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Originally posted by seethelight
Encouraging capitalism by bashing Wal-Mart - Not to bright
Kinda like encouraging freedom by promoting a fascist.
Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by seethelight
You are absolutely mistaken. I was discussing Rand, not my own "base instincts," thank you so very much. I won't discuss myself here, but I will tell you I am not a selfish person, in fact, quite the contrary.
To the OP:
I believe that unrestricted corporate capitalism is dividing our country into several unsavory segments, and worry that if something is not accomplished to get it under control, the middle class will become extinct, and join the ranks of the "have-nots". This is not something I would look forward to.
I appreciate your concerns and share them with you, I would however, argue that what you call "unrestricted corporate capitalism" is not capitalism at all but is what John Kenneth Galbraith termed as oligopolism. Capitalism has three basic tenets that must necessarily be adhered to in order for it to be capitalism. These three tenets are:
1) A free and unregulated Marketplace.
2.) Massive competition.
3.) A uniform currency backed by real wealth whereby all can agree on the value of this currency.
Not one of these tenets exists in today's "free market" system. Regulation is the order of the day and corporations spend billions of dollars every year to lobby Congress and state legislatures to create even more regulations. You don't think the mom and pop businesspeople are lobbying for more regulation do you? You don't think regulation is accomplished by the sheer will of unions and American socialists do you? It happens because want it to happen, because it helps them to destroy...
Massive competition! Corporations despise competition and both Pepsi and Coca-Cola have conspired to shut out any would be competitors just as every major corporation does. Coca-Cola will tolerate Pepsi and vice versa due to anti-trust laws, but allow massive competition? Right. Fuggedaboutit! Corporations will through lobbying for intrusive legislation, through aggressive business practices and/or leveraged buy outs, do what they can to destroy competition.
This leaves us with a currency backed by wealth that all can agree upon the value of that currency. You do realize that the U.S. has been relying upon fiat currency since Nixon was President, right? As long as we are reliant on fiat money we have no currency backed by wealth and all we can agree on is that it is useless and can only have any real worth if it is backed by consumer confidence.
Corporatism, or oligopolism is the problem not laissez faire capitalism. Capitalism is what both the poor and middle class need if they are to continue their necessary rise up and to ensure they flourish and prosper. Capitalism will never be allowed to operate under the three tenets I just listed as long as we keep agreeing to the system in place today.
Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Originally posted by seethelight
Encouraging capitalism by bashing Wal-Mart - Not to bright
Kinda like encouraging freedom by promoting a fascist.
It's encouraging capitalism by removing the artificial barriers put in place that make start-up and growth unnecessarily difficult for the individual and small business. Such as holding a farm with 50 chickens to the same fees and taxes as a farm with 50,000 chickens.
Walmart can thrive fairly safely because government is keeping the competition down either intentionally or unintentionally.
The side-effect of this is that a handful of companies grow to unnatural levels and buy their influence in politics supporting more regulation and legislation to protect their place at the top even more and engaging in various levels of social engineering to ensure the consumer base they have never grows up and out of a certain economic zone.
I think either your focus is too narrow or you're intentionally not getting it so you can continue to pass the time here in this thread.
Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by seethelight
Who said anybody was a "follower" of Rand? And you presume to judge my intelligence? What is wrong with you?
Whether you like it (or know it) or whether you don't, Ayn Rand happens to be one of the most brilliant novelists and thinkers of our time. Millions of people the world over have discussed her books and philosophies for decades. (Surprised?).
Sorry, everything you are saying is so off-topic I have no interest in continuing a discussion with you on this thread.
Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by seethelight
Still you continue to rely upon fallacious arguments exposing yourself to all who would see who you are. You have no valid arguments to offer and so you are forced to rely upon fallacious arguments rather than simply admit that you advocate tyranny and collectivism and hate individuals and want everybody to be restrained to act no better than the lowest common denominator. You expect to win debates simply by declaring your opponent wrong and yourself right and then get terribly flustered when you discover no one is buying your nonsense and feel horribly picked on and unfairly singled out as being the trouble maker when all you want to to do is...well, cause trouble and destroy what others would build. It has been interesting seethelight, but I am bored with this now, and would like to have an intelligent conversation for a while.
Originally posted by seethelight
Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by Chevalerous
I am not interested in any leader and am more interested in how I can flourish and prosper without having to ask the damned government for permission to do so. I remain skeptical that all these anti-Rand and Galt posters have really taken the time to read Atlas Shrugged. Galt was a leader of a movement to withdraw from a bogus system.
You, just like the other poster have declared Ayn Rand and a fictional character both as idiots without offering one argument as to why they are and then remarkably declare: "...enough Said!" All righty then...
Ayn Rand's hero's used terrorism.
Sounds uplifiting.
Here's a quote from Rand about Native Americans:
"They didn’t have any rights to the land, and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using . . . . What was it that they were fighting for, when they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their ‘right’ to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, but just keep everybody out so that you will live practically like an animal, or a few caves above it. Any white person who brings the element of civilization has the right to take over this continent."
She also openly asked he would-be lover to cheat on his wife... what values.
More about this hero:
Rand had become addicted to amphetamines while writing The Fountainhead, and her natural paranoia and aggression were becoming more extreme as they pumped though her veins. Anybody in her circle who disagreed with her was subjected to a show trial in front of the whole group in which they would be required to repent or face expulsion. Her secretary, Barbara Weiss, said: "I came to look on her as a killer of people." The workings of her cult exposed the hollowness of Rand's claims to venerate free thinking and individualism. Her message was, think freely, as long as it leads you into total agreement with me.
Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by Chevalerous
I will say that as controversial as Rand's idea's have been, they were very unique, especially for the time in which they were written.
Whether or not I agree with her ideas, they are original and brilliant, and the novels are absolutely fascinating; the characters are awesome.
Masqua: Sorry about the off topic post. I knew it, but I did it anyway.
Go figure.
Originally posted by Chevalerous
Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by Chevalerous
I will say that as controversial as Rand's idea's have been, they were very unique, especially for the time in which they were written.
Whether or not I agree with her ideas, they are original and brilliant, and the novels are absolutely fascinating; the characters are awesome.
Masqua: Sorry about the off topic post. I knew it, but I did it anyway.
Go figure.
Yes the books with the charater Galt is great written, but in context with the recent developments in the world with a neocon name, I'm sorry my beautiful friend! - but this has stained Americas good name in the world.
To understand me correctly, you have to look pass the author and the character in this book and look at America from an outside perspective - only then you can understand the the greatness of Rand and Galt!
I'm sorry! but her work & philosophy was hijacked by a cabal who made this world, not a better place - but much much worse in the name of America.
These thieves and traitors of the night hides under a mix of artificial philophies which they wants to call their own - that's not true!
They are using every possible means to seduce the American public!
But don't worry though! - it's the same modus operandi here in Europe as well! - that's why it's soo damn important that we fight this good fight together and not alone!
With love sincerely - Chevalerous
Originally posted by Silver Shadow
Yes, very prophetic.
The roots of America's corruption, and coming destruction go back a very long way.