The Ancients Series | Part II: Indians

Bumping this up!

Don't want it to get lost too early.

Originally posted by VonDutch

Originally posted by Harte
However:
The passage above appears nowhere in the Mahabharata.

Ok, where does it come from then ? mistranslations?
May some Hindi (or Hindu? dont know the exact word) can explain the right translation.

David Hatcher Childress, I believe. Or one of them goofballs like him.

I first mentioned this in 2006 in THIS POST.

I'd known about it fior a while but the detective work was done by another poster, Donner, and he posted the information in THIS HERE POST in that same year.

Harte

Great post. I have really enjoyed all the Ancient posts and their links to UFO's and alien visitation.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by VonDutch

Originally posted by Harte
However:
The passage above appears nowhere in the Mahabharata.

Ok, where does it come from then ? mistranslations?
May some Hindi (or Hindu? dont know the exact word) can explain the right translation.

David Hatcher Childress, I believe. Or one of them goofballs like him.

I first mentioned this in 2006 in THIS POST.

I'd known about it fior a while but the detective work was done by another poster, Donner, and he posted the information in THIS HERE POST in that same year.

Harte

I am shocked. Literally. Are you trying to tell me that the passage above appears nowhere in the Mahabharata???

I am an Indian, live in India, have read the Mahabharata ever since I was a kid, am familiar with the exact passage which describes this, although the effect and intensity is lost in translation to English, and you have the gall to try be an authority on the subject and deny its existence???

You win the prize of the year for being an uninformed, opinionated debunker! Woot!

Oh man, this is hilarious!

On a more serious note, please stop trying to be an authority. You are not.

Get real, please.

Some more info in the next post

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Charismagic]

Bhagavad Gita, 11.32,11.12

kalo ’smi loka-kshaya-krit pravriddho,lokan samahartum iha pravrittah

If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the mighty one. Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds- Quoted by Oppenheimer at Alamogordo

Bhagavad Gita 10.34

Meteors flashed down from the firmament. The points of the compass seemed to be ablaze. The earth trembled --- the trees began to cast off their branches and the mountains their summits --- the sun seemed at that moment to be shorn of splendour' (Shanti Parva, section 334) A thick gloom suddenly shrouded the host --- inauspicious winds began to blow, the sun himself no longer gave any heat. Ravens fiercely croaked on all sides. Clouds soared in the welkin [ie. the sky], showing blood --- the very elements seemed to be perturbed, the universe, scorched by heat, seemed to be in a fever. The elephants and other creatures of the land, scorched by the energy of that weapon, ran in fright, breathing heavily and desirous of protection against that terrible force. The very waters heated, the creatures residing in that element --- seemed to burn --- hostile warriors fell down like trees burnt down by a raging fire. Huge elephants, burnt by that weapon, fell down on the earth all around --- other elephants scorched by that fire, ran hither and thither and roared aloud in fear, as if in the midst of a forest conflagration. The steeds, Oh King, and the cars [ie. chariots], also, burnt by the energy of that weapon, looked, Oh King, liked the tops of trees burnt in a forest fire --- we had never before, Oh King, heard of, or seen the like of that weapon --- the forms of the slain could not be distinguished.

According to Pratap Chandra Roy's 1889 Mahabharata translation, in the dhanur veda, in reference to Karna Parva, section 34, Drona Parva section 201, Mausala Parva, 2A.

A single projectile charged with all the power of the universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame, as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendour…. It was an unknown weapon, and iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas…. The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognisable. Their hair and nails fell out; pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white. After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected…. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and all their equipment.

This was very likely the projectile known as the brahmaastra. Another potent weapon was the Pasupata weapon which Shiva presented to the archer Arjuna with the comment:

I shall give you the great Pasupata weapon, which is my favorite... However, Partha, you must never let it loose at any man in wanton violence, for if it hits a person of insufficient power, it might burn down the entire world. There is no one in all three worlds with their moving and standing creatures who is invulnerable to it, and it can be launched with a thought, a glance, a word, or a bow.

In the Bhagavad Gita there is a description of the misguided warrior Asvatthama being chased by the more powerful Arjuna and, out of desperation, launching a nuclear attack against his enemy. However, Asvatthama didn’t know how to properly control the weapon and the chain reaction cascaded out of control, threatening to destroy the entire world. Arjuna, on Krishna’s advice, released a nuclear weapon of his own, merged its explosion with that of Asvatthama’s weapon and then slowed the joint reactions and retracted both weapons, saving the day.

Source: Drona Parva, section 201

I could go on and on, but whats the point?

To try and deny ignorance is one thing, but to remove stupidity overnight?? Naah!! I give up.



[edit on 12-11-2009 by Charismagic]

Originally posted by Charismagic

Originally posted by Harte
However:
The passage above appears nowhere in the Mahabharata.

I am shocked. Literally. Are you trying to tell me that the passage above appears nowhere in the Mahabharata???

No, I'm not "trying to tell you," I am telling you.

Originally posted by CharismagicI am an Indian, live in India, have read the Mahabharata ever since I was a kid, am familiar with the exact passage which describes this, although the effect and intensity is lost in translation to English, and you have the gall to try be an authority on the subject and deny its existence???

Look, dude, I don't care if you're Kisari Mohan Ganguli's grandson. It's not there in any version.

I think you should re-read the passage I'm talking about. That passage is a re-writtren version of several different passages that aren't even in the same books of the Mahabharata. The fake passage itself implies that, for example, "fingernails fell out" in an attempt to convince us of radiation poisoning while the corresponding part of the actual text itself states that rats ate people's fingernails off.

You sayin' these are radioactive rats, like Spiderman (Ratman) or something?

It's not there. If you continue to maintain that it is, then you are a liar.

Simple as that.


Harte

Originally posted by Charismagic

According to Pratap Chandra Roy's 1889 Mahabharata translation, in the dhanur veda, in reference to Karna Parva, section 34, Drona Parva section 201, Mausala Parva, 2A.

Gee. That is odd.

You know, you would expect an Indian Subcontinent-born lifelong studier of and expert on the Mahabharata to know that Pratap Chandra Roy was not the translator of the Mahabharata, but was the publisher of the translation made by Ganguli.
Please note the following, and then please remove the foot from your ignorant mouth:

Pratap Chandra Roy was born in the village of Shanko in the Burdwan district of Bengal on March 15, 1842. His father was Ramjai Roy; his mother Drabanai Devi dies when he was two and a half. He was brought up by a widow who worked for a Brahmin in Khulna district. As a boy he would pick up coconuts thrown as offerings in Ganga or left by the waterside, sell them, and with the money beg his foster mother to buy him books. Impressed, the Brahmin employer put him in a school.

When he grew up, he became a bookseller in Calcutta. By 1869 he had put by enough money to buy a small printing press and start a publishing concern. By the end of 1876 he had brought out a complete Bengali translation of the Mahabharata. Then a new idea fired him: the complete Mahabharata in English. His purpose was to unfold the richness of the Indian Heritage to the British rulers and to foreigners in general; as his widow innocently explained in her epilogue, attached to the last book in 1896, " If a knowledge of the mind of the people is of value to the administration of the country, who will deny the utility of an English translation of the Mahabharata to the British Goverment of India?"

He knew his own English was not good enough; and press work kept him too busy anyway. Luck brought him Babu Kisari Mohan Ganguli, a man with a brilliant academic record in English: Ganguli was entrusted with the work of translating the epic, while Roy went around collecting funds from "peasents and princes, Anglo-Indian officials and English and American sympathisers to warrant him in going forward" - for his ambition (in which he succeeded) was to distribute the translated volumes free...

...Babu Kisari Mohan Ganguli, "who like a literary Atlas bore the heavy burden of the tramslation", gets mentioned only in the last volume of the English translation. Though he had no hand at all in the translation, Roy put his own name on the title page of the first nine volumes. The ambiguity that transformed a publisher into a translator and left K.M. Ganguli's glory unsung has, to my knowlwdge, been spotted only by Ronald Inden and Maureen Patterson, compilers of the University of Chicago's Bibliography to South Asian Studies; by K.M. Knott in the Janus Press Edition of the first two books of the Mahabharata; and by A.C. Macdonnell in his History of Sanskrit Literature, where the transltion has been listed in the bibliography as having published at "the expense of P.C. Roy" (it was surely at K.M. Ganguly's expense!).

Source: taken from An Annotated Mahabharata Bibliography by Prof. P. Lal, published by Writer's Workshop, Calcutta (1967).)

So, you're supposedly quoting Ganguli's translation, since Roy wasn't the translator (and never translated any subsequent version.)

That's even more odd. See, it was Ganguli's translation that I quoted from in the post you so vehemently disputed in your feeble attempt to appear to know what you are talking about.

So, Ganguli's translation (that's P.C. Roy's translation to you) is available at Sacred-texts.com.

I probably linked to it in the post I linked to from 2006.

Dear Mister Sanskrit expert that knows nothing about the history of the various translations of the Mahabharata:
Please go to sacred texts and look up the portions you cited as the source for what is clearly a pseudoscientists (D.H. Childress) personal reworking of a handful of unrelated passages from different books of the Mahabharata into a single fake passage that appears to support his idiotic "ancinet nuclear weapons" claim.

See if I misquoted.

Hint - I didn't.

Originally posted by Charismagic
I could go on and on, but whats the point?

To try and deny ignorance is one thing, but to remove stupidity overnight?? Naah!! I give up.

Don't give up. You can cure your stupidity with just a small effort. See above.

Harte

Superbly written and Well Researched Thread, This kind of thread is why I Joined ATS. Fascinating the mentioning of Astras and Virmana's and the compiling of these in such an orderly and comprehensible fashion. Well Done! I can't wait to read the next in your series, This post and "The Sumerians" were both Top Notch. Thank You and Shante...

Originally posted by Charismagic
Bhagavad Gita, 11.32,11.12

kalo ’smi loka-kshaya-krit pravriddho,lokan samahartum iha pravrittah

If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the mighty one. Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds- Quoted by Oppenheimer at Alamogordo

Bhagavad Gita 10.34

Meteors flashed down from the firmament. The points of the compass seemed to be ablaze. The earth trembled --- the trees began to cast off their branches and the mountains their summits --- the sun seemed at that moment to be shorn of splendour' (Shanti Parva, section 334) A thick gloom suddenly shrouded the host --- inauspicious winds began to blow, the sun himself no longer gave any heat. Ravens fiercely croaked on all sides. Clouds soared in the welkin [ie. the sky], showing blood --- the very elements seemed to be perturbed, the universe, scorched by heat, seemed to be in a fever. The elephants and other creatures of the land, scorched by the energy of that weapon, ran in fright, breathing heavily and desirous of protection against that terrible force. The very waters heated, the creatures residing in that element --- seemed to burn --- hostile warriors fell down like trees burnt down by a raging fire. Huge elephants, burnt by that weapon, fell down on the earth all around --- other elephants scorched by that fire, ran hither and thither and roared aloud in fear, as if in the midst of a forest conflagration. The steeds, Oh King, and the cars [ie. chariots], also, burnt by the energy of that weapon, looked, Oh King, liked the tops of trees burnt in a forest fire --- we had never before, Oh King, heard of, or seen the like of that weapon --- the forms of the slain could not be distinguished.

[edit on 12-11-2009 by Charismagic]

Fascinating passage! Thanks for that, must have missed it before unfortunately.

The very waters heated, the creatures residing in that element --- seemed to burn

I find this the most fascinating.

As for the passages that you and Harte are discussing, it's very likely that it was a really bad case of mistranslation. Unless of course you can provide proof that it is indeed a legit passage I'll still treat it as heavily suspicious.

Originally posted by Harte

Look, dude, I don't care if you're Kisari Mohan Ganguli's grandson. It's not there in any version.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
So, you're supposedly quoting Ganguli's translation, since Roy wasn't the translator (and never translated any subsequent version.)

That's even more odd. See, it was Ganguli's translation that I quoted from in the post you so vehemently disputed in your feeble attempt to appear to know what you are talking about.

So, Ganguli's translation (that's P.C. Roy's translation to you) is available at Sacred-texts.com.
Harte

So I think it's safe to say that the passage's have been heavily mistranslated and misunderstood?

That's all fair and well in my opinion, still plenty more passages (like the one the poster above you posted) which are very interesting aswell.

Thanks for the informative post though.

i was watching a video series from national geographic called BALI: THE MASTERPIECE OF THE GODS. it dawned on me while watching it that these hindu people had historically been selected for their artistic abilities and encouraged to interbreed with each other in an isolated place, so that their skills would be concentrated amongst them and not diluted. watch this and see what i mean
tiny.cc...

now this begs the question: who knew, thousands of years ago, that such abilities were genetic ? no amount of training will give a person artistic ability. this is just odd!

Originally posted by undo
i was watching a video series from national geographic called BALI: THE MASTERPIECE OF THE GODS. it dawned on me while watching it that these hindu people had historically been selected for their artistic abilities and encouraged to interbreed with each other in an isolated place, so that their skills would be concentrated amongst them and not diluted. watch this and see what i mean
tiny.cc...

now this begs the question: who knew, thousands of years ago, that such abilities were genetic ? no amount of training will give a person artistic ability. this is just odd!

I can't watch Hulu from my area, but I've seen pieces of that documentary, someone hosted it online. It is odd though, could it have been a simple case of trial and error?

reply to post by serbsta


i'm not sure.

i developed a theory a year or so ago concerning pyramids and other graduated terrace buildings. it came about while studying documents and photos regarding experimental moon mining facilities, proposed for some near future date, to mine helium 3 from the lunar regolith (lunar dirt). anyway, after looking at the terraced walls of earth-based mines, the light bulb went on over ye olde noggin:

what if originally, the idea of a central mound of god-like significance, developed, not from volcanoes or the sudden emergence of new mountain ranges, but from mining operations in which a central mound was deliberately left unmined to be used as a central control hub, for overseeing the mining project? and these hubs, being the domain of the "gods", eventually were built on purpose.

the bali buildings remind of the same thing, even more elaborately.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by serbsta

 

i'm not sure.

i developed a theory a year or so ago concerning pyramids and other graduated terrace buildings. it came about while studying documents and photos regarding experimental moon mining facilities, proposed for some near future date, to mine helium 3 from the lunar regolith (lunar dirt). anyway, after looking at the terraced walls of earth-based mines, the light bulb went on over ye olde noggin:

what if originally, the idea of a central mound of god-like significance, developed, not from volcanoes or the sudden emergence of new mountain ranges, but from mining operations in which a central mound was deliberately left unmined to be used as a central control hub, for overseeing the mining project? and these hubs, being the domain of the "gods", eventually were built on purpose.

the bali buildings remind of the same thing, even more elaborately.

Holy crap that's an interesting theory, i always wondered what it was about the pyramid shape and how it first developed. The more i think about it the more it makes sense. I might go and have a bit of a look around at some examples and try to apply your theory to them.



[edit on 13/11/2009 by serbsta]

smack in the middle of copernicus crater on the moon is this:

thelivingmoon.com...

reply to post by Charismagic

There is no one in all three worlds with their moving and standing creatures who is invulnerable to it, and it can be launched with a thought, a glance, a word, or a bow.
_____________________________________________________________
Do you know of the three worlds? What or where they might be?

[edit on 13-11-2009 by missvicky]

Hi. This is a great thread. I read it I yesterday and was thinking...

I have been on this site for a few days now and have come across some very amazing information. Collectively, I have a theory. I apologize if this might be in any way-not agreeable to some. Its just a theory...a mere speculation on my part. Ok..here goes.

There are many threads that mention ancient civilizations/aliens/atlantians etc. I think Indian civilization, like Atlantians, Egyptians or Mayans was influenced by aliens.
Aliens (there are various terms floating around the website - you can substitute any) have occasionally assisted the human race with technology. They similarly helped the Indian/Aryan race as well. If you pay attention, the alien influence is very heavily depicted in the books. They talk about Gods having meetings in heaven along with Indra and other Gods. This sounds similar to a few messages I have read from individuals who talk about some Confederation that is in charge of the universe.

The concepts are also similar. Indian culture talks about reincarnation a lot. So do the higher density entities suggest.
Also, we have been told by same entities about the importance of us realizing we have a purpose in this universe - and we should do our duty. Indian religion is very duty-oriented.

Going back to the mythos - the battles, all show epic battles between good and bad - after BAD had reached heights of injustice. This does suggest, at some point of time the scales have to be balanced -due to either natural or unnatural causes. Indian civilization got lucky and the good side won...the other civilizations- ----not so lucky.
(Please keep in mind- when I am saying bad - I'm referring to all the evil on the land - be it some evil people or entire society)

As you suggest in this thread as well - the nuclear type activities in the wars, the mathematics trends....which do suggest the civilization was extremely advanced.

There are many other instances I have found similarities over the past few days as well, which I can't recall at this moment.


But after these battles, because people love stories, they made all the realities even grander. We now have all the Gods -with their grand accessories etc. I have no doubt - similar situations occurred, but things have a way of getting bigger than they are in the mythology. So, now we have all the God -personified as human beings.

If you pay attention, Old Religion of the West -used similar elements. They used to worship Moon/Sun etc. Indians do the same -they worship all elements they survive upon ---- the only difference being that the entities are personified.

I hope I didn't say anything that might have been inappropriate. As I said, it was merely the strings connecting in the "weird" brain that I have been blessed with. Feel free to comment on this, and please do let me know if there is something that doesnt meet the rules of the thread or something that I should edit out.

Last, thank you for the amazing thread. It was very nice to read it and know more information. I also read your Sumerians article and it was a treat to read that as well. Thanks!

Originally posted by missvicky
reply to post by Charismagic

 

There is no one in all three worlds with their moving and standing creatures who is invulnerable to it, and it can be launched with a thought, a glance, a word, or a bow.
_____________________________________________________________
Do you know of the three worlds? What or where they might be?

[edit on 13-11-2009 by missvicky]

Possibly a reference to higher dimensions?

reply to post by fynshine


Yep, a lot of people have come to the same conclusion. I personally don't believe in ancient astronaut theory, but i love to entertain the theory especially by examining mythological correlations, but that's just me.

the three worlds?
possibly 1) the below (the waters, the inner earth, the abyss), 2) the middle earth (where we live), 3) the above (the starry expanse and planets)

[edit on 13-11-2009 by undo]

@ Harte - Still doesnt change stupidity into fact, if all that you are doing, is going to sit in Memphis and quote the translation at the sacred texts.

Please learn Sanskrit and read the original, and then maybe we can talk.

Of course, there wont be any need after that in any case.

And I could be his grandson, for all you know

@ serbsta

Passages exist. Any scholar on the Mahabharata will tell you that. The only thing is that many are scattered. I dont have to give you or anyone any proof of that.

As I said either learn Sanskrit and read it for yourself, or consult a scholar at a University. He will show you the relevant passages. The response will be very different from stupidly perserving with ignorance as in the post above!

@ missvicky, Undo

The three worlds referenced are prithvi (earth), patal lok (underworld- demons) and swarga ( heaven)

Let me know if you need any more info.

@ Harte

The fact that you got a drubbing in the thread below, lost it completely, were called rude and patronizing wasnt enough?

Mahabharata

Seriously, dude, would suggest you learn Sanskrit. Its the most mathematically precise language in the world, which can be converted directly into binary units.

Then go read the Mahabharata, end to end. Maybe then, you will come out of denial and ignorance.