It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Golden Ratio Discovered in Quantum World

page: 1
6

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 08:47 AM
link   

Hidden Symmetry Observed for the First Time in Solid State Matter




ScienceDaily (Jan. 7, 2010) — Researchers from the Helmholtz-Zentrum Berlin für Materialien und Energie (HZB), in cooperation with colleagues from Oxford and Bristol Universities, as well as the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, UK, have for the first time observed a nanoscale symmetry hidden in solid state matter. They have measured the signatures of a symmetry showing the same attributes as the golden ratio famous from art and architecture.


Source: www.sciencedaily.com...




posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 08:49 AM
link   
This is another big discover for the Science camp.
Too bad some of us here know all to well they still have a slight ways to go...


I found this excerpt from the article interesting:


By tuning the system and artificially introducing more quantum uncertainty the researchers observed that the chain of atoms acts like a nanoscale guitar string.


Perhaps giving credence to String Theory?



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 09:01 AM
link   
reply to post by Tgautier13
 


Nature has a fractal nature
. It scales infinitely small and large with the same patterns and simplicity, this is why any unified theory requiring 26 dimensions or discrete elementary particles is a waste of time. Perhaps when "scientists" understand this they will stop wasting their time with trying to go smaller and smaller because you will end up in a never ending cycle. You could say that currently their eyes are too close to a flower wallpaper...that is they don't see the flower pattern since they are too close and don't see the atomic patterns because they are too far. But getting even farther will yet again introduce the same chaos and order. But once you understand the fractal nature then there's no need to go smaller or bigger as you would then truly understand the whole picture.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by broli]



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 09:11 AM
link   
Yes, but how much closer do they have to look to understand this? How much closer can they look? Simplistically here we are talking about the golden ratio pi being discovered for the first time on the quantum level. When will the institution as a whole decide to take the rose-colored shades off, or as you say, step back from the wall?



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 11:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by broli
reply to post by Tgautier13
 


Nature has a fractal nature
. It scales infinitely small and large with the same patterns and simplicity, this is why any unified theory requiring 26 dimensions or discrete elementary particles is a waste of time.

Not so. Your implicit assumption that matter is infinitely fractal is plain wrong. It could never be so because of the Uncertainty Principle, which sets a cut-off (Plank scale) in the size of space and the duration of time.

26 dimensions of space are required by quantum mechanics itself, not by any particular unified theory. It is the condition for a quantum field operator for measurable properties of a spinless, 1-dimensional object, defined at two points in space-time with a space-like interval, to be non-commuting.

If you want to see how the Golden Ratio is profoundly associated with superstring physics, study the research articles by Dr Stephen Phillips at
smphillips.8m.com...
that relate to the disdyakis triacontahedron. Articles 47 & 50 (PDFs) demonstrate in particular how the Golden Ratio, Fibonacci & Lucas numbers measure the sacred geometries of various religions, which in turn encode the physics of superstrings.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 04:17 PM
link   
reply to post by micpsi
 


Yes and the earth was flat...

But I guess I'll ignore the people, like the "scientific" community does, who not only came up with this but proved it experimentally and harnessed it in the form of technology. Physics has become a new religion, closed to anything new and arrogant through and through.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 05:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by broli
reply to post by Tgautier13
 


Nature has a fractal nature
. It scales infinitely small and large with the same patterns and simplicity, this is why any unified theory requiring 26 dimensions or discrete elementary particles is a waste of time. Perhaps when "scientists" understand this they will stop wasting their time with trying to go smaller and smaller because you will end up in a never ending cycle. [edit on 9-1-2010 by broli]


Not true. . . . both particles and space time have a limit its the plank length. "Wasting" time hunting particles has givin us the most accurate scientific theory ever concieved by mankind, "the Standard Model" I'm not saying that this model isn't flawed but it is amazing in its accurate description of sub atomic particles.


Because the Planck length is the only length that can be formed from the constants c, G, and ħ, dimensional analysis suggests that lengths of special significance in quantum gravity are likely to be small multiples of the Planck length.


en.wikipedia.org...


26 dimensions of space are required by quantum mechanics itself, not by any particular unified theory. It is the condition for a quantum field operator for measurable properties of a spinless, 1-dimensional object, defined at two points in space-time with a space-like interval, to be non-commuting.


this is also incorrect. Without fermions strings can vibrate in a flat but unstable 26-dimensional space time. Fot the most popular equations having the fewest physical anomolies (like tachyons) 11 dimensions as described by ED Witten are all that are needed.


In a superstring theory with fermions, the weak-coupling (no-interaction) limit describes a flat stable 10-dimensional space time. Interacting superstring theories are best thought of as configurations of an 11 dimensional supergravity theory called M-theory where one or more of the dimensions are curled up so that the line-extended charged black holes become long and light.


The laws of nature and mathematics seem to predict a universe that exsists as a result of simple rules. Not a fractal world with infinite depth and complexity. The fractal universe contains far to much variation to be mathimaticaly satisfactory. The complexity of our universe is broad don't get me wrong, but its complexity arose from the simplicity and symmetry of the early universe.

When entropy becomes greater than symmetry you start to find things like, quarks and gluons, which gave rise to electrons, protons, neutrons which became atoms. There is no need for the infinate depth and breath of a fractal. Its just unnecessary.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 05:21 PM
link   
So the below Stephen M. Phillips quote is what you are referring to -- the Tetrahedron of Pythagoras as having 26 "dimensions" as reference points of measurement -- and this is also the same for a quantum relativity model:

It's a nice coincidence but Phillips is incorrectly interpreting Pythagorean philosophy. He'd have to read Dr. Peter Kingsley's Ph.D. thesis, "Ancient Mystery, Magic and Philosophy" to understand exactly why Pythagoreans are not understood in modern terms. In other words what science calls Pythagorean is actually a projection of modern thinking back onto Pythagoreans. Real Pythagorean philosophy is modeled by Taoist philosophy as I discovered and the Tetrahedron is the full-lotus yoga position for mind-body resonance with the universe. So there is a connection to Western science -- but, in fact, the two are diametrically opposed and then dialectically meet in their opposite extremes -- through the noncommutative resonance.


They comprise 26 points, lines, triangles and tetrahedra. In other words, 26 geometrical elements are required to create the simplest solid in four steps. Compare this with the fact that the critical dimension of space-time for free bosonic strings to have no negative-probability ghost states (5) and for the theory to be Lorentz-invariant (6) is 26. This


reply to post by micpsi
 



posted on May, 22 2010 @ 09:06 PM
link   
reply to post by broli
 


So macro reality is simply a fractal representation of the quantum world?



new topics




 
6

log in

join