Are we winning the war?

You should by now have seen the ATS news article about Obahma supposedly planning to target conspiracy theorists and there websites.

Should we take this as a sign that we are winning the battle? Why else would they feel the need to take action. Im not sure how they plan to do this but by pushing it back underground. They are advertising the fact that they have thing they want to hide and it will only strenghthen are resolve.

Bring it on Obahma, lets see what you've got. A similar task to removing all porn off the internet i would imagine.

[edit on 21-1-2010 by Algebra]

The man who lead his campaign on the promise of "Hope" too, ironically. If we can't challenge the government and see that something isn't right than this country our founding fathers found is away and unfounded again. "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." - Thomas Jefferson.

Yeah, we're winning. First the "War On Drugs" now the "Battle Against Truth-Seekers". We'll think of the official name later on lol

These wars won't win, hopefully it won't waste taxpayer money either.

It's been many years since there was an actual 'war' on our doorsteps. There have been conflicts, but they are "seizure and protection of assets."

The truth can hurt, and a number of people stand to lose their assets should the truth come out. They are going to do all they can to avoid this situation, and they have the...er....assets...to actively stop it.

Will the whole truth come out? Don't hold your breath.
The 'war on drugs' was a complete and utter waste of resources. Unless, of course, it was a shell for other activities. The 'war on terror' is just another 'seizure and protection of assets.'

reply to post by Tantalus


Yeah i agree. We're definately making head way. What about that man who says governments should infiltrate forums and create doubt on the evidence raised.

I thought this was already happening lol.

I'm feeling particularly cynical today and say that we are not.

We have an opinion and we voice it openly on a conspiracy website. Huzzah. And yes, I am a firm believer in the freedom of expression. Society, not Sunstein, is the real censor. And while we pride ourselves on our ability to read-between the lines, society, the MSM and our fellows will ensure we have very little power.

Despite the sense that Ron Paul made amidst the banter during the Repubblican convention, the general attitude portrayed to the audience at home was one of patient ridicule.

This is where we are losing the battle.

reply to post by Oscitate


Very true. Even if conspiracy theorists did find out the truth about something. Im sure we have already about many a subject. No one outside the community would take us seriously anyway.
I think "conspiracy theorists" need an image overall. Maybe if we called are selves. "Finders of hidden truths" or "Secret Revealers" or something we'd gain a wider audience. I doubt it though.

To them Conspiracy Theorist means crazy person.

reply to post by Algebra

Are we winning the war?

I would tend to think that there may have been a few battles that were fought to a draw... but nothing close to winning any war.

The problem is two-fold.

First, there has never been anything like the internet in all the history of humanity. Nothing has ever allowed so many a open common from which to speak freely and openly. But this wonderful common is not just a place of openness and truth. It is also a place of misdirection and outright lies.

The second issue is that the government fears that the greater mass of the people will be enjoined to become less complacent and more active, if not even reactionary. All governments, princes and kings and even dictators, have always feared a general uprising of their people. And rightly so because there is nothing so utterly unstable and dangerous than a nation under the throes of a mob mentality.

The combination of these two things, combined with a history of not always being entirely truthful to their own people, makes governments cringe when a large group of conspiracy theorists get together on a public common to share notes.

So... now Mr. Obama wants to get a handle on the situation and we should not be surprised that he does because either rightly or wrongly, we here at ATS and other websites that offer a polyglot of alternative news links, we represent a challenge to the system of conventional belief.

Now, who is right and who is wrong? Who in the hell knows? But the fact that we are out here, in the wild as it were, without an ounce of respect for those standard conventions of belief, we represent a potential threat to the powerful institutions of those beliefs; the 'establishment'.

That we have gotten this far is a testament to the constitutions of freedom that many of our nations outwardly espouse. In that, there is a victory. But if we are reckless in our endeavors and begin to create a genuine fear in that establishment, the battles to come will not be so easily won.

There is nothing so dangerous than a beast that is cornered.

Best

reply to post by redoubt


So if they fail to hault are progress, what can you imagine that they'll do. Adopt a china style block on websites they deem as damaging to there conventional thoughts.

If it comes to that then there will be the unrest that you speak of, because no doubt people will fight for the right to say and think what they want. As long as any Governments in power. There will be a movement of people who question there intentions.

So maybe they are the ones who are getting in to a battle they cant win.

Thanks for a great reply

reply to post by Algebra


I think that we should walk softly, displaying moderation and wisdom in all things. And then if all that fails, we still have a big stick in the form of constitutional rights that cannot be taken without arousing the greater whole.

IMO, that is the path that should be pursued.

I am not in a war.

I am merely willing to ask questions, notice things that don't fit, and be willing to be wrong.

Frankly, if you see everything as a war, you have lost and aren't aware of it yet.

reply to post by redoubt


Take it through the courts lol. That would be a publicity wet dream.

I think your right though, maybe we dont want a war. I find myself dreaming of a conspiracy theorist army marching on the lawns of the whitehouse. Dangerouse to say the least. If we appear to be causing a problem then they have an excuse.

I need to calm down a bit

reply to post by Aeons


O.K then how would you describe the battle between those who lie and those who want the truth. Maybe you dont see yourself as a soldier but your still behind the main attack wave rallying them to victory. You still want the same thing as everybody else.

Things aren't that two sided. Sometimes even the opposite of the truth, is still the truth.

I 100% agree that we are winning the war. And that probably means that the MiB will come knocking on all of our doors soon and threatening us to be quiet or else.

The fact is the government would just force us more and more underground which could have a reverse effect. If other people saw that the government were forcing the community underground, then they would realise that the government has its secrects and would perhaps join us.

reply to post by Aeons


I think i've heard someone say that before actually. Forget where though. Might have been a physicist.

O.k i get your point. Maybe the use of "war" advertises the wrong message. Why would they feel the need to act against us if there was'nt some sort of conflict going on.

I wouldn't worry about it. These sorts of forums are way too useful in the modern world. This initiative will run afoul of the other groups in the government who do use them.

I would suggest that the government be aware that they are going to end up with the same problem police used to have in the 60 and 70 where they would do a bust and find everyone was an agent.

They'll end up telling themselves their own stories, and fighting their own stories, and becoming incensed by the views of their own decoys.

I am less concerned about finding political and discussion forums go away. I'd be more concerned at the colossal waste of time, money, and effort.

The Right Hand doesn't know what the Left Hand is doing.

reply to post by Aeons


Yeah thats true lol.

Nothing will ever come of it. They've got way to much other stuff to screw up.

I'm sure that it is worth keeping an eye on.

It is possible at some point the people on the right hand and the people on the left hand will coincidentally line up with the same views, and those views will be that people are too stupid to be allowed to question.

In the meantime, this sunstein character isn't totally wrong. His fix is.

If there is a problem with people being incapable of knowing when what they are hearing is outside reason, than really the answer in a modern society that values a skilled thinking labour force is to better teach and model critical thinking skills.

The most regressive, economically devastating, individual rights destroying way to do so is to clamp down on it.

Dumbing down people by not legislating and regulating questioning is probably the fastest way to destroy a First World labour force and destroying your international clout that I have ever heard of.



[edit on 2010/1/21 by Aeons]

Im not so sure. I bet some of the more serious posters on here have had a visit or two from the FBI etc. Is there any threads discussing visits?

And I wonder how many undercovers are operating on this website?

reply to post by Aeons


So what your saying is that Conspiracy theorists are the product of a society that requires open minded critical thinking.

So in effect they actually created the movement and trying to destroy it would lead to there downfall.

Very deep! Ive never thought about it like that before.

I feel a little enlightened lol.