The reality of our existence here on Earth - The real truth..?

Originally posted by socrates271
Interesting story, but where are your sources?

I never claimed to have any sources. I would love to be able to prove my theory but unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to do so. If anyone here has any evidence that fits with my theory, please let me know.

I have to go for now and may not be back on for a few days but please keep posting and giving your opinions. I will start writing and researching at a very slow pace so that one day, the above theory will be much more complete.

Thanks

Nice story reminiscent of Stargate. Unfortunately as said before it's Sci-Fi. And sorry to say it but it is even science-fantasy. Too many incoherences in the story.



But there is one passage where you are very right, close to the end of your post :

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
Today, humanity has evolved and destroyed it's own kind many times over and the real history of our ancestry is forgotten and left open to speculation and so-called science. Much of the truth has been preserved in religious text but over the years has been misinterpreted and this in itself is now unreliable.

Just because written history exists for something like 5 thousand years, we tend to think that men from the ancient times were hunter/gatherers with limited knowledge.

This is a big mistake. The human brain didn't evolved much since the last tenths of thousands of year. People from 25.000 years ago were probably very close to us, with relatively similar inventivity, concerns, skills etc.

If you take a look at the writings on Pompeï walls, you wil be struck at how modern they seem, yet they are 2000 years old ! Thinking that today's men are more evolved than in the past, and so that men from thousands of years ago couldn't achieve great things, is such a big mistake...

reply to post by spinalremain


The problem is, we (humans) think we know everything. We think our techniques for dating finds is accurate, we think because our scientists have an answer for practically everything, they are correct. Truth of the matter is, they find what they think is true and publish it. Can you think of any instances where scientists were wrong..? I think you could possibly find a few.

As for the comment by the previous poster, how on earth can you say that aliens have visited us. At least I am not claiming my theory to be 100% true or accurate, you claim your opinion as though is fact. I would like to see your evidence if this is true.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Cute fiction. A rather old and recycled plotline, but eh, then what isn't these days. Could be interesting provided he leaves the semi-science as a footnote backstory or loose theme and works on character and plot development.


Only applicable in case the OP was seriously promoting that idea as "truth". If it was mere fiction, then disregard as non-applicable.

In the event the OP was intended to be some serious proposition regarding some hidden history of mankind... epic failure. In that light, it seems to be yet another desperate grasp of a needy ego to vehemently push back against the mountains of evidence to take hold of their geocentric universe and affirm their position as anything other than insignificant when scaled against the incomprehensible abysse of time and space.

Carl Sagan suggested that we are composed of the stuff of long dead stars. The heavier elements in our bodies forged in the supernova of early super-massive stars. If we can in any way consider ourselves by this to poetically be the expression of a universe beginning to awaken and know itself. Then I would consider the OP to be that fear of the dark tempting the security and warmth of safety blankets and storybook fantasies.

This is a nice fantasy but seems highly inconsistent with known science.

Highly inconsistent? That's putting it fairly lightly. I'd say it's more like the theory slipped every scrap of science since the enlightenment a roofie, then proceeded to viciously and brutally rape it while it was semi-conscious and helpless to stop or protest the violation.

the real history of our ancestry is forgotten and left open to guesswork and so-called science.

Spoken like a true scientific illiterate.

Science is a methodology for discovering and explaining the world around us in purposeful means yielding practical application. It is an ever improving methodology, provided the improvements proposed can be shown to be demonstrably more efficient than without them. If you have a problem with science, you're more than welcome to renounce all the technological and scientific understanding your currently enjoy - including fresh water, modern indoor plumbing, heating for your home in winter, electricity, as well as your computer and internet. After all, some of the very same "So called Sciences" your story violates are helping to keep your computer monitor on and working as you read this.

No... fat chance that'll ever happen, right? I mean... you know as well as I know that despite the protests and claims of inefficiency - that in the final analysis, science works. It's the difference between posting Space Bible Odyssey & anti-science views ON the internet - and having the practical understanding of reality necessary to even BUILD such a thing as the internet for you to post on.

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
I never claimed to have any sources. I would love to be able to prove my theory but unfortunately I don't have the time or the resources to do so. If anyone here has any evidence that fits with my theory, please let me know.

Sorry for you but it is quite the opposite :

- Homo sapiens and neanderthalensis share (can be proven) common ancestry, hence the genus "Homo"
- Your story should take place around 100.000 ago according to your description of event. I doubt anyone can prove the conditions on Mars were any different from today at that time. The dry riverbeds found on Mars are 3.8 BILLIONS years old.
- It also mean that there should be a MAJOR extinction (meteor impact) around that time. There was none.
- Also a starfaring race, capable of building an interplantery "Ark", would probably build something else than pyramids to watch the skies. I don't know, something like telescopes maybe ?
- Many other incoherences but I wil stop here.

reply to post by andy1033


it`s funny you should say that this planet could be hell,i`ve wondered this many times because the way to get ahead in life on this planet is by taking a huge dump on your own kind then using them as a doormat to rub it all in

reply to post by Lasheic


Many valid points. Lets's keep ATS simple and only post what we know to be true eh? That should keep the site owners ticking along nicely.

You make many assumptions about my state of mind which can in a sense be compared to my opinions of our origins.

However, I can prove one thing, my state of mind can be confirmed and thoroughly backed up by myself. I am quite comfortable with the possibility of absolutely nothing after I die but as an agnostic, I like to think about what possibilities there could be. The difference maybe between you and I (not to be offensive) are that I am an occasional visitor to ATS as the majority of the time I am working earning a living and keeping my fiancé happy. I don't have time to study science as it is not my field (evidently this is quite clear). I am also considered fairly intelligent and sociable. I'm not a loner sitting in a dark room making up wild theories as you may have assumed.

It may be wild and defy many laws of modern science but it also could have at least a thread of possibility to it. One day someone will pull the right thread and the whole thing will unravel.

reply to post by fiftyfifty


I wonder just how much of that post I'm responding to would have been removed if you had even a basic understanding of the scientific method. Just understanding the role of one aspect - falsification - negates almost the entire criticism.

You're not exposing or critiquing flaws in science... you're critiquing the flaws in a misconception which doesn't even exist except in your own perception.

Is it too much to ask that you and others don't hamstring the very process which sustains the infrastructure necessary for the advancement of society and your standard of living? Or at the very least, get an honest and accurate understanding of just what the hell it is you're trying to critique in the first place.

Found this pic based on Von Luschan's chromatic scale showing areas indigenous skin colour. Areas with greater sun exposure tend to have darker skinned people.

The darkness of the skin is determined by its exposure of UV light from our sun. Your body creates melanin to protect it from UV lights.

So if the Homo-sapiens on Mars lived deep underground inside the planet wouldn't they be shielded from UV lights and wouldn't need melanin, so they would probably been very pale, just one of the flaws i noticed in theory.

Interesting theory but too much doesn't make sense.

reply to post by Lasheic


Who said I was trying to criticise science anyway? I have a pretty good understanding of science in many areas. Science on this topic is not my forté and I may have embarrassed myself to the historians and scientists among us in this arena but I am not a complete science retard. Sometimes you need to learn that not everyone knows as much as you about a particular subject. However, I applaud and respect your intelligence and the reason most of us post on here is to either fly or fall... this one fell and I now know that at best, this should be kept within the confines of my head and at best as a sci-fi story. Thank you for your input.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by fiftyfifty]

reply to post by Signals


Ehhh, off topic first : I am humbled by your Most Favorite ATS member down there. It was such an wierd event, I felt I must click it, as I clicked I felt some kind of revealing coming.. And there I was..

To the OP :

Nice 'computing' there.
I think based on some 'people' on c2c among others, that maybe, just maybe Earth.Mars and Venus may have been orbiting the ancient planet Tiamat/lucifer, I'm not sure my self, I dont think it ads up to nicly, but some thing is clearly not as we are told..

reply to post by fiftyfifty


I think you got the dark skin/light skin thing backwards. Dark skin is a protection against the suns ultraviolet rays so dark skinned homo sapiens would have evolved on Earth and not on Mars. If your spelling is correct I think you'll get an A on this paper, good luck.


[edit on 18-12-2009 by cripmeister]

reply to post by fiftyfifty


i used to say i was agnostic before started looking into all these topics and finding out that nostic means knowing and agnostic means unknowing,know i sway towards the spiritual of being infinite consciousness having an experience as who i am now in this dimension

I have an alternate to that theory which I argue can be proved by evidence:

Earth:
At about 4.5 billion years old, the Earth has been around needless to say a LONG time. I believe and I think the evidence supports my theory that possibly up to 1 billion years ago, life began here and proceeded to evolve into a highly technological society maybe even with the potential of space exploration. After possible hundreds of millions of years that civilization and all traces of it were wiped out by a global disaster. Over the course of millions of years through volcanic and tectonic activity all traces of that previous civilization were buried under miles of the Earth's crust. What other explanation can there be for objects of intelligent design that have been dug out of coal seams and underground mines at various locations around the world? All those out of place objects have to have some explanation. The one I have offered is really the only plausible one and given the quantity of items that have surfaced over the centuries..not all of them can be hoaxes. Think about it... a billion years ago..a society sprang up and flourished only to be totally destroyed and buried in the dust of time..with only an occasional clue to their existence being discovered.
That could explain the ruins on the moon...instead of ET.

MARS:

Same thing a society evolved and was wiped out by some huge cataclysm leaving only a few clues that can be seen today after millions of years of severe climate. When we arrive there in person, the real truth of that civilization will be revealed.

Man is not really capable of comprehending the vast reaches of time or the effect of time and nature on the objects of his creation. One may attempt to debunk my theory, however there are the objects that are out of place that there is as I see no other explanation for those objects and their origin.

Very enjoyable reading, I always thought what if Mars once had life (human life) and migrated here to escape their planets destruction. Very well written and thought provoking! Thank yoU! I will star this !


People in this thread are killing it based on "inconsistances" that they're not addressing. Whether there re inconsistances or not, I think the point of the thread is the idea that life could have evolved on both Mars and Earth and somehow we here on Earth have ties to ancient Mars. I think people should stop disecting the OPs post word by word and think of the IDEA behind it and build on it.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by Cydonia2012]

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
Many millennia ago, life began to evolve on two planets orbiting a small star in the milky way. This star was known as Sol. The two planets, Mars and Earth lived side by side but without any knowledge of what existed sometimes as close as just 35 million miles away. Earth, a bright blue planet broken up by lush green forests and plains, was inhabited by many types of life, large reptiles known as dinosaurs being the dominant species There were also colonies of white skinned neanderthals dotted around the planet and they relied on their tool making and hunting skills for survival. Mars, a colder planet made of rusty coloured mountains and desert broken up by shiny red rivers pumped to the surface from deep inside the planets interior and red leaved plants was much colder and had less diversity but a much more advanced civilization... the dark skinned homo-sapien. The dark skin absorbing as much of the weak suns energy as possible. The homo-sapien had evolved on the planet over millions of years and lived largely underground and in caves within mountains. They also built structures on the surface which allowed cultivation of plants and mammal life to be possible. The harsh climate of Mars meant that outdoor farming was not possible all year round.

The Homo-sapiens over time, developed technologies allowing their curiosity of the stars above to become reality. They had evolved to a stage where they had the tools and technology to seek out nearby planets and what else lurked in the dark beyond. They manufactured a vehicle capable of travelling to their nearest neighbour and soon would be able to discover what they could only previously have dreamt.

The name of this vehicle would later be known as 'The Ark'. The Ark was ready, preperations to travel to Earth were underway and soon, Earth and Mars would come together close enough for the Ark to make the distance.

The journey would be delayed - A cluster of asteroids emerged from behind the sun and impacted both planets. One asteroid hit Earth with magnificent force and wiped out much of the life existing on it. Mars was also hit, not only by a large asteroid but was also peppered with fragments from the Earth impact. Much of life on mars was destroyed including much of the plant life as red dust clouded the skies blocking out light from the sun for many years to come.

The Ark was ready and so were a few remaining homo-sapiens who now needed to get off the planet in order to survive. There were already food supplies including animals and plants on the ark designed originally for tests on Earth to see if Homo-sapien may be able to inhabit the blue planet. They gathered together many hundreds of survivors and animals. The long slow journey on the gigantic Ark began...

... The ark landed in the continent of what is now Africa. The desert looked similar to home so should be a perfect testing ground. Infact, it was more than perfect - the homo-sapiens thrived on earth and started to explore the diverse landscapes and started to reproduce at a fantastic rate. Travelling homosapiens eventually encountered the neanderthals and both fought wars to try and eliminate the new threat. Meanwhile in Africa - The homosapiens built a number of enourmous pyramid shaped structures designed to monitor the skies and look out for the threat which had once nearly rendered them extinct. They were rebuilt many times over, the last time they were rebuilt was during the period of 'ancient Egypt' which we are now familiar with. It was tradition to bury the owner of the buildings who were direct descendants of the original Martian Homo-Sapien within the structure on their death.

Eventually, the Neanderthal was eliminated, since the destruction of the dinosoars, mammal and bird life on earth was allowed to expand and evolve, homosapien (human) intelligence grew and humans which had travelled to and colonised other parts of the planet also evolved. With temperatures on earth warmer than mars even in some of the coldest regions, skin pigmentation varied in different parts of the planet and individual civilisations emerged.

Today, humanity has evolved and destroyed it's own kind many times over and the real history of our ancestry is forgotten and left open to speculation and so-called science. Much of the truth has been preserved in religious text but over the years has been misinterpreted and this in itself is now unreliable.

Soon, we will rediscover our history and embrace who we really are and what we have really achieved.

The truth is out there!.

50/50

EDIT - MODS, PLEASE MOVE THIS TO A MORE RELEVANT TOPIC AREA MAYBE ANCIENT CIVILISATIONS, I POSTED IN THE WRONG PLACE... SORRY AND THANKS!

[edit on 18-12-2009 by fiftyfifty]

[edit on 18-12-2009 by fiftyfifty]

Interesting thread I would love to see where you extracted this information from but fear it is classified somewhere, for some wierd reason. Wonders if your information explains who seeded both planets. S&F friend good read.

Originally posted by andy1033
I prefer the theory that planet earth is what the bible calls hell. We are all on this planet which is hell, that was described in teh bible, and we do not even know it.

Hell**** has no peace, on earth you can still watch tv, have sex, and enjoy your free time, all not present in hell.

reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts


That is always one of the things which really bugged me about claims of ancient civilizations which "HAD TO HAVE HAD" super-advanced maybe Alien Technology to move these stone effigies and blocks we have trouble with using modern tools.

But that's the thing... You're absolutely right that our ancestors weren't stupid, and that hunter-gatherer tribesmen from 10,000 BC were every bit as mentally capable as modern man. Even up to 150,000 years ago, we're practically indistinguishable... including cranial capacity. Yet it doesn't follow that they'd need super-advanced tech to move those blocks - especially when we see no other evidence of enabling technologies preceding or being prolifically used which would indicate modern day tech.

I think the reason we have so much trouble figuring out how they did it is more indicative of the fact that we don't live in their time, with their technology, and their cultures. We may well be overlooking some ingenious and very simple solution to the problems simply because we live in OUR world where we DO have the advanced tech capable of moving those large stone cuttings. So those solutions WE use tend to flavor our perception, and can lead to false conclusions or unsatisfactory answers.

Necessity is the mother of invention, and our current state of technology eliminates much of the necessity they would have had to deal with when overcoming obstacles faced every day for their very survival.

A few examples... for a long time, our most sophisticated violin manufacturing processes couldn't create a violin capable of matching the music of a well built Stradivarius violin. It's only been in the last two decades or so that they're being consistently met or exceeded (depending on who you ask, or the criteria for the comparison) the quality of these instruments which were manufactured half a century before the American Revolution. It actually was a real mystery for a long time which had no satisfactory answer. Part of the problem was that we were trying to recreate those violins with modern wood and modern lacquers on the finish. But even when these factors were accounted for, they didn't measure up to the real thing. Turns out, the "secret" was likely more of an accident. A combination of the right wood, the hands of a master craftsman, and the key being the treatment solution the wood was cured in to prevent worms from infesting the woodwork. Such a simple oversight we didn't account for in modern manufacturing attempts, but it seems to have made all the difference.

The "anti-science" belief was commonly held that the secret to the instruments sound came from the wood which was supposedly scavenged from old cathedrals and tinged by divinity of god's perfection. It had to be magic or help from the gods (to many people). After all, how else could they explain the failure of modern science (of their day) and manufacturing tech couldn't reproduce that legendary quality?

For the other example, I'm going to speculate a bit. Think of an advanced civilization which exists a thousand years into the future digging up our ruins to learn from us. The future archeologists come across the remains of an old Indycar museum and read in one of the books that a pit crew could change the tires and fill the gas tank in under ten seconds. It's not hard to image them having automation tech capable of such a feat... but, how did WE do it with real people on the ground? Could they replicate the process? Perhaps... but how much time would they loose due to nuances we accommodate for, but for which they'd have no concept of... nor much of an inspiration or insight just preforming dry runs with a research crew trying to replicate our feats. They wouldn't have the immense pressures of professional competition and the ambition of winning the race to shave seconds off or find novel shortcuts. They'd have no need to optimize their recreations of the tools used back in the day.


Heh... there's a number of people on this very forum who doubt the Moon Landings were real, as they cannot wrap their heads around people using slide rules to preform the calculations necessary for a trip to the moon or the skills to stay on course using visual markers in space.... and the Apollo missions were only about 40~50 years ago! Imagine the scene if the newbie mission control members were asked to work with the tech and conditions their predecessors did in 1969... let alone deal with all that and the critical systems failures necessitating the seat-of-the-pants improvisation of the Apollo 13 missions.


So no... I have no problems reconciling the cleverness of our early ancestors in preforming feats we can't imagine being accomplished without the benefits of a highly advanced technological society we enjoy today or supernatural/alien benefactors with a penchant for using laser beams and anti-gravity as a means to construct stone structures.


Also, I thought this was cool and appropriate. Robert Ballard discovered a shipwreck a few years ago which contained the remains of a pre-fabricated Roman Temple which was pretty much ready to be constructed on-site. Just the idea of carving and extracting them from local quarries, carried over land routes to nearby locations is impressive in itself. They were also transporting them via ships over the Mediterranean.

Picture of the shipwreck.

An interesting topic.

I was real intrigued by the idea that at one point, we as human beings have forgotten our own technological achievements. i.e. Atlantis and such.

I think according to our scientists, the Earth is about 4.55 billion years old.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, from the starting point of "written" history till now, it is no more than 5000 years. That's a real silly short amount of "time".

The dinosaurs first appeared what, some 230 million years ago?

What happened with the humans when we didn't have "written" history records? Who knows.... but if someone could put this nicely on a historical time line scale, then we can see more clearly that there was still a huge portion of "time" that's not accounted for by "written history".

You know... let's say for a second that 2012 is gonna wipe out all humans (just pretend). How long would you say... New York city will last before all buildings turn into dust? From what I understand, structures built by stones last a heck of a lot longer than steel structures. Now let's say... 20,000 years later, Earth becomes fertile with Humans again but barbaric humans. Will these new Humans remember or even aware of their greatest achievements from 20,000 years ago? Especially when there's little to no evidence that points to the existence of such an advanced race of humans 20,000 years ago.

It's human nature to be egotistic. We all seem to agree and acknowledge the fact that the 21st century is the most advanced era for humans. What if we are wrong?

I'm not necessarily agreeing with everything in the OP but I think it's rather interesting and fun to formulate your thoughts in this direction.

Sorry for poor grammar

reply to post by fiftyfifty


OOOOOH OK. So because every single Dinosaur remnant ever found is always 20' below where the Neanderthal remains are; usually found in terms of depth, it must mean that they really coexsisted and The Powers that Be are trying to hide that fact and they ran around reburying the Neanderthal remains closer to the surface. OK. I feel better now.

I definitely agree that science is wrong sometimes. Of course it is. That's how it grows. Unfortunately, you also are wrong about Hominids coexsisting with Dinosaurs. The only place that Dinosaurs and humanoids coexisted is The Flintsones. Don't you think through the years researchers would have found 1 single humanoid bone in a dinosaur digging or a tar pit or somethin? They are seperated by Eons. That's more than speculation, it's proven.

[edit on 18-12-2009 by spinalremain]