The real holocaust revisionists.

erichunt.net...

Auschwitz officially changed their Holocaust number from 4 million to 1 million Jews murdered. Holocaust exterminationists like to call Holocaust deniers "revisionists" as if a historical event is ever 100 percent absolutely known and therefore history can never be revisited or revised. And yet, the official story of the holocaust is continually revised and edited, as in this example. erichunt.net...

Here are some more videos about the Holocaust

www.holocaustdenialvideos.com...

Keep in mind that in certain European countries, it is actually illegal to deny the holocaust. Video of David Irving speeches goes into detail about his alleged crime of holocaust denial (even though he is not a holocaust denier). In the video, found on youtube, he says that the judge could not even repeat the crime he committed, because then the judge would also be guilty of the crime of holocaust denial (fast forward to about 8:00):

www.youtube.com...

The main reason why holocaust denial is looked down upon with scorn is because it is an insult to those who have actually been oppressed by the holocaust, yet they never offer any type of compassion to the German people who are still being held on trial for holocaust war crimes.

www.reuters.com...

Demjanjuk was actually found innocent of war crimes by an Israeli court, and lived in Cleveland, Ohio until he was later deported to Germany. He is charged with the crime of murdering 250,000 Jews. There is no evidence of course of his crime, only eye witness testimony. If you research some of the holocaust denial videos, you will see an in depth analysis of some of these supposed eye-witness accounts.

Another reason why holocaust denial is looked on with scorn is a reason I find quite ridiculous, that it will prop up Hitlerism, but this is false, if anything props up Hitler, it is the story of Nazi brutality. World War 2 was thought of as the "good fight" against Nazism, and so the holocaust myth builds up the militarism around the world, giving it an excuse so long as the "good" guys are fighting the "bad" guys.

One final remark on the "rise of Hitlerism" is that no one denies that Hitler was a dictator, and yet Hitler seems to dwarf Stalin in comparison because of the holocaust story, even though Stalin was just as brutal of a dictator. If people really wanted to put the rise of Hitlerism to rest, they would stop using the term "Hilter" as a standard phrase to call one's enemy you do not like.

And you can see how the holocaust story is protected today, through the use of courts to silence all opposition to the official story. The real revisionists of the holocaust try to silence their critics in an Orwellian and fascist manner, and yet claim to be protecting the innocent and intolerant of fascism.

I am not a neo-nazi, nor am I a holocaust "denier" since even the so called holocaust deniers are not really deniers. I prefer the term holocaust diminisher, since I do not deny that there were camps, but they were mostly war prisons and not death camps.

Originally posted by ancient_wisdom
Video of David Irving speeches goes into detail about his alleged crime of holocaust denial (even though he is not a holocaust denier).

Yes he is, the Judge at the David Irving v Penguin Books and Deborah Lipstadt trial said
""The judge summarizes his findings as follows:
“ Irving has for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence; that for the same reasons he has portrayed Hitler in an unwarrantedly favourable light, principally in relation to his attitude towards and responsibility for the treatment of the Jews; that he is an active Holocaust denier; that he is anti-Semitic and racist, and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism. .. therefore the defence of justification succeeds. ... It follows that there must be judgment for the Defendants."

because its important to distinguish between the death of 6 million people compared to 1 million people.

reply to post by dereks


if you watch any video of David Irving or any other "denier" for that matter, they almost always deny the fact that they are a holocaust denier. It's just a phrase the media likes to pin on them.

If anyone is interested in the real numbers....

www.air-photo.com...

judicial-inc.biz...

From the International Red Cross...

judicial-inc.biz...

And all of this can be found here....

judicial-inc.biz...

That should do it. And what people don't understand is that most of the people who were "murdered" after the fact were murdered by American Dwight Eisenhowers liberation, read extermination, hide the evidence so we can create sympathy for a rouge government later to be known as Israel. Just look at what they have done to Palastiniens.

Originally posted by ancient_wisdom

if you watch any video of David Irving or any other "denier" for that matter, they almost always deny the fact that they are a holocaust denier.

Funny that, the same way any criminal denies they committed a crime, smokers refuse to accept that they are drug addicts, etc.

Irving IS a holocaust denier, that is a fact.

Replace denier with skeptic and the whole tone changes from one of "self delusion" to scientific scrutiny, so you can see why the term has been used to empower the accuser with a weapon.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by mazzroth]

David Irving is not a Holocaust denier. He's far more complex, more dangerous a character than that.

He's an English historian, a very good one, whose views on the Holocaust have ranged from ambivalence to denial and now to acceptance. His opinions have changed because even now he's still ploughing through historical documents, unearthing new information.

My only criticism of him is that he consistently gives the then German authorities the benefit of the doubt and slants his documentary evidence in their favour. To that extent he's a historian with his own agenda and a man on whom we cannot rely.

But he's a damned good read & I recommend anyone with an interest in the Second World War to consider his works, most of which are free to download and published in their entirety on his website.

www.fpp.co.uk...

Originally posted by Ulala
David Irving is not a Holocaust denier.

Yes he is, read above.

He's an English historian, a very good one,

No he is not

"Evans and his two assistants spent more than two years examining Irving's work, while gathering evidence to support the claim that Irving had misrepresented evidence to support his prejudices. Evans suggested that in his view, Irving had knowingly used forged documents as sources, and that for this reason, Irving could not be regarded as a historian. Evans' report was the most comprehensive, in-depth examination of Irving's work:
“ Not one of [Irving's] books, speeches or articles, not one paragraph, not one sentence in any of them, can be taken on trust as an accurate representation of its historical subject. All of them are completely worthless as history, because Irving cannot be trusted anywhere, in any of them, to give a reliable account of what he is talking or writing about. ... if we mean by historian someone who is concerned to discover the truth about the past, and to give as accurate a representation of it as possible, then Irving is not a historian."
www.holocaustdenialontrial.org...

and

"The judge, Peter Liebtreu, summarized:
“He showed no signs that he attempted to change his views after the arrest warrant was issued 16 years ago in Austria.... He served as an example for the right wing for decades. He is comparable to a prostitute who hasn't changed her ways.... Irving is a falsifier of history and anything but a proper historian."

www.jewsnotzionists.org...

I like what the Jews have to say on the matter, not the Zionists but the actual Jews.

reply to post by dereks


The thread is titled "the real holocaust revisionists" not "is David Irving a Holocaust denier or not"

The only reason I mentioned Irving was because he talks about the judge who ludicrously can not say "deny the holocaust" because then the judge himself would be guilty of the crime. But of course you don't want to address THAT point.


[edit on 24-12-2009 by ancient_wisdom]

Let me tell you about a personal experience I had that will be with me the rest of my life.
I was waiting to get an MRI this summer and I have a German last name, so German that most people can`t pronounce it most of the time. While in the waiting room a middle aged couple brought in a old man on a walker and sat him down in the chair and I heard them tell the nurse their last name was +++++ a very Jewish name and I got to looking at the old man and he had a tattoo of numbers running up and down his arm.
Finally the nurse called me for my MRI and she did pronounce my German last name right for once and they all three looked at me like I was the devil. It did not occur to me unitl I left what the tattoo was. I came home and looked it up on the internet and It was an Auschwitz prison camp tattoo. I have never been so ashamed to have a German name as I was that day.

reply to post by Iamherefornow


Hold you head proud son, you have done nothing wrong. To suffer from some kind of generational guilt is what the system wants you to endure and its wrong. I am Australian and I have done absolutely nothing bad to the Indigenous population in this Country but I am compelled to feel it by the authorities here for some reason or other that only makes you feel bad.

To all the blamers out there that think its their duty to inflict guilt onto any race for crimes their ancestors committed you are pathetic and make me sick to the core.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by mazzroth]

To question why denial is a crime is to imply that it's a cover-up. To determine the meaning of a cover-up, simply follow the money

reply to post by Iamherefornow


I agree with what mazzroth says, why should you feel guilty for something your German ancestors have done? I do not feel guilty for my white ancestors who killed the Native Americans, because I am against their genocide and "manifest destiny". Instead, I am driven to despise their actions and choose not to follow in their footsteps. So long as you know what is right, why should you feel guilty for something someone else has done?

Originally posted by ancient_wisdom
erichunt.net...

Auschwitz officially changed their Holocaust number from 4 million to 1 million Jews murdered. Holocaust exterminationists like to call Holocaust deniers "revisionists" as if a historical event is ever 100 percent absolutely known and therefore history can never be revisited or revised. And yet, the official story of the holocaust is continually revised and edited, as in this example. erichunt.net...

What a surprise, some more pathetic deception from a Neo-Nazi website.

Anyone with knowledge of WWII knows that Auschwitz-Birkenau was just a network of concentration camps. Only a fraction of the Jewish extermination program centred around concentration camps where people were sernt to be worked to death.

Holocaust deniers avoid the actual mass murders that took place in the death camps - slaughterhouses where Jews were shot and buried the day of arrival. Nor do they acknowledge the mass exterminations of Jews carried out in occupied Poland, Czechkoslovakia, Romania, Hungary, Serbia, etc. under direct Nazi supervision. Typically one bullet per Jew was allocated to townsfolk and coucilmen. Undocumented mass graves still turn up.

Sorry folks, 6 million Jews were systematically killed. But that shouldn't stop hate obsessed lunatics playing pseudo-historian from trying to prove otherwise.

reply to post by mmiichael


I detect your fair share of hate.

I have never been so ashamed to have a German name as I was that day.

I second what others have said, Be Proud To Be A German. If you look at your history and can clearly see where you guys went wrong and be able to admit it then I think you are a Full Human Being. Those that react as you describe have not come to this reflective understanding. I would call it a childish reaction.

Had you sat there and said to them "You ugly Jew, you deserved what you got" THEN I would understand it. Had you had a swastika with Hitler on it pined to you jacket, I would understand the reaction. Otherwise I see such reactions as being very childish. A lot of this around today and in the past.

Dresden Silence ......

reply to post by Iamherefornow

Originally posted by Iamherefornow
I have never been so ashamed to have a German name as I was that day.

Jew here.

DO NOT be ashamed of your heritage simply for what your people did to my people. It is not your fault your forefathers or ancestors committed these crimes against my people. Be proud of your heritage, germany has made great contributions to our world. You can't hold yourself responsible for a madman deceiving a nation.