On the Origins of Unexplained Maps

I read the Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings by Hapgood about a decade ago, and it was a serious paradigm changer for me.

After reading lots of material on the subject, its clear to me that there is a yet undiscovered (or yet undisclosed) very advanced, global civilization -- or perhaps more than one.

Many have puzzled over the fact that both Egypt and Sumer seemed to spring up from nowhere, with no apparent antecedent influences. Of course, that's impossible. What does make sense is that they were both legacies from the distant past. The erosion of pyramid-building skills, for example, supports this. Why would the ability to build such monuments regress with time rather than appreciate? If the skills were from an earlier time, and then were gradually lost as those who knew the secrets passed on, etc. its perfectly understandable.

Manetho's "king list" goes all the way back to around 32,000BC. If indeed advanced civilizations existed at that time, then the mapping of all the continents -- as showcased in this excellent thread -- would be entirely explainable.

Very interesting topic.

one of the lost knowlidge could be the Celtic Cross!

The Cross and the Plumbline
By Crichton Miller

I then went on to discover that this instrument was probably the basis of geometry, mathematics, ancient astronomy, map making and time keeping. That this instrument was used in combination with a detailed knowledge of astronomy and monthly star positions, ecliptic and zodiac observations so as to locate the position of any star at any time over a location on the earth's surface. Hence the saying "as in heaven so on earth".
www.world-mysteries.com...

Celtic Cross History and Symbolism

By Stephen Walker, copyright 1996. All rights reserved.

What is the symbolism of the Celtic Cross? is a question I am often asked. As a craftsman and jewelry designer in the Celtic tradition I bring some very ancient symbols to a contemporary audience. The answer is not as straight foreword as one might hope. The history of this powerful symbol is ambiguous.
www.celtarts.com...

[edit on 25-1-2010 by telfyr]

Seems that this goes back to the days of Aristotle...

The notion of Terra Australis was introduced by Aristotle.

however, many cartographers held to Aristotle's opinion. Scientists, for example Gerardus Mercator (1569) and Alexander Dalrymple even so late as 1767[1] argued for its existence, with such arguments as that there should be a large landmass in the south as a counterweight to the known landmasses in the Northern Hemisphere. As new lands were discovered, they were often assumed to be parts of the hypothetical continent.

Still doesn't explain how they knew the exact landmass underneath a pretty thick icesheet back in 1739.

what a fun quest...

Peace

reply to post by davesidious


Baseless conjecture you say? Almost every culture has stories of Atlantis and one of the most famous philosophers in recorded history chose to write about what he saw. Fantasy and baseless conjecture does not stand through the test of time. Most ancient stories are based on fact and diluted through time. Cultures who have never chosen to become part of the new world such as the Aborigines, Mayans, and Hopi have held their ties to Atlantis as recorded fact passed from generation to generation for thousands of years.

And this is BASELESS ?! I'm not going to actually say what my opinion of you is. Perhaps you need a dictionary to help with the anthropology classes you are not attending.

Cool thread. S&F I didn't see the Zheng He map, so here you go.

upload.wikimedia.org...





[edit on 25-1-2010 by Aggie Man]

reply to post by Aggie Man


Awesome , never seen that map!

evidence around the world for an old atlantis

Wow, check out South America on that map.

reply to post by Spirit Warrior 11:11


lol yeah, and than look at the timeline nat geo gaph gives.
ignoring the age of the map.

Voyages of Zheng He
1405-1433
ngm.nationalgeographic.com...


never knew that the land masses raced on earth like that, lawl.




[edit on 25-1-2010 by telfyr]

[edit on 25-1-2010 by telfyr]

Good job,

I've heard accounts over the years about how Columbus possiblly had an ancient Chinese map, 'libereated' from Portugual, that he may have been following when he discovered the new world. The Chinese fleets made some staggering achievements prior to being disassembled in one of China's numerous contractions.

I'd love to seen an accounting of all the things that have been buried or destroyed because they weren't supposed to exist. Personally I think most of the best is in Rome, but I digress.

These items all fall into the group called Ooparts (Out Of Place ARTifacts)...things that exist in a time that they shouldn't. It's well worth a couple hours to google them, there are some very awkward items that have been found over the years.

Makes a person wonder when you see things like these and then hear statements like we are only taught 5% of what 'we' know, and even that is often misrepresented. It was articles like this one that first got me into questioning things when I was a boy.

Hopefully your article will have the same effect on someone else now.

[edit on 25-1-2010 by [davinci]]

reply to post by Aggie Man


Wasn't it proven by carbon dating that it isn't as old as it is claimed?

Cool map non the less.



Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime




most of these if not all are copy`s of copy`s, so yeah the age could be discussed endlessly.

the facts on it, and our data now tell that it is from a real source.

still it could be a fake to get cash, still a copy of a copy, be cos antartica is split on it to .

reply to post by telfyr


Good point!

Just making sure we are not overlooking anything. Wouldn't be the first time people only look at the evidence that supports their theory and disregard facts that might show otherwise...

Peace

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

Wasn't it proven by carbon dating that it isn't as old as it is claimed?

Cool map non the less.

Peace

About the Zheng He Map:

In January 2006, BBC News and The Economist both published news regarding the exhibition of a Chinese sailing map with detailed descriptions of both Native Americans and Native Australians. The map (at right) was dated 1763, and was supposedly a copy of an earlier map made in 1418. Supporters of Gavin Menzies' 1421 theory claim the map as proof that Zheng He sailed to the Americas and Australia. Critics point out that the map, if authentic, is more likely to be based on an eighteenth-century European map.
Detail, Zheng He Map, phonetic transcription of "North America"

According to the map's owner, Liu Gang, a Chinese lawyer and collector, he purchased the map in 2001 for $500 USD from a Shanghai dealer. A number of authorities on Chinese history have questioned the authenticity of the map. Some point to the use of the Mercator-style projection, its accurate reckoning of longitude and its North-based orientation. None of these features was used in the best maps made in either Asia or Europe during this period (for example see the Kangnido map (1410) and the Fra Mauro map (1459)). Also mentioned is the depiction of the erroneous Island of California, a mistake commonly repeated in European maps from the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries. On the map the American continent is labelled phonetically "A-me-ri-ca" (今名北亞墨利加, literally: "Now Name Northern A-me-ri-ca," see detail). This translation was unknown in Ming Dynasty, and is known to be a borrowing from the West, (Amerigo Vespucci).

Geoff Wade of the Asia Research Institute at the National University of Singapore has strongly disputed the authenticity of the map and has suggested that it is either an 18th or 21st-century fake. Wade has pointed out a number of anachronisms that appear in the map and its text annotations. For example, in the text next to Eastern Europe, which has been translated as "People here mostly believe in God and their religion is called 'Jing' (景, referring to Nestorianism)", Wade notes that the Chinese word for the Christian God is given as "Shang-di" (上帝), which is a usage that was first borrowed from Chinese ancient text by Jesuit missionary Matteo Ricci in the 16th century.[45]

In May 2006 the Dominion Post reported that Fiona Petchey, head of the testing unit at Waikato University, which had carbon dated the map, had asked Gavin Menzies to remove claims from his website that the dating proved the map was genuine. The carbon dating indicated with an 80% probability a date for the paper of the map between either 1640–1690 or 1730–1810. However as the ink was not tested, it was impossible to know when it was drawn. Ms Petchey said, "we asked him to remove those, not because we were not happy with the dates, but because we were not overly happy with being associated with his interpretations of those dates."

SOURCE:en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by operation mindcrime


There is an example of a map (I don't know the name, perhaps it has been mentioned) that is now known to be a fake in the Royal Geographical Soceity's archives.

The problem now is not that it is a fake (or a copy), the problem is that the map entered the archive before much of it's information was actually discovered.

It may be a copy, but of what?

There is a three-colour code in Piri Reis map and what looks like a caption at the bottom left. Does anyone know more about it ?

reply to post by serbsta


Brilliant thread my friend...this is the sort of stuff we need to be examining here on ATS...I've been wanting to do some research on unexplained maps for a while now...and this information is invaluable...nice work!

IMO, it's quite obvious we are missing quite a large chunk, and probably the most important chunk, of our history. Also, a large chunk of what we are told is probably incorrect. Someone obviously doesn't want us to know something about our true history and how we got where we are today. The question is what don't they want us to know and WHY?

[edit on 25/1/10 by CHA0S]

Great post, star and flag and thanks for not falling over the edge of the world with speculation. Here's a few thoughts on Piri Reis.
(this is not my scholarship)
www.mcwetboy.net...
"If claims are made to the map’s accuracy and representation, it’s surprisingly easy to refute them. Both Steven Dutch and Diego Cuoghi do just this, pointing out that
* the map is tremendously inaccurate around the Caribbean, reflecting Columbus’s own errors;
* the map does not fit an azimuthal equidistant projection; and, most importantly,
* the curve in South America’s coast does not match Antarctica nearly as well (for one thing, it misses lots of coastline, as well as Cape Horn) as it does Patagonia, if the map is suddenly turned at that point.
The most persuasive reason for the sudden curve in South America’s coastline is put forth by Paul Lunde:
To put it more simply, Piri Reis, or the scribe who copied his work, may have realized, as he came to the Rio de la Plata, that he was going to run off the edge of his valuable parchment if he continued south. So he did the logical thing and turned the coastline to the east, marking the turn with a semicircle of crenelations, so that he could fit the entire coastline on his page. If that was the case, then the elaborate Hapgood hypotheses — or at least those elements based entirely on the Piri Reis map — would have no foundation whatever."

I could post links to sites that actually explain the maps in honest and interesting archaeological terms but you get the idea.
Thing is, hucksters and charlatans will use these maps to make all kinds of outrageous claims about ice-free antarctica etc. etc, and creationists have even coopted the maps for their own use. Fact is, our forebears weren't great mapmakers... I mean Columbus knew the world was round, knew the basic circumference and yet he thought he'd sailed to India... go figure.

ps: Zheng He is an awesome story... thanks for putting that out.


[edit on 25-1-2010 by kenochs]

Aggie Man's Wikimedia link shows Africa pretty well mapped out.

However, the Nat Geographic link telfyr posted shows he (Zheng He) never traveled further South than the Swahili coast.

How was he able to Map the rest of Africa? He must have had another source? No?

I was taught in school in South Africa that the Dutchman, Jan Van Riebeeck, reached the tip of South Africa (Goede Hoop - now Cape Town) and landed there on the 6th April 1652. So where did he get a map from to tell him that he reached the tip? (Maybe he had GPS? )

en.wikipedia.org...

So many questions... So few answers. If only we had a time machine

Here is another old world map. I think it's from 1565

www.sonofthesouth.net...

And here is a Wiki link to several old world maps:

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Here is another old world map. I think it's from 1565

www.sonofthesouth.net...

And here is a Wiki link to several old world maps:

en.wikipedia.org...

Well, that certainly answers how Van Riebeeck knew he'd reached the tip of Africa. Thanks for the links