The Mummies' Curse: Heart Disease, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times
Topic started on 18-11-2009 @ 11:35 AM by x2Strongx
I'm going to be sure to show this one to my Wife. She thinks the reason why I have heart disease is because of what I eat... Looks like it just might be genetic instead.

Hardening of the Arteries... Well guess what... Egyptians had this problem to waaaaaaaay before fast food was around...

Source: US World News

Modern-day imaging techniques have unearthed hardening of the arteries -- or atherosclerosis, which causes heart attacks and stroke -- in mummies up to 3,500 years old.

Experts have long believed that atherosclerosis is a scourge of modern society, caused by meals snatched at fast-food restaurants and eaten in front of high-definition TVs.

"Perhaps atherosclerosis has been around a lot longer than we think. It might have been a malady affecting man long-term," said Dr. Clyde Yancy, president of the American Heart Association. "It doesn't necessarily change anything we know or do now, but perhaps some of the accoutrements of civilization are not only unhealthy now, they were also unhealthy then.

" The unusual findings were presented Tuesday at the American Heart Association's annual meeting in Orlando, Fla., and published simultaneously in the Nov. 18 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.



reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 11:49 AM by x2Strongx
reply to post by Rawhemp



Oh well... I guess I'll have to come up with some other excuse for not eating my vegetables.

I guess they must have eaten a lot of animal meat back then... Hey, I could always say the Egyptians didn't like vegetables too! Think it will work?



reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 12:21 PM by Long Lance
reply to post by Rawhemp



do you believe ancient Egyptians' diet was anything like ours? processed foods did not exist and animals, well, maybe a tiny minority had the opportunity. the question remains whether they used it or not, though.


reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 12:45 PM by Rawhemp
reply to post by Long Lance



Heart disease has nothing to do with processed foods, its caused by excess consumption of animal fats and to a lesser extent free oils. Processed foods just happen to contain a lot of these.

"They did eat animals. Drawings on the tomb showed they ate ducks and sheep and particularly salted fish,"


Agriculture was well-established and meat consumption appears to have been common among those of high social status.


Disease has nothing to do with genetics this is a cop out used by unhealthy people. There is absolutely no prove that this is true, if you think there is feel free to present it.


reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 12:55 PM by x2Strongx
reply to post by Kailassa



Yeah... I'm a meat and potatoes kind of guy. I do exercise, (Wii Fit not included :lol

One thing going for me though is i do like Onions and a lot of garlic... MMmmm

Next time the cats are laying on my chest, I'll just tell her that it's therapeutic for my heart!

Thanks for the information!

So... Since the Egyptians... well at least the rich ones that were able to be mummified, maybe this is a genetic problem that has been handed from our oldest ancestors where they only ate meat such as the Neanderthal?

Or... it was something that was inherited when our DNA was mixed with E.T.'s?


reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 01:03 PM by Rawhemp
Originally posted by x2Strongx
reply to
post by Kailassa




One thing going for me though is i do like Onions and a lot of garlic... MMmmm



Onion and garlic both are powerful antibiotics, meaning anti-life, so not only are you bombarding your system with almost indigestible meat you are killing all the beneficial bacteria that does the digestion. I would stay clear of both onion and garlic if i were you.



reply posted on 19-11-2009 @ 10:34 AM by Rawhemp
Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd.

Contrary to popular belief, dietary fat and cholesterol consumption does not cause atherosclerosis. The literature and research just doesn't support the hypothesis.




According to who?

Pooled results of dietary fat trials indicate that reduction or modification of intake of dietary fat reduces the incidence of combined cardiovascular events by 16% (rate ratio 0.84; 95% confidence interval 0.72 to 0.99) and cardiovascular deaths by 9% (0.91; 0.77 to 1.07). No effect was seen on total mortality.


www.bmj.com...

Results Each increase of 5 percent of energy intake from saturated fat, as compared with equivalent energy intake from carbohydrates, was associated with a 17 percent increase in the risk of coronary disease (relative risk, 1.17; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.97 to 1.41; P = 0.10). As compared with equivalent energy from carbohydrates, the relative risk for a 2 percent increment in energy intake from trans unsaturated fat was 1.93 (95 percent confidence interval, 1.43 to 2.61; P<0.001);


content.nejm.org...


Let me state that a high Carb, low fat diet based around cooked grains is nearly bad as a high protein/fat diet. Grains contain many anti nutrients and are highly acidic in the body.

Fruit carbs are a totally different story

[edit on 19-11-2009 by Rawhemp]


reply posted on 20-11-2009 @ 01:26 AM by jjjtir
reply to post by x2Strongx



Link to JAMA study.

Computed Tomographic Assessment of Atherosclerosis in Ancient Egyptian Mummies

Fulltext PDF
-----

Just to comment on Rawhemp's BMJ study as a neutral observer.

Notice that the authors end with "No effect was seen on total mortality."

This is what Uffe Ravnskov, a cholesterol skeptic who questions the lipid hypothesis keep pointing out. No increase in total mortality rates are to be found in such fat/cholesterol/statins studies.

But on the other side, more cardiovascular events happen. You may not die, but may suffer from chronic lack of oxygen/ischemia.

Some things about grains to take in consideration.

If you subscribe to the blood type diet, people with type A do not get acidic with all grains, despite the high protein content of some grains.

Also do not forget that whole oats and barley have the soluble fiber Beta-Glucan, which lowers blood cholesterol by acting as a bile binder/sequestrant and preventing reabsorption in the intestines, thus forcing the liver to retrieve cholesterol from the blood to manufacture more bile.

To finish, the anti nutrient in grains and legumes, phytic acid helps keep Iron levels in check.

Among the academics in the medical/biological fields, there is growing concern with Iron because it is a powerful oxidant.

Phytic acid is considered to help, not harm.

Grains pack two benefits in one food.

First, their beta glucans decrease cholesterol.

Second, phytic acid normalizes Iron and avoid interaction with hydrogen peroxide.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by jjjtir]


reply posted on 20-11-2009 @ 05:08 PM by DevolutionEvolvd
Originally posted by Rawhemp

According to who?


According to whom? According to over 60 years of clinical evidence and 200 years of observational evidence.

Pooled results of dietary fat trials indicate that reduction or modification of intake of dietary fat reduces the incidence of combined cardiovascular events by 16% (rate ratio 0.84; 95% confidence interval 0.72 to 0.99) and cardiovascular deaths by 9% (0.91; 0.77 to 1.07). No effect was seen on total mortality.


www.bmj.com...


Congratulations on finding a study that is based solely on observations and proves nothing. How many times must this be stressed. Observational studies do not prove causality. From the article:

Design: Cohort questionnaire study of men followed up for six years from 1986.


It then goes on to read:

Conclusions: These data do not support the strong association between intake of saturated fat and risk of coronary heart disease suggested by international comparisons.




Results Each increase of 5 percent of energy intake from saturated fat, as compared with equivalent energy intake from carbohydrates, was associated with a 17 percent increase in the risk of coronary disease (relative risk, 1.17; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.97 to 1.41; P = 0.10). As compared with equivalent energy from carbohydrates, the relative risk for a 2 percent increment in energy intake from trans unsaturated fat was 1.93 (95 percent confidence interval, 1.43 to 2.61; P<0.001);


content.nejm.org...


Once again, an observational study.

The notion that dietary fat causes heart disease went from a speculative hypothesis (Ancel Keys) to scientific dogma (McGovern's United States Senate Select Committee on Nutrition).

One of the more recent, legitimate studies (randomized study) that demonstrate just how effective low-carb, high-fat diets are at improving body composition and blood lipid levels is Comparison of the Atkins, Zone, Ornish, and LEARN Diets for Change in Weight and Related Risk Factors Among Overweight Premenopausal Women.

Design, Setting, and Participants Twelve-month randomized trial conducted in the United States from February 2003 to October 2005 among 311 free-living, overweight/obese (body mass index, 27-40) nondiabetic, premenopausal women.


That's the design....and the conclusion:

Conclusions In this study, premenopausal overweight and obese women assigned to follow the Atkins diet, which had the lowest carbohydrate intake, lost more weight and experienced more favorable overall metabolic effects at 12 months than women assigned to follow the Zone, Ornish, or LEARN diets. While questions remain about long-term effects and mechanisms, a low-carbohydrate, high-protein, high-fat diet may be considered a feasible alternative recommendation for weight loss.


and the most revelant to our conversation:

At all time points, the statistically significant findings for HDL-C and triglycerides concentrations favored the Atkins group (Table 3). Changes in LDL-C concentrations at 2 months favored the LEARN and Ornish diets over the Atkins diet

Parallel to the group changes in weight, the decrease in mean blood pressure levels was largest in the Atkins group at all time points. At 12 months, the decrease in systolic blood pressure was significantly greater for the Atkins group than for any other group. For diastolic pressure, the only significant pairwise difference at 12 months favored the Atkins over the Ornish group.


Blood lipid profiles were favored by the Atkins Dieters.

-Dev


reply posted on 15-12-2009 @ 02:01 PM by jjjtir
reply to post by Rawhemp



Hey Rawhemp, can we at least agree that one Big Mac with 3 slices of tomato can help with a little antioxidant power from lycopene?

Look at the bright side...

At least 1% of Big Mac isn't that bad.



reply posted on 15-12-2009 @ 02:29 PM by marg6043
reply to post by Rawhemp



That is what we all believe, has been geared to believe, but see ancient people 3 thousand years ago, where dying from hart diseases and they have clean diets no preservatives and any of the supposedly bad for your health additives that we have today.

We most wonder . . . how is that possible. . .


reply posted on 16-12-2009 @ 10:17 AM by marg6043
reply to post by Rawhemp



I think only the upper classes may have been lazy, but the rest of the people were not.

Now I agree with the meat part of it, they did eat meat specially goats as that is today one of the main meat in the diet for people in the middle east.

Compare to the Asian cultures where hart diseases only has started to show up since western influences and fast food has reached their nations.

Interesting.
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