ATS made me more skeptical

I love Conspiracy Theories and it´s by searching for them on the internet that I have found ATS.

Just like many around here, when I first read about 2012, I believed everything. Then i searched some more and then I discounted the Mayan Callendar as a prophecy and worried about the Earth´s polarity Shift and the Solar Storm, both about to happen around 2012. Then i discounted Earth´s polar shift and now I am only left with the Solar Flares, which someone linked in another thread has been recalculated to happen in may 2013, and some say it´s not even going to be a strong one.

Anyway, two things made more skeptical, in a good way!

One of them is to see how many brilliant minds we have here trying their best to find the truth, even if that means debunking an evidence we WISH were true. I find that something healthy.

The other one is to see how many people readily believe in ANYTHING. And I saw myself in those people and realised I had to put my feet on the ground and try to find some ballance. Believing anything is about the same as not believing in anything.

So, thanks ATS for being a useful tool in my search for answers and for helping me finding out in WHAT to believe.

Welcome to, Stage 2 in ATS.

You come in fully Biased in what you believe (without evidence, or even little evidence)

Then you realize, that it's all BS...

Now you've entered the stage, which most of all ATS differs, the scary ****.

Realizing that after you bypass most BS, that some of this, may be very real, and has good evidence for it!

Skeptical now, but some stuff...... makes you really wonder!

2012 for me, I believe will be a important date, because...well everyone else thinks it may be the end... which may create some serious stuff going down.

reply to post by henriquefd

Believing anything is about the same as not believing in anything.

I disagree. Believing in nothing seems to be a much more rational approach than believing in everything. What do you believe in?

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by henriquefd

 

Believing anything is about the same as not believing in anything.

I disagree. Believing in nothing seems to be a much more rational approach than believing in everything. What do you believe in?

You see, till I was 21 I had questions that went unanswered. Spiritual&Religious questions. Since catholicism didn't answer them and asked me to blindly believe in all the mumbojumbo, I quit that and since them I have researched to reach my own conclusions.

I guess that I failed to do that when I embarked in the Conspiracy world, and ATS opened my eyes. I was blindly believing in stuff again without doing research and reaching my own conclusions.

So, I believe in my conclusions. I dont need to have THE PROOF to believe in something, because if I can prove it, than it is not a belief anymore. It is a fact.

To me, believing in everything is the same as believing in nothing, because it sounds like blind faith.

I mean, do I believe we've been in contact with aliens? yes. If not now, sometime in our history. It is a conclusion I have reached by myself, on books and articles I have read, and on people I have talked to.

Now, if you ask me if I believe in reincarnation, I will tell you I havent made my mind about it yet. It´s not a subject I have researched.

What about ghosts? Also will have to pass on that one.

So, that´s what I mean. Nobody can research EVERYTHING. Nobody can reach their own conclusions about EVERYTHING. So, if you just accept Everything, you are not doing your homework. And if you just deny everything, you ar enot doing your homework either. IMHO.



[edit on 5-1-2010 by henriquefd]

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by henriquefd

 

Believing anything is about the same as not believing in anything.

I disagree. Believing in nothing seems to be a much more rational approach than believing in everything. What do you believe in?

Wait a minute. That doesn't make any sense.

Nothing is something, it is one big clump of nothing.

Therefore, Believing is nothing IS a belief in SOMETHING.

Aha paradox.

Also, are you claiming that it is irrational to believe in everything? Why? Either everything exists or it does not, and by the looks of "reality" everything apparently does indeed exist.

Everything only includes things that exist, because things that do not exist are not part of everything. They just do not exist.

However "everything" does exist, so it appears to me that believing in everything is rational and logical, while believing in nothing is an impossible paradox that cannot be achieved without defeating it's original intent in the first place.

reply to post by muzzleflash


You are coming at this from a different angle than I am. Conceptually, it is easier for me to believe in nothing than it is to believe in everything.

Do you believe that Christianity is true?
Do you believe that the Muslims are right?
Can they both be correct?
Can they both be incorrect?
Do you believe in the government report of 9/11?
Do you believe in the conspiracy report of 9/11?
Can they both be correct?
Can they both be incorrect?

When everything out there is conflicting with something else, I find it easier to believe in nothing.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

You are coming at this from a different angle than I am.

No I didn't mean it like that.

I was just being philisophical and poking fun at the definitions of the words themselves.

Trust me I knew what you meant, but was simply using verbal gymnastics to mess with ya.

Actually rather than "believing in nothing" I think it would be more accurate to say that you Karl, would prefer to "reserve judgement".

If that makes any sense?

[edit on 5-1-2010 by muzzleflash]

I guess we are giving different meanings to the words "everything" and "nothing".

I will say what I meant in a different way. I try not to accept anything as true or false before I reach my own conclusions about it.

To believe in everything, the way I meant it, was to believe everything people tell you without stopping for a moment to think about it or even to research the topic, if it requires.

To believe in nothing, then, would be to dismiss everything people tell you without stopping to think about it, or doing a proper research if it requires.

reply to post by henriquefd


What you mean is

" Believe no one, question everything".

I am thinking.

Because you clearly do not believe in "nothing", you obviously believe in English language and computer usage.

And I revert to my philosophical points made previously.

Perhaps the misunderstanding derives from our misuse of words?
This is why I suggested what seems like more accurate terminology to fit what idea you were attempting to convey.

And I agree with the basic premise but just think we need to word it more properly.

When I first joined ATS, I joined mostly due to the UFO section as well as my interest of Philly project/Montauk. And aside from a few obvious hoax vids and pics in the UFO section I was for a lack of a better term a believer. Then a few of the more seasoned ATS'ers on here started to make sense and I started looking at thing s through a skeptic lense off the bat. Get rid of the extraneous hoo-hah that all hoaxers put into there "stories" to blind and confuse, then examine what is left. Also use what you know or are interested in. I used to think my avid military interest was just that and confined to discussing ththings down at the VFW. Then I started to apply some of it here and have had some very interesting debates and have "debunked" some stories that were put out there by charlatans or hoaxers.You are on the right path my friend.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by djvexd]

reply to post by henriquefd

The other one is to see how many people readily believe in ANYTHING. And I saw myself in those people and realised I had to put my feet on the ground and try to find some ballance. Believing anything is about the same as not believing in anything.

I've find that the majority of ATS readily believes anything, even when it can be shown to be false. You just end up being called closed minded or told you just don't get it. It's pretty fun pressing the matter until they eventually give up on it with you, being unable to actually put forth any real evidence for their assertions.

reply to post by Republican08

2012 for me, I believe will be a important date, because...well everyone else thinks it may be the end... which may create some serious stuff going down.

A lot of people thought Y2K was going to be the end of civilization as we know it. Yet irregardless of that wide spread belief and the media over-hyping it, nothing actually happened. 2012 is going to be another uneventful apocalyptic claim like all the rest.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
I disagree. Believing in nothing seems to be a much more rational approach than believing in everything. What do you believe in?

False.

You still answered the question. Thus even disbelief is in itself still a belief. By answering the question without direct knowledge or understanding, you have committed to a belief. Your belief is simple "A", and someone elses is "B".

Belief and disbelief are both IMO equally wrong. It should instead be either you understand and know, or you don't. That is the only true honest response.

And from that, you can still know and understand alot of things. I know and understand gravity. I know what I had for dinner. These are not beliefs, these are things that are known, understood and experienced.


[edit on 1/5/2010 by badmedia]

Well glad to hear you are happy.

Scepticism, while a step up from being a blind believer, means that you can never truly believe anything ever again.

You have to always question what you see, hear, smell, read, talk about, touch, think and remember because you can never have a certainty; you are always in a state of flux causality.

But as long as you are happy to believe that you exist, I exist and everyone around us does too you can use that scepticism to shape that world into being a better place.

The real mind mess is whether your younger self would agree with your current course of action? What of your older self? By the time you've finished this sentence they've both existed and a different version of your identify waits at either side still.

A much more eloquent, and depressive, way of what I am trying to say can be found in Jean Paul Sartre's book Being and Nothingness.

Hope this finds you well.

-m0r

i to came to ATS completely biased and full of what i was sure to "blow people away" and "change peoples beliefs" instead im the one blown away and questions different beliefs,

ATS is a UNIVERSAL MIND CONTROL DEVICE =P

reply to post by sirnex


Y2K didn't happen as advertised as millions of developers realised the problem, and worked round the clock to fix it. There is evidence of Y2K - just get an old computer, set its date to Dec. 31st 1999, install Windows 95 on it, set the time to near midnight, and wait. That's a perfect demonstration.

2012, however, doesn't even have evidence suggesting it's anything. It's the result of a lack of critical thinking, coupled with the over-active imaginations of people who want the world to end or others to suffer.

yikes.

Originally posted by badmedia


Belief and disbelief are both IMO equally wrong. It should instead be either you understand and know, or you don't. That is the only true honest response.

Great point.

Not sarcastic, being honest. Your 100% right.

Nothing wrong with not knowing either, because one day, I might get to find out and actually know. And that revelation will be awesome.

So not knowing something is a good thing, and I like it. Thankfully, because it is something that plagues our existence and cannot be changed.

We will not know all things, but all things will not remain unknown to us.

It must be a cup is half empty or half full situation.

Or to those of us who do not like spilling things, it is "Just right."

Everything is a balance is it not?

reply to post by muzzleflash


Indeed. To not know is joyous - as it is the perfect, and only, opportunity to learn.

The whole Norway spiral thing, for example, would have never happened if folks who don't understand about ICBMs and Newtonian laws of motion had actually learned about them. I guess that was too hard, and too much to ask for. Instead of having a bunch more people knowledgeable about such things, we ended up with dozens of people all confused, talking about science they don't understand, and corrupting the intelligence of others. Sad.

reply to post by davesidious

Y2K didn't happen as advertised as millions of developers realised the problem, and worked round the clock to fix it. There is evidence of Y2K - just get an old computer, set its date to Dec. 31st 1999, install Windows 95 on it, set the time to near midnight, and wait. That's a perfect demonstration.

Point being, irregardless of the amount of people who were *sure* something was going to go wrong, they did not facilitate the action of something going wrong. We can count possibly a dozen other apocalyptic cases where a large number of people were sure the end was nigh and yet they didn't facilitate that end when nothing happened. In other words, belief in an end doesn't bring an end.

2012, however, doesn't even have evidence suggesting it's anything. It's the result of a lack of critical thinking, coupled with the over-active imaginations of people who want the world to end or others to suffer.

No doubt! I really dislike the extinctionist attitude of many religions, where they pray for their deity of choice to bring wrath upon the wicked and save only them. I just don't get how people can have such a narrow minded thing to look forward to. It's funny though, no matter how much is put forth against the supposed 2012 apocalypse, people still want to believe it to be true. Hopefully they don't bring about the apocalypse on their own, and I do hope past predictions of apocalypses not coming true remains the same for this one.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by sirnex]

Originally posted by l neXus l


ATS is a UNIVERSAL MIND CONTROL DEVICE =P

Well than, it is a unique type of mind control device that aids our minds in actually working for once the way they were meant to work. By questioning all things and seeking the truth.

And because it is a voluntary device, I will support it's usage.