Obama: We must reverse Taliban's momentum

reply to post by SphinxMontreal



The only racist I see around is you who is calling muslim cave dwelling.

Never do you hear the correct strategy to win the war they start to rid terrorists of safe havens. Mosques!!
Let the airforce level them in a true night of shock and allah!
They won't expect it. Most of the hardcore won't survive it. Then let the Afgan army clean up those left and still want jihad.

I do not think blowing up mosques would help at all, if anything that would be counterprodcutive. Think about it, if you want jihad, it would be so much easier to get attention to the cause when your enemy blows up all of your holy places. I would be the Afghan-Soviet war all over again. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

reply to post by Nathwa


Am I missing something here as per correct facts Jihad means a self struggle to improve one's life. What has that got to do with any war?

Edit: Oh wait just realised you do not actually know what it means just heard it randomly and assumed.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by December_Rain]

In response to December_Rain
I know what jihad means, and perhaps I should clarify what I meant to say. If you have bombers blowing up your mosques in your country, then declaring jihad would be legitimate. Indeed, one then could go as far as to say that foreign occupation of your land, or at least the perception of occupation, could legitimize jihad. Nonetheless, what I meant to say is that blowing up your mosques could result in jihad. I do apologize for the initial confusion.

reply to post by Nathwa


I think you have it wrong, Jihad has nothing to do with violence. It is meant as a non violent way to improve one's own life (spiritually). It is just that religious extremist are manipulating the word and using it for their benefit.

Also my apologies I came off bit harsh, it's just that in today itself I have seen so much baseless lies and ignorance on ATS it irked me. People(not including you) are just posting same crap again and again with no facts and logic it's like Zombie Awaken allover again.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by December_Rain]

I totally agree with you, to the extent that you acknowledge the radicalist interpretation of what jihad is. However, since perception is reality, lets realize that radicals are taking the term out of its original meaning and misconstruing it to their own benefit. Thus, those who want to claim jihad can, seeing that as radicals, this is what they do in order to legitimize their violence. That was all I am trying to say.

reply to post by December_Rain


First, Shock and Awe was the name given to the opening attacks on Iraq, not Afghanistan, remember? Iraq getting blown to bits was televised. And no I don't remember any cheering crowds. I remember feeling sick to my stomach knowing how many innocent people I just witnessed getting slaughtered.

Second, I am simply stating that if we really wanted to rebuild a country we would send more aid than troops. How many of those 30,000 people we are sending understand how to rebuild a country? Not sure they go over that in basic.

You are correct that we need to stabilize that country. No doubt about it, we have a responsibility to those people. However, I hardly think our government has the best interest of the people of Afghanistan in mind.

The fact is, that with Obamas plan, we will have been in Afghanistan for 10 years before we even begin to withdraw. I hardly think one day of horror in America is worth 10 years of killing. America has become "Keyser Soze".

The longer we wage war in the middle east, the more "terrorists" we create. We are throwing gas on the fire, nothing more. This is fact. This in unarguable.

reply to post by Nathwa


Re-read the rules of engagement posts on page 1.
That is the real problem. They don't fear us.

The people in Afghanistan that we are supposed to train dont want to be trained. Most of the so called Afghan forces cant read or write, are constantly high on hash, desert their posts at the slightest provocation, and could give a rats ass about the US, or the corrupt Karzai government, which is heavily involved in the opium trade. It is a totally hopeless situation, into which we should have never entered. In a year and a half, the situation will be much worse than it is today--because the people DONT WANT US THERE, and resent the the bombs we constantly drop on the heads of their relatives.

The only solution to this war is to GET THE HELL OUT, and stop maiming young American men and women for life, for zero reason whatsoever. If Afghanistan sinks down a black hole, then we will have to bear that responsibility, but they will be a helluva a lot better off without us there. Look at Vietnam...we bailed out on it after draining as much blood as we could, and they eventually recovered and are doing fine.

How many of the 30,000 new troops will end up with their legs blown off, or horribly burned and disfigured for life? And for what? Its a disgrace, a travesty. There is no legitimacy to this war, or to our government anymore. The government should be spending its money rebuilding America, and not rebuilding Afghanistan.

We got rid of the Nazi threat in a few years.
Well thanks to whoever told Hitler to open the Western Front.
Were those the Illuminati who seem to be running things again.
They must have been behind Nam.

There's a huge harvest comming up next year and there's a need for extra securty.

reply to post by out west


There may be more truth to that than most people realize. Under the Taliban, the opium crop was only a tiny fraction of what it has become under the US occupation. The opium crop has literally exploded under American supervision...and I would bet you any amount of money that a substantial portion of the proceeds are funding CIA black ops around the world. Hell, Karzai's brother is the biggest opium kingpen in the country. Karzai is "our man", who got reinstated because of a rigged election. If we were to pull out, he would be dead in a week, and the country would probably be a lot better off.

What are some of you people talking about "destroying Afghanistan" that country was destroyed before we got there. I guess people forgot that the Taliban are a bunch of religious fanatics, they don't want a 1st world country they want their country to be as close to what the Koran tells them it should be.

That is why there is nothing to "win" in Afghanistan, the country is stuck in the 6th century with absolutely no possible way to bring it up to the 21st century. For one because most of the people don't want it, for two the "security forces" that we are "training" are Taliban sympathizers. We could spend 300 years there and nothing is going to change.

The Taliban are like cockroaches, when the pressure is put on them they scurry away and when we pack up and leave and declare "mission accomplished" they will come out of hiding and go right back to taking control of the country.

I support the troops and hope they all get home safe, but damn bring them all home and leave the extremist to their own devices.

Deny Ignorance

Obama: Promises on Afghanistan & Iraq

Remember, for much of World War 1, there was not a single shot fired on German soil.

The Germans thought they were going to win for sure. It would have seemed ludicrous to think they could lose.

After the War ended they were left in poverty and debt, out of which the likes of Hitler was able to rise and create Hell in Germany.

Sounds kind of like what is happening to America.

Pride comes before the fall, my friends.

Originally posted by December_Rain
Good move by Obama

. He promised before election he will send troops to train Afghan forces and he has yet again kept his promise.

I stand by his decsion because it is now US/UK "obligation to restore" Afghanistan to a level before Bush invaded it. USA ruined the country with it's "Shock n' Awe" and now someone has to "repair it". Make it sustainable enough for people to "live". USA CANNOT leave it like it is now, because it's USA's fault it let this happen in first place. USA is RESPONSIBLE to bring it back. USA is paying the price now for what it did to Afghanistan and Iraq under Bush regime and you simply cannot escape it.

Obama knows if he leaves Afghanistan like it is now then there will be no more USA. It will be "ex-USSR" allover again. Obama is trying to rebuild whatever he can in Afghanistan so in the end US can atleast stand with it's head up in the World and in history.

Obama is trying to build the country back so that many soldiers and civilians who have died, their deaths do not go in vain. This is not a Circus where you can enter whenever you wish and leave at your own will. This is "real world".

Welcome to the "real world".

I promise you the dead do not care anymore about words like "vain".. because they are dead. Dead is dead. Concerns for the dead are emotions carried forward by the living.

What is this metaphorical idea a region of earth defined with a name has, what?.. uh, a "head" to stand up with? huh?

So all the misery, wasted lives, suffering and DU poisoning to follow this latest US establishment fiasco of death is now a war for positive emotions; so the living can feel good about dead people, and a group of people can imagine their nations skull will be seen favorably in the future.

Ever consider it's way too late? As if 30 years from now a-lot of people around the world won't remember the US's mid east quagmire as anything but an overproduced y2k 1930s Germany drama re-run; a nation that lied to attack other nations, slaughtered innocent people 1000s of miles from father..homeland soil, tortured innocent people, kidnapped innocent people, murdered innocent people, denied innocent people due process, installed puppet govts for purely selfish motivations, violated international laws / treaties because, hey.. some US lawyers wrote a few memos that said it was all ok to devastate the lives of millions of strangers who mean us no harm.

After visiting Europe and hearing almost nothing but hate for our govt by lots of regular people, I promise you.. the USs reputation is already in the gutter. American nationalism, pride and belief in our leaders silly rhetoric ends at the US border.. our leaders are seen by a great deal of people around the world as "international clowns of death" and war criminals... strangers dont protest US policies & burn US flags for no reason.

Maybe the way to salvage or generate positive future emotions is to accomplish positive things? killing people based on lies has never been seen as positive.

Man up to wrong doing, assist a world body in prosecuting ALL suspected war criminals, apologize, leave where we are un-welcome, un-invited and un-wanted.. then pass harsh hyper restrictive reforms that ensure as a nation we as a people are never this humiliated by our leaders again...

The Afghans do not want us there, they dont want our puppet leader, our puppet security forces, or our way of life... history tells us they wont stop killing traitors who side with the occupier, ever... it's a giant waste and little more than a move to keep the war for profit machine going... and history will see it for what it is.

Training security forces is a friggn joke, as soon as soviet forces started to leave, most of the security forces russia trained abandon their positions rather than fight their brother Afghans.. the same will happen again.. same old stuff, different occupier.

S&F to the OP.

Now that the Democrats are in power "War is good"!

And the sheeple yelled at the top of their lungs-GOOOO OBBAAMMMAAA!

Oh by the way Now that the Democrats are in power "War is good"!

reply to post by BillyumH


Thank you for correcting me. Shock n Awe was in Iraq debacle. However, the live streaming of Afghan war was also done. Secondly, if you would have read the MSM/blogs and people around you majorty were cheering. There were even websites showing pictures of us army killing afghanis and iraqis. The website was later banned though. The overall mood of the people was like Christmas was my point. Ofcourse many civil minded realised there and then what was happening was wrong.

reply to post by kyred


Wow, Some powerful words there my friend. I am also an ex-military type and served for 9 years. Back then the enemy was behind a Iron curain. Now the enemy is a ghost franchise that can pop up anywhere and sends out videos once in awhile to let everyone know they are still around. This is a lost cause. To tell your enemy your stragedy, I mean that you are going to send in 30,000 plus troops and leave in 2 years???. If I was a taliban I would go into hiding, wait till they leave and come back out again. Obama has just announced the defeat of the strongest Military power in the world by these people and they are probably rejoicing right now