wondering if someone was going to ask - what I've already asked myself.

The tragedy is yes. I've verified that everything other than her gender, is absolute truth. By credentials, photos, back ground check, etc.

I'd almost wish it were not but sadly, very sadly, it is true.

By the way, I had a wonderful dog, pit bull 'The Captain' that look(ed) a lot like the dog in your photo. He ate his squeaky frog and got colitis and died.
Sorry, I'm laughing a bit hysterically now.
What a day.
Anyway, for the love of that dog, don't let him/her have and plastic toys!

peace

Thanks to you and Docks.

Silo, it sounds like you have a good grip on things, and are taking the high road.

I honestly think I would be soooo angry, it would take me a while to work through the anger and calm it down, before I could even begin trying to decide how I would proceed (or not, as the case may be).

I'm thinking whatever you decide will be the right thing to do.

If it isn't a face to face meeting in the "real world" it is a lie.

Blame the internet.

By the way, I'm a real life rock star, wanna chat?

reply to post by silo13


Dogs are wonderful companions aren't they? I'm sorry to hear about what happened to yours, it must have been heart-breaking. My little mutt loves soft toys and his football.

Here is another picture of him on that sunny day in he garden. Hope he helps to cheer
you up a bit.



Well done for making proper checks on your friend - it's good to know that you are less likely to be deceived any more.

[edit on 13-2-2010 by berenike]

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting

I honestly think I would be soooo angry, it would take me a while to work through the anger and calm it down, before I could even begin trying to decide how I would proceed (or not, as the case may be).

I'm thinking whatever you decide will be the right thing to do.

They say that anger is 'disappointed hope'

Hopes that have been smashed, snatched away, shown to be impossible. The bigger the hope, the greater the disappointment. Hence 'anger' as the defence mechanism. And just behind that anger are the tears. With the tears come acceptance of the death, defeat of our Hopes. We don't want to accept it's all gone. So we maintain the anger as long as we can, to stave off what comes once we accept our hopes cannot be realised. It's how I see it, anyway

Add to that the sense of betrayal, which (along with humiliation) is one of the most painful experiences

Combined, it's cataclysmic

Love, on the other hand, is often defined as caring (at least) as much for someone else as you care for yourself

Silo's dearest friend for so many years cared deeply for Silo, I'm sure. But Silo describes them as extremely intelligent. So they cannot have failed to know, virtually from the outset, that Silo would be hurt

Silo knows this and is confronted with the reality that much as her friend cared deeply for and relied upon her -- she (friend) cared more for herself

Silo is left to suffer and struggle with so much loss, as is the friend also

It's a genuine tragedy. And it's to be doubted it could have continued as long as it did, were it not for internet. It's doubtful the deception could have succeeded via snail-mail and certainly not in the 'real world'. So the thread title is valid in describing it as an 'internet disease'

Click here for more information.

*** ATTENTION ***

Remain on topic and without the sexual comments please.

If you see a T&C violation, alert staff, do no respond in thread.

Thanks,

Just remembered this, or I would have included it in my above post

When my brother in law and sister divorced (followed by many years of added misery) I remarked to him how little bitterness and recrimination he showed. He'd remained as calm and pleasant as always, although I knew how much he'd suffered and continued to suffer

He said, very simply, ' The only thing to do is remember the good times. It's a choice. So I just remember all the happy times '

It's not much to offer you, Silo, but I hope it helps a little