Obama came into office like a tornado, forcing an "economic stimulus" bill on us, then turning to health care, vowing to have it passed by March, if memory serves correctly. Well, we still don't have one. When and IF the healthcare bill is passed next year, I wonder if anyone in congress, as well as the members here on ATS realized that any bill Congress passes will be unconstitutional.

The United States Government cannot, constitutionally, force American citizens to purchase healthcare insurance. This is a right reserved to the states.

The states could, conceivably pass a law which would require the citizens of that state to purchase a minium of coverage for healthcare, just as they require liability insurance for those who own a vehicle and operate said vehicle on public roads.

If we want to carry this further, most of the laws passed by congress have no bearing on the constituion and could be taken to court and overturned.

It is time for the states to call for a constitutional convention to do the following
1. Repeal the 16th amendment. It is a regressive tax system that rewards business and corporations, while punishing the everyday working stiff.
2. An amendment that sets term limits of members of congress.
3. An amendment that NULLIFIES every law passed by congress that is not covered by the the Constitution.
4. A balanced budget, and no deficiet spending.

I can hear the screams out there now. "We can't do that! There would be chaos in the government!' You think there is not chaos now? Our President spends his time traveling all over the world, instead of taking care of business. Our legislature is ignores the will of the people, instead, taking their ques from big business and their respective parties.

Never, in the history of this country have the states successfully called for a constituitional convention, but with the mood of the country, I believe we could get the required 34 states to call for a "Con Con.

My only fear is that we may not have statesmen of the quality of men that sat at the first Convention.

It would be unwise to tinker with the Constitution. Instead, an amendment should be sought. And there are other ways to stop the healthcare bill dead.

1. States could decide to reject it outright by law.

2. Citizens can sue, going directly to the Supreme Court for redress. In this option, the citizens and States, and private insurance companies would all have an argument. But the citizens would be first, and here's why.

A. Slavery was abolished in the 18th century. Forcing people to buy something with their money against their will is slavery in that such monies must be earned through work, and since there is a penalty for not doing so, it is slavery to compel the populace to buy or pay for anything against it's will or desire. The right of citizens to be free in their persona and possessions would also be infringed. In the end there are several Constitutional issues that negate any forced healthcare bill.

B. The population could simply refuse to buy the insurance and by mass numbers cause such upheaval that the Supreme Court would be forced to interfere rendering the law unconstitutional due to it's oppressive nature and intent upon the public.


In the end what is going to be left is a government option that will realistically have to compete with all other plans on a level playing field where the individual may or may not choose to buy. And because the "public option" sucks, it is doomed to fail miserably.

There are a very few GOP members who are making this claim, others in the GOP and the Dem members disagree with this premise.

Most of the constitutional scholars I've seen or heard address this believe that the bills, as currently written, are constitutional.

Add this to the witless "kill your grandma" statements.

This smacks of being the last ditch effort by those opposed to reform and in the pockets of industry special interests.

Why do you say that it's unconstitutional? Can you quote the Constitution and make your case?

Rhetoric, I doubt very seriously that this is the "last ditch effort" by the GOP. They will be dragged kicking and screaming into this bill. They know no bounds on their efforts. And will keep going after it's passed, if it is.

Even it was true that such legislation is covered by the 10th amendment and is the right of the states, the feds will just do it the same way they did the 55 mph speed limit and the drinking age.

Fed: All states will adopt this law or all federal highway funds to your state will be suspended.

Guess what, every single state will adopt it, even Arizona.

Colt45, works everytime.

I could easily make a rather long list of things that are currently in the law that are unconstitutional, but it doesn't really matter. The supreme court much like our elected representatives are deep in the pockets of special interests and these laws are long standing and though they may be unconstitutional, people have grown so used to them that they are accepted...

voting doesn't work, nor does protesting or complaining.

CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE DOES, I'm not talking about a group of 5 people which are outnumbered by a dozen cops and easily arrested, I'm talking whole neighborhoods of people who are armed and saying enough.
Non violent but standing their ground, so much so that no sane organization would even attempt to arrest even A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.

Remember folks, we outnumber them, but sadly herd mentality prevails as always and no one realizes that if we stand together even JUST a few hundred of us, they CANT TOUCH US.

Im not a fan of mandates as I believe the single payer system is the best choice for our country.

But if we cannot have single payer than everyone must have health insurance.

Why?

Because by not having it you are raising the cost of health care to unsustainable levels. When you cannot pay the costs are pushed to the people who can.

Now since we all have to get insurance three things need to happen.

1) Make it incredibly affordable.

2) Make sure our rights as consumers are protected and the insurance companies are heavily regulated.

3) The ability to form and pay into our own citizen run health care insurance company that is accountable to the people.


That is what the current House bill does.

...that and the idea that this is unconstitutional is preposterous.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by AllexxisF1]

I might also add that all powers not specifically delegated to the Federal Government under the US Constitution belong to the States and the people respectively.

Nowhere in the Constitution is there a delegated power to compel any citizen under the Constitution to purchase by force of law and under penalty of law, anything the Federal government shall decide by it's own will that person must have involuntarily.

If you cannot afford private health insurance than...

You can find much more affordable and better plans in the insurance exchange.

If you cannot afford the premiums from the plans in the exchange than you can qualify to buy into the premiums from the citizen run "Public Option" Health Insurance company.


If you cannot even afford that, than the Government will subsidize the difference so you can have good health care.


It's very simple, if you want to live in the United States you have to buy Health Insurance because if you don't it effects us all.

If you refuse to buy incredibly affordable and pay assisted insurance and then refuse to pay the penalty within your taxes, than yes you would be in deep do do with the IRS.

It's patriotic to get affordable great health care insurance so it does not bankrupt this nation. It's the patriotic thing to do your part for the sake of the country.

Republicans complain to high hell about supporting welfare Queens and illegal immigrants yet they have the absolute nerve to complain about being forced to buy great affordable health insurance that will even be subsidized if you cannot afford it. Because if you refuse to buy health insurance when its easily made available to you ...WE HAVE TO PICK UP YOUR TAB when you get sick.

Here is something that would bring down over all costs dramatically and make us a healthier more productive nation.

You know ....LIKE EVERY OTHER WESTERNIZED NATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by AllexxisF1]

Then... on the other hand...

Let's say they want to make the "Public Option" legal... Hmmm

1. It must be voluntary in all areas where it applies.

2. No person shall be compelled to "purchase" it. Therefore the Government shall offer it for free to all persons, and as such, may indiuce a legal tax as prescribed in the Constitution ( Commerce taxation and import tax)

3. It must be fair to all persons.

4. It must not cause private insurers to be damaged by any such plan by intention.

Originally posted by AllexxisF1
Im not a fan of mandates as I believe the single payer system is the best choice for our country.

But if we cannot have single payer than everyone must have health insurance.

Why?

Because by not having it you are raising the cost of health care to unsustainable levels. When you cannot pay the costs are pushed to the people who can.

Just so you know, this is what is going to happen IF reform goes through. All of those people -- yes, some of which are obese, drink too much, drive cars that won't adequately protect them, etc -- will be provided insurance BY ONLY THOSE OF US THAT THE GOV'T CONSIDERS ABLE TO AFFORD IT.

Now since we all have to get insurance three things need to happen.

1) Make it incredibly affordable.

According to whose standards? Is this going to take into account the amount of money we have lost -- due to income cuts, house depreciation, etc? Our income is 40% less than a year ago. Yet, my property taxes continue to go up. Who is going to pay for all that while you are siphoning more of MY money to pay for someone else's insurance?

2) Make sure our rights as consumers are protected and the insurance companies are heavily regulated.

Why? Because they do such a good job of it now? That's the problem with government-run healthcare -- conflict of interest. Do you really think that are going to cut into their own profits -- at a time when the deficit is enormous and unmanageable -- to protect us?

Or rather, is it going to simply be chalked up as another "unforeseen loophole?".

3) The ability to form and pay into our own citizen run health care insurance company that is accountable to the people.

Oh yes...because accountability and transparency has been going so well so far.....

A leopard doesn't change his spots...there has been NO indication thus far that Obama is going to be more accountable than any other thief in Washington. We are still missing billions of dollars of stimulus fund money and military budget money..... but I guess that's not worth looking for. instead, they'll just take more from us to cover it.

You really think that gaining even more power is going to change that? Nope....that how dictators are born. They don't give more to the people when they get more power -- they take more. Period.

...that and the idea that this is unconstitutional is preposterous.

Agreed.

[edit on 13-11-2009 by AllexxisF1]

[edit on 13-11-2009 by lpowell0627]