Cops Taze Unarmed Naked Man to Death for "Walking Toward Them'

Originally posted by Gargamel
To me the taser has made these officers very lazy and unfortunatly people are dying due to said laziness.

I agree with you, but I think it also has something to do with a lawsuit and/or getting fired on the officer's end (assuming the officer touches the guy the wrong way). Even if a lawsuit didn't happen, an incident could ruin the officer's chance to advance in his career.

Unfortunately, now the officer has ruined his career nonetheless, killed a naked crazy person in the process, and will probably also become crazy for the circumstances of this incident.

Originally posted by bad man incorporated
Whoa there, dude.
Why preach the hate. These guys have big ones for even wearing the uniform as they are instantly hated/resented by 1/3 of the population.

I was tazed. I was shot in the upper body, one diode or watever went in below my left collarbone, and one at the base of my sternum.

It rendered me useless. Trust me when I say, cops' "hand to hand" is extremely limited to a small amount of effective and brutal techniques. I'd much rather be tazed. I'm way more thankfull that I wasn't shot. I didn't have any bruising, broken bones or anything. The next day I felt like I ran a marathon, but was no worse for the wear. They could have easily used the "lethel" option instead.

It was sad the dude died. No doubt. But if he hadn't died, we wouldn't even be on this thread. We wouldn't even know. The cops didn't kill him, the tazer did.

Sorry if you perceived me pushing Hate, I wasn't trying to, just showing how the situation could have been dealt with more effectively by "real men" type officers.

The same thing applies for bar security.. something I did in a biker bar as a 2nd job years ago.. and where instead of fighting anyone I would disempower them with simple martial arts grappling methods that the Police are Trained to use. Since I am only short.. under 5'6, most of the trouble makers were well above 6' and far heavier than me, as well as being hopped-up on drugs, then I can say without doubt how easy it is to "subdue" anyone by minimal force.

The problem is simply the instant use of weapons against people who there is NO NEED to use them on. This person may well not have ignored the officers, but instead may not have heard or registered their demands at the time. And herein lies the problem, Police taking that as being non-compliant without understanding what is really happening. Just as in the case of the burnt accident victim story that was posted about here on ATS recently.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
To everyone suggesting going hand to hand, please remember that officer has a loaded firearm strapped to his waist. Going hand to hand while armed with a firearm is the absolute last resort. Its too easy for the subject to get hold of it.

Yes, that loaded firearm in it's secured holster that requires an unlocking movement first to prevent that exact thing from happening? Police in my country have had the secure holster for many years and it works very well.

The problem, again, is the instant use of apparently non-lethal means when it is simpler for two officers to subdue the person qiute easily before applying handcuffs, if necessary.

Doesn't it seem like there are a lot more officers tazing people than in years before? And doesn't it seem like there are a lot more people in prison? I think we maybe need to step back on this and think a little bit. Making everybody a criminal in some way only insures that your prisons will be packed, and your citizens will hate your government.

I'd probably taze him too or take some kind of physical force. Who knew how dangerous or unstable the naked guy could be.

I mean, he's naked...and coming towards you. Take his a$$ down.

Just thought I would add my 2 cents. I am not defending either side
of the argument just thought I would add a few things from my own experiences. I have worked as a Paramedic in several New England states for about 7 years now, I have never EVER had a patient tazed, and I have only been in a few situations where physical force was necessary (I am soft spoken and quite compassionate).
In the US whenever a person makes a 911 call requesting an ambulance it is standard operating procedure to send police on the call in case anything gets out of hand. In this case the dispatchers using what is called Enhanced 911 (which is nothing more than a flip book with questions and protocols) would have dispatched a ambulance immediately upon hearing that a person that is questionably noncomplient with meds and is acting inappropriately.
As for him approaching the officers, we do not know the distance, if the man was talking to himself, if he was physically intimidating (through body language. or the size of Sasquatch). The dispatcher reports to the officer responding that he is "out of control". People that have a mental illness don't know their own strength and therefore are MUCH more dangerous.

Personally I don't mind getting my hands dirty, I probably would have been laughing at the prospect of chasing a nude man around the road (yes I have done that twice, one lady was sacrificing herself to the sun gods with a knife in her throat me and the trooper we able to subdue her, and another was out for a stroll down main street during rush hour, he was noncomplient with his meds. Mainly all of my jobs have been inner city where most police officers ride two to a car and therefore don't have the need to carry a tazer and are also well versed in subduing suspects, while rural police often carry tazers because they usually don't have backup readily available.

The reasoning behind the 300 and something deaths related to tazer use is that most people that die from a tazer (they hurt like a son-of-a-*****, I got tazed once to see what it felt like, not fun...not fun...) have either underlying heart disease, are taking certain antipsycotics, or have a physically strained heart i.e Cocaine or Meth overdoses. Current nonlethal tazers are around 20 milliamps which is equivalent to being punched in the chest at a distance of one foot. Volts don't kill Amps do

Seeing that the patient was taking antipsycotics one can make a good assumption at the medicine that patient was taking: I am gonna assume he was taking Seroquel a commonly prescribed anti Bi-polar medication. Seroquel causes a widening of your QRS complex(the contraction of your heart), and has been documented as NOT being safe to use with tazer and has a random chance of causing cardiac arrest. But how are the police supposed to know what meds he is on right(they prolly could have asked but were more than likely very tunnel-visioned)?. Listening to the tapes, the patient is still talking post the second pulse of the tazer. So contrary to popular belief he didn't die IMMEDIATLY after you can hear gasping breaths about 1 minute after getting shocked (Around 8:09) and the EMTs are already approaching the patient.
I don't believe that the tazer should have been deployed but I was not there, and it doesn't sound in the tapes that police were acting maliciously. You can hear that the EMT's acting appropriately preforming care. So I call this really a series of very very unfortunate events. The wife even thanks the police officers after they taze him! And the police even assist with CPR (14:00)

Here is the Link to the audio www.youtube.com...
There are some cops that are a**holes, but there are some very nice officers too, I have been helped by them and been in trouble by them, but to assume that all officers are malicious bully's is purely ignorant!
Sorry For the Wall of Text
FM

I would like to know, if these so-called police can not even subdue a 70kg naked man without the use of a Taser, then what the hell are we paying them to do?

My grandfather was a cop. I can literally hear him turning in his grave at the prospect of police not using their hands and resorting to Tasers in situations like this.

Now if the bloke had a knife or a big stick or something - then by all means taze him until he drops (not dead, obviously). But to feel so "endangered" by an unarmed, naked man of only 70kg's weight?

I hope those cops not only pay for what they have done, but hang their heads in utter shame for the rest of their lives.

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
I'd probably taze him too or take some kind of physical force. Who knew how dangerous or unstable the naked guy could be.

I mean, he's naked...and coming towards you. Take his a$$ down.

Yeah, you wanna see the vid on ogrish..

I know.. hehe

but you'd get the "NO GORE GTFO" mob on you.

Unless it's a different set of style on UR.

All the complainers in this thread have one thing in common -- their complaints. They don't have solutions. What would you do?

You could shoot him in the head with your service pistol and then shoot his wife and child and the child she is carrying. Or you could tickle him with a feather. What would you do?

Would you like to have a job wrestling naked men that are behaving like lunatics?

Seriously. I'd taze the freak. I'd also give the whole family a medical exam to determine if the problem had been replicated.

Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
All the complainers in this thread have one thing in common -- their complaints. They don't have solutions. What would you do?

As was already asked before, what do you suppose the police would have done 20 years ago? Do you think they would have shot him?

You could shoot him in the head with your service pistol and then shoot his wife and child and the child she is carrying. Or you could tickle him with a feather. What would you do?

Or you could subdue him as police are trained to do. They have the advantage of training, backup, and tools. It is sad that you can only think of shoot or tickle.

Would you like to have a job wrestling naked men that are behaving like lunatics?

As opposed to the fun stuff they usually get to do like pat down transvestite prostitutes and get shot at? They are police. They were not forced to be police. I would not want to wrestle naked men but I would not want to put my life at risk every day either. I am not a cop. See how that works? Seriously, do you believe that wrestling a sick naked man is the toughest thing a cop has to deal with?

Seriously. I'd taze the freak. I'd also give the whole family a medical exam to determine if the problem had been replicated.

and you would be up on charges of manslaughter as well as at the very least suspended for improper conduct in badgering the victims. Yay for you.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


So if the child had bipolar as well it has no right to life? Can I give your family a medical exam to see if your problem has been replicated? A%*hole. People like you belong in a cage.

Originally posted by Cabaret Voltaire
All the complainers in this thread have one thing in common -- their complaints. They don't have solutions. What would you do?

If I were called by the persons own family in order to HELP, certainly not kill the guy, or inflict pain.

You see this is what makes me feel ill.

The person who called the police wanted this man SAFE. But they arrive and go "Meh, taser this clown" - resulting in his death.

Ok, YOU find your son has just huffed a can of spray paint for the first time, you panic and all you can think is to call the police to help you keep him safe.

They arrive, and see your son out of control. They ignore your cries that he's not done anything, but they see him as a threat. They ignore the fact YOU called them to help, and they enact a judgment that sees him die.

They then walk away stating you are of no concern, he was a menace, and that anything you now say is of no consequence.

I bet you'd just sit there and go "All I do is complain, gee Im a complainer..."

and this VV is just plain pue unadulterated bollocks.. (the VV means pointing below).

You could shoot him in the head with your service pistol and then shoot his wife and child and the child she is carrying. Or you could tickle him with a feather. What would you do?

Would you like to have a job wrestling naked men that are behaving like lunatics?

Seriously. I'd taze the freak. I'd also give the whole family a medical exam to determine if the problem had been replicated.

Idiot.

reply to post by Lillydale


Bloody well said !!

Better than I did, Wish I'd read you first.

Star !!

I do not have the time or patience to read back through all the posts, I would just like to state that if a naked man approached me, and appears he has no intention of stopping before reaching me I would taze him. I would assume ill intentions, even though that would be tempered with thoughts that he may be mentally ill, that is why I would use the tazer and not the gun. If he died because of being tazered I would not feel that it would be my own fault.

Originally posted by space cadet
I do not have the time or patience to read back through all the posts, I would just like to state that if a naked man approached me, and appears he has no intention of stopping before reaching me I would taze him. I would assume ill intentions, even though that would be tempered with thoughts that he may be mentally ill, that is why I would use the tazer and not the gun. If he died because of being tazered I would not feel that it would be my own fault.

Can people really read the above, after they've posted and think "Yeah I really would!" ?

naked man, approaching me, must tazer.

It's comical.

Lets consider it in other ways.

If he were fully clothed, would you just shoot him ?

Or if it was a female, would you be so quick to condemn her as a threat?

Nude woman, walking towards you, yeah I am sure most cops would just tase her.

I recently got involved in an argument were a drunk woman was taken advantage of by the very cops she sought help from.. I was called all sort of names in U2U, because I believed she should have been PROTECTED while certain people thought she was asking for it and enjoying being assaulted.

Aegh, -- it's all too much to burden my poor mind on right now, I need a stiff drink

Seems like the tazer is the pigs weapon of choice now since even an idiot can use it, no thinking required just point and zap.

Pepper spray would have been the answer here, spray him long enough to confuse him and take him down.

They haven't acquired the nickname PIG for nothing. Actually that would be flattery for these two.

reply to post by Flightmedic


Blimey, I'm trying to read your post, but wow, its like looking at wool - space things out more my friend... that is just so hard to read.. I'm trying tho..

whew


needed to ad an s.

[edit on 8/12/2009 by Ha`la`tha]

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
reply to post by Demoncreeper

 

Yea, i understand what youre saying about the "hating" going on in this site and I dont agree with most of it either but you have to admit, some of it is very justified.

And for the record, I have one brother, two cousins and even my girlfriend who all work as police officers, however it's not in the USA. They are not even allowed to hold their hands on their weapons in the holster "just in case".

Originally posted by bad man incorporated
The cops didn't kill him, the tazer did.

And I suppose you didn't post that, your computer did?

I'm actually surprised that this thread is getting so much play, considering this is nothing new here in the US, there are constant reports of the Police using the Taser inappropriately.

Again, my perspective.......

The Taser should be used as a 1-step down from using their service pistol, not as a 1-step up from giving a verbal command.