'Lost:' Season Six Discussion...

Originally posted by chissler
As Locke is to the Man in Black, is this the same as Sayid to Jacob? It would appear to fit. But there are so many ways to go about it.

I never even thought of that but it would work. I am really hoping that after following this series, that it isn't a let down at the end. The start of this season has really peaked my interest and I find myself watching even closer to see if I can make sense of some of it.

Even having a character doing something mundane grabs my interest as "what if this is important?" comes to mind.

If it ends as MASH did, I shall be very disappointed..:shk:

Originally posted by chissler
As Locke is to the Man in Black, is this the same as Sayid to Jacob? It would appear to fit. But there are so many ways to go about it.

Can't be. Everyone seems to be reaching this conclusion, but it wouldn't make sense from a writing point of view, hear me reasoning.

Man in Black is not taking John Locke's body, he is merely taking his form because Locke's body is lying dead on the beach. It wouldn't make sense for Jacob to actually inhibit Sayid's body and not just take his form since there is only one of Sayid's body. IMO it would be bad plot writing.

What really got me was when Man in Black told Richard, "its good to see you out of those chains", or along those lines... then it hit me. You guys remember the Black Rock and when they visited it to get the dynamite they found chains hanging off the walls? Richard was a prisoner on the Black Rock?

Also... THE ONLY WAY Juliet would have known that "it worked" would be if she was in BOTH her realities at the same time. Thats why when James woke her up she was mumbling something about getting coffee and mentioned someone else's name, she was in her other reality. Upon realizing where she was, she wanted to tell James that it worked.

I think the same thing will happen with Sayid, he'll start remembering things from his other reality, which is strange since we didn't see him on the flight that landed. When Sayid was 'dead' he definitely told Miles something because Miles had the same facial expression when he was talking to dead Juliet.

Oh man such a headache...

Originally posted by serbsta
Man in Black is not taking John Locke's body, he is merely taking his form because Locke's body is lying dead on the beach. It wouldn't make sense for Jacob to actually inhibit Sayid's body and not just take his form since there is only one of Sayid's body. IMO it would be bad plot writing.

I wonder, though, why is he keeping Locke's form? It can't be just so Terry O'Quinn has a job, right? What I think is that the Man in Black's real form is the monster, but he incarnates himself in other forms (such as people) in order to better fit in. Fans have always speculated that the monster takes various forms in people, and this may be true. (Actually, it is true since Season Six's first episode confirms it.)

Richard was a prisoner on the Black Rock?

I don't think so. The Black Rock, according to Locke, probably set sail from Africa, so I am thinking that it was filled with African slaves. Also, Illana called Richard "Ricardus," so Richard's past is most likely much more ancient than the slave trade.

Also... THE ONLY WAY Juliet would have known that "it worked" would be if she was in BOTH her realities at the same time. Thats why when James woke her up she was mumbling something about getting coffee and mentioned someone else's name, she was in her other reality. Upon realizing where she was, she wanted to tell James that it worked.

Beat ya to it:

Originally posted by they see ALL
Quick theory: When our characters die (or are about to die) on the island, they see a vision of themselves in the "parallel universe," which is the universe where, among other things, Flight 815 lands at LAX. This is evidenced by Miles saying that Juliet said the plan worked, and may also be evidenced by Juliet saying something about getting coffee to Sawyer when she was about to die. Also, Miles may have heard Sayid, after he died, say something about existing in the parallel universe too since it appeared that Miles was lying about not hearing Sayid (or something like that). We will have to wait and see if Sayid remembers anything like this though.

When Sayid was 'dead' he definitely told Miles something because Miles had the same facial expression when he was talking to dead Juliet.

Agree.

Originally posted by they see ALL

I wonder, though, why is he keeping Locke's form? It can't be just so Terry O'Quinn has a job, right? What I think is that the Man in Black's real form is the monster, but he incarnates himself in other forms (such as people) in order to better fit in. Fans have always speculated that the monster takes various forms in people, and this may be true. (Actually, it is true since Season Six's first episode confirms it.)

True, but it goes against any perceived symmetrical duality between Jacob/MIB.

I don't think so. The Black Rock, according to Locke, probably set sail from Africa, so I am thinking that it was filled with African slaves. Also, Illana called Richard "Ricardus," so Richard's past is most likely much more ancient than the slave trade.

Hmmm... well knowing how things go in this show I wouldn't be surprised by a twist or a turn. I think we should still keep the Black Rock as a big possibility for Richard's origins onto the island.

Ricardus though, sounds Roman. So there's another possible route. But I was always hoping that Richard came with the original people who built the statue, but since they were Egyptian and his name is Roman there's very little chance of this being so.

[edit on 4/2/2010 by serbsta]

Originally posted by serbsta
Ricardus though, sounds Roman.

Yeah, Ricardus sounds very ancient, so that's why I think his origins are older than the Black Rock.

Here are multiple previews for episode 6.03, entitled "What Kate Does:"

US Promo #1...
US Promo #2...
Canadian Promo...
Sneak Peak (actual clip of the episode)...

This one looks like quite a ride! Also, take a look at this promo for the first episode of the season. Actually, I want you to notice the very interesting screen shots from this promo. We have not seen some of these scenes just yet, so they are from upcoming episodes. A couple of interesting things we see are Locke climbing down a rock wall (and it appears that a guy is falling down), Jack in what appears to be a tower breaking mirrors, and Sawyer talking to Locke! What a great ride this last season will be!

Desmond?

Why? How? ...when?

So many questions surrounding this character from the premiere. Really driving me crazy!

Shannon?

Why didn't she get on the plane with Boone?

Jack's cut?

Where did that cut on his neck come from? Why doesn't Hurley believe he is cursed? Did all those misfortunes not happen in this "flashsideways"?

Christian & Locke's Knives

So Christian is missing and so are Locke's knives. However, on this timeline the island is under water. What happened to Christian and why did he take the knives? What is his connection to the island if the plane never crashed? Did Jugghead not restore Christian to the pre-crash timeline?

Charlie?

Why does Charlie try to swallow the drugs instead of hiding them in the bathroom?

I want to know!

[edit on 2-4-2010 by chissler]

Originally posted by chissler
Why? How? ...when?

I know! So confusing!

Why didn't she get on the plane with Boone?

I think it's just because Maggie Grace was supposedly too busy for 'Lost'.

Where did that cut on his neck come from?

I am thinking that if a character gets hurt it one universe, that character gets (a bit) hurt in the other. This does not make since, though, because I am almost positive that if one dies (or is about to die) in one universe, that character sees a vision of himself/herself in the other. (A dead or dying character in one universe will not, however, die in the other universe, so that's why I don't think my theory on Jack's cut is right.)

Why doesn't Hurley believe he is cursed? Did all those misfortunes not happen in this "flashsideways"?

Good question!

So Christian is missing and so are Locke's knives.

Can't explain that. To be honest, I didn't think much of the knives, but every detail is important in 'Lost'.

Why does Charlie try to swallow the drugs instead of hiding them in the bathroom?

I just assumed that if Flight 815 never crashed, Charlie would attempt suicide.

Also, the Series Finale is slated for Sunday, May 23rd!?

[edit on 4-2-2010 by they see ALL]

reply to post by they see ALL


Ricardus is ancient but you would put him as far back as the builders of the statue/temple?

ETA: Take note from the LOST season 6 wiki, episode 9 has Richard listed as the main character. The episode is called 'Ab Aeterno', which means 'since the beginning of time'.

Those screen shots are interesting, especially the one which shows Locke (are you sure thats him?) scaling the cliff.

By the way, I want to leave you with a thought, because I've been thinking about this a lot and it is the only theory that makes complete sense, to me at least:

The reality from 2004 where the plane lands in LAX is the future of the reality we are witnessing in 2007 on the island. The events witnessed with 815 landing at LAX is actually the beginning of the end. What will happen is the reality on the island (2007) will lead to an event which will put them on the flight and the island under water, because we still don't know how this happened. Does that make sense to you?

I assume we'll find out how Jack got that mark on his neck, why Hurley is suddenly lucky, why James is so nice, why Charlie is so down, why Jack has his mark and why he seems to have regained his faith, etc.

So what I'm saying is that the events that are happening now in 2004 are not paralleling the events in 2007, they are what happens after the end of this season in the 2007 period.

EDIT: Didn't see there were two more posts. Chissler I think my theory offers an answer to most of your questions.

EDIT #2: I'm almost certain that there ARE NO "FLASH SIDEWAYS". They are showing what happens at the end of the 2007 timeline!

[edit on 4/2/2010 by serbsta]

[edit on 4/2/2010 by serbsta]

[edit on 4/2/2010 by serbsta]

Originally posted by they see ALL
I am thinking that if a character gets hurt it one universe, that character gets (a bit) hurt in the other. This does not make since, though, because I am almost positive that if one dies (or is about to die) in one universe, that character sees a vision of himself/herself in the other. (A dead or dying character in one universe will not, however, die in the other universe, so that's why I don't think my theory on Jack's cut is right.)

We don't know about Jack's cut for a good reason.

It hasn't happened yet.



[edit on 4/2/2010 by serbsta]

Originally posted by serbsta
Ricardus is ancient but you would put him as far back as the builders of the statue/temple?

Definitely. Even Ben said that Richard has had his job a very, very long time.

Those screen shots are interesting, especially the one which shows Locke (are you sure thats him?) scaling the cliff.

Sure does look like him (green shirt, backpack).

The reality from 2004 where the plane lands in LAX is the future of the reality we are witnessing in 2007 on the island.

I like this. I read a theory like this just now.

I assume we'll find out how Jack got that mark on his neck, why Hurley is suddenly lucky, why James is so nice, why Charlie is so down, why Jack has his mark and why he seems to have regained his faith, etc.

Nice, but why, then, don't they remember the past events of 2007? Also, you mentioned Jack's cuts twice (I found this funny).

Originally posted by they see ALL

Nice, but why, then, don't they remember the past events of 2007? Also, you mentioned Jack's cuts twice (I found this funny).

Sorry, must have been all the editing.

I don't think they remember quite clearly but you could tell on the plane that they didn't feel quite right. Jack was giving Desmond weird looks asking if they've met, he was also giving weird looks to Rose when she was comforting him during the turbulence on the plane when it was him who did this to her originally.

Sawyer and Hurley exchanged a weird glance as well.

I think they only vaguely remember, kind of like experiencing deja vu. There's no reason the writers would've inserted all those scenes where they obviously shown to be feeling uncomfortable for a reason.

Deja vu is my bet.

Originally posted by serbsta
I don't think they remember quite clearly but you could tell on the plane that they didn't feel quite right. Jack was giving Desmond weird looks asking if they've met, he was also giving weird looks to Rose when she was comforting him during the turbulence on the plane when it was him who did this to her originally.

Remember, though, Jack saw Desmond at the track sometime before 815 took off, so I guess this is where he remembers Desmond from. Nice catch on the inversion of the roles of Jack and Rose to each other!

Sawyer and Hurley exchanged a weird glance as well.

Didn't catch this. I'll probably watch the episode again just for the hell of it (and, of course, because it's such a great show).

Deja vu is my bet.

I like this though.

Originally posted by they see ALL

Remember, though, Jack saw Desmond at the track sometime before 815 took off, so I guess this is where he remembers Desmond from. Nice catch on the inversion of the roles of Jack and Rose to each other!

Do you find it odd though that only Jack actually saw Desmond and then he mysteriously vanished from his seat without anyone else seeing him (despite Rose claiming she was asleep)? Why would they insert the scene where Jack is asking where Desmond is for no reason? Was Desmond even there or just a figment of his imagination... I hope not.

The more I think about it though, the more significant it seems. I don't think it really matters whether or not Jack and Desmond met at that race track in this reality, there has to be a reason why Jack was the only one that saw him... do you find it odd at all that Jack was talking to Desmond at the EXACT time that the plane flew over the sunken island?

Doesn't Desmond have the 'timeline flashing syndrome' anyway... it could be possible that he just flashed into the plane as they entered the sunken islands air space since no one else apparently saw him.

Just some random thoughts.

Originally posted by serbsta
Just some random thoughts.

Anything's possible with this show.

Ok, if The Island were destroyed we'd have to assume that Charles Widmore's path would also change which would lead to Desmond never training for the race, thus never meeting Jack, so I gotta think that its more of a deja vu thing on the plane....maybe, just a thought. Another question is could the Island sinking be somehow relevant to the Blackrock ending up in the middle of the Island, or to the destruction of the Statue?? Can't wait till tonight! Keep up all the good theories and comments!!

Originally posted by serbsta
Man in Black is not taking John Locke's body, he is merely taking his form because Locke's body is lying dead on the beach. It wouldn't make sense for Jacob to actually inhibit Sayid's body and not just take his form since there is only one of Sayid's body. IMO it would be bad plot writing.

I think it's tough just to write it off that easily. You said why wouldn't Jacob just take the form of Sayid; but Jacob can't take the form of Sayid because Jacob is dead. Hugo is the only one able to see Jacob, at least at this point in time. Also remember the last episode the two guys(at the temple) told Hugo and the gang to get Sayid to the fountain. Upon arriving the two guys(korean guy/translator... sorry I'm missing names) comment on how the water's color is off. Not word for word here but something like, "What happened?... The waters not clear". So I'm thinking a little more happened then just the usual clear water re-birth. Just a suggestion but I think there's going to be a bit more to Sayid then meets the eye. Thats without saying Jacob taking Sayid's body is the only possibility but it is one.

[edit on 9-2-2010 by NoJoker13]

Originally posted by NoJoker13
Just a suggestion but I think there's going to be a bit more to Sayid then meets the eye.

That is definitely true, especially considering (a bit spoilerish) that Sayid will be tortured by the new Others (as seen in the second US promo).

Here is a theory I am working on:

I think, based on the first scene in the finale of last season, that the Man in Black is more of an isolationist, while Jacob is more liberal. What I mean by this is that the Man in Black is not happy when newcomers travel to the island, and Jacob, on the other hand, essentially invites people to the island.

Jacob brought the ship (the Black Rock?) to the island, brought at least some of the people on Flight 815 to the island (by making sure they stay on a certain path), and brought Ilana and her group to the island (by asking her for her help). The Man in Black, as the Monster, kills certain people, such as the pilot of 815, who may have been killed because he could have helped the survivors get rescued. (This is a bit of a stretch though.)

What I am really interested in is the Monster killing Mr. Ecko because the Monster judged Ecko, by wanting him to repent for his sins, but Ecko did not, and was killed. This coincides with the Man in Black's view of newcomers who come to the island (he said that they fight, destroy, and corrupt). Maybe the Man in Black wants to do whatever it takes to protect the island's original inhabitants. The Man in Black is very critical of newcomers, and may only accept them if they admit their wrongdoings.

Also, I think that Jacob always was higher than the Man in Black in the hierarchy since the latter had to have a loophole in order to kill the former (and, of course, because the Others look up to Jacob, and not the mysterious other guy). I am having trouble, however, with explaining the "true form" of the Man in Black. The hieroglyphics in the Temple seem to show that the Monster is a very ancient tool for judging people, so was the Man in Black first in the form of the guy who we saw in last season's finale, or was he always in the form of the Monster (or neither)?

I am thinking that Jacob turned the Man in Black into the Monster as a punishment (and also, apparently, banned him from his home). Why would Richard be in chains though? Maybe Richard was punished too by Jacob, but was redeemed. Maybe, even, the Man in Black was once in charge, and he had Richard in chains for something, but, upon Jacob taking control, Richard was freed. Maybe Richard was more liberal with newcomers like Jacob is.

There's too little unknowns to make any good theories, so I am having trouble right now with this one. Hopefully, though, I gave you all a nice read while you wait for tonight's new episode!

EDIT:

I thought that the Man in Black said that he liked Richard better in chains, but he actually said that it's good that Richard is out of the chains, so I don't know how this affects my theory. Maybe they were friends, but now maybe they are not.

[edit on 9-2-2010 by they see ALL]

Now Claire is really back! This episode was okay, kind of slow-paced, but towards the end it picked back up. So Sayid is sick, and so is Claire. Is this the same sickness that Rousseau was always weary of? What does the sickness do? Make people follow the Man in Black? And what is the deal with everyone being brought to the island? Everyone except Jacob and his nemesis? So many questions!

I was thinking why Claire was about to have Aaron so quickly in comparison to when she actually had him, and I came to the conclusion that it is due to Kate being with her (because Kate was with her when she originally had Aaron). I first thought it may be due to the stress Clarie must have felt when she found out that the lady didn't want Aaron anymore, but I like my theory better. And what is up with Claire getting the name Aaron out of nowhere? Is the Island/destiny making things the way they should be? Again, more question!

EDIT:

I knew I saw Aldo somewhere before!

[edit on 9-2-2010 by they see ALL]

reply to post by they see ALL


I agree the episode was a bit slow paced, but it did give us quite a bit more insight to whats going on. Sayid has apparently been infected by someone trying to claim his body ans Claire shows up to gun down two people at the end of the episode. Alot of questions to be discussed lets see whats one would be the best to start it.... Hmmm how bout who's Jack's sister?

Originally posted by NoJoker13
Hmmm how bout who's Jack's sister?

That's an easy one. She is, in fact, Claire! (Actually, she is his half-sister, but I guess they rounded up.)