Science Vs.

Originally posted by radarloveguy

Belief in God however, has kept going because of peoples personal
experiences with the miraculous .

.... about a year ago , a woman in America drove into a flooded
river ,windows up , car sank , rescuers unable to smash windows ,
hey presto , woman comes to surface , into arms of rescuers , car
removed from water , windows still up . please explain ?

I wasn't really gonna comment on my thread again, since it was a PUI

But this I couldn't resist.

I deleted the first half because it's a reiteration of what is normally said about science (ha, and at the computer you sit at and type damnations of it!), that it's evil, and it does harm, it created the atom bomb, and so on and so forth.

But it's also, probably the very reason you're alive right now, I wouldn't be if my mother didn't receive that c-section, or perhaps tuberculosis could've gotten the better of a loved one, we're lucky that we had science to produce the majority of things around us, but we just go ahead and take them for granted.

Now as for miracles.....sigh.... there simply things that are deemed unexplainable, but in well I'll say it ALL cases they are explainable.

Now for the woman, I wasn't there, I didn't see it, hell I don't even have a source!

So I'll chalk that up to a story, I've heard many miracles, my favorite one, was told by a classmate.

Her: My father was sick, sick and dying, he was a prison guard, and he was getting sick, he checked himself into a hospital, (before he was declared as a dying individual) and he got sicker, the prisoners, opted to pray for him, and most of them did, as he was a likeable character.

He just got sicker and sicker, to the point where moving was near impossible, and was given a timeline before death.

He decided he wanted to go home with his family, and screw the medicine.

He got up and went off on his way home, struggling.

He got better and better.

It was a miracle of god.

Me: No the doctors were overdoing it, and he didn't need, or was somehow ill affected by the medicine. No divine intervention.

Her: But prayers were cast, and god heard their cries, and healed him.

Me: Not really, people pray all the time, and nothing happens

Her: He must then have work left to do.

Me: What about the children who were prayed to much more, and hadn't the chance to live, while a 50+ year old man, go to live instead?

Her: .....

Me: .....

---Conversation over.

Although, she's still a devout believer, that god healed him.


The God Phenomenon has only kept on going, because it explains the unexplainable. It really doesn't but it explains things people don't want to understand. Savvy.

There are no miracles, just things people want to believe are unexplainable.

Originally posted by Republican08
There are no miracles, just things people want to believe are unexplainable.

i think you'll find that there are things we can't explain, some believe they are the hand of god, miracles, some believe they are just stuff that happens.

i don't see any merit in one point of view over the other.

the doctors could do no more, treatment was pointless, it stopped, he recovered. who are you to say it wasn't god?

Well the sooner you realize that you use cracked-barrel philosopher to re-shape but has been already established, the better it will be for your half-truths and half-lies narrative of embodied knowledge.

Just because you get away for using freely the term philosophy, does not mean you can apply it to everything and get away with it.

Read the scientific literature on its dogmas and paradigms. Dont loosen up the language;

Just because youshould, doesnt mean you should.

"Anyone who argues Science vs Religion on either side obviously doesn't have the first real clue about either of them"

Only a prehistoric mamouth would make such a statement. Apparently, 3500 + have passed.

On a scale of 1 to 10, science has 9.9 success and religion 0. It does not even have the rest of the 0.1 percent to sum up together with science as 10 because it starts of with "God"; and no illusive term brings substance to be considered worthy of attention.

The oldest trick in the books; using, misusing and abusing general philosophies of life; buddism, ect; to state an over-rated infamous balance.

That is a gun with no ammunition. That is taking a shot to your head.

There is a significant difference of what E.X.A.C.T.L.Y something IS and what it S.H.O.U.L.D be.

Hitler socially contributed to society; it unified the whole world for a moment of peace and prosperity. Should I glorify Him philosophically?

Get a grip.

Religion is not philosophy. Get it out of your stubborn head.

To add, psychology is the science of mental life as The Great Man said; William James.

The most controversial and significant contributors of psychology have been mainly philosophical scientists.

But oh no! Suddenly you switch, as if flawless, to the whole debate of consciousness vs objectiveness; Irrelevant.

You are the one who does not understand at all what is science, what is religion and what is philosophy. In your head, they are all magnificently interwoven; therefore science = religion = philosophy; science + religion + philosophy = absolute fact and truth.

Dont even dare to walk on quantum physics. I bet your failure in here is greater than the sum of the three "things" aforementioned.

"Science - physical world

Faith - spiritual world.

period. end quote. thanks"

So intelligent. I bet your mind had been lost in the graves of Ancient Egyptians.

Good thing you returned back like a mummy; still updated and dead in thought.

I find it increasingly hilarious how individuals use words that cannot even conceptualize or even come close to understand them, whilst they glorify their moments of "geniuses". Bwahah.

You go spirit. Sail to heaven!

"Thanks a lot science"

The greatness of one does not kneel over its inevitable imperfection.

Thanks alot for being human though.

"about a year ago , a woman in America drove into a flooded
river ,windows up , car sank , rescuers unable to smash windows ,
hey presto , woman comes to surface , into arms of rescuers , car
removed from water , windows still up . please explain ?"

So basically, her rescuers dived into the water, saw the windows up, gave her a grin and went back again to have a smoke and a bottle of Jack Danniels.

Furthermore, her testimoney incited that "It was like a time-machine; I passed through pure glass".

Duh.

Why didnt I think that as the most logical conclusion every produced by human kind?

I wonder.

reply to post by SS.Invictus


Do you not understand what a spiritual realm is?

Science describes our physical world. Period. It's demonstrable because it's PHYSICAL.

Religion attempts to describe our SPIRITUAL world. Period.

How can you even relate the two?

So intelligent. I bet your mind had been lost in the graves of Ancient Egyptians.

Good thing you returned back like a mummy; still updated and dead in thought.

I find it increasingly hilarious how individuals use words that cannot even conceptualize or even come close to understand them, whilst they glorify their moments of "geniuses". Bwahah

Don't attack me because you don't understand.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

i think you'll find that there are things we can't explain, some believe they are the hand of god, miracles, some believe they are just stuff that happens.

i don't see any merit in one point of view over the other.

the doctors could do no more, treatment was pointless, it stopped, he recovered"

The rain of Ignorance never ends.

Just because we cant explain it YET, does not mean we will NEVER explain it.

Ofcourse you do not see, wont see, will never ever see.

We live in 2009.

My dream is to annihilate every single Ignorance there is.

It should be yours too.

Apparently, religion lately has been awaken as well; excavating the long book of common sense; hence, the new Vatican Observatory.

who are you to say it wasn't god?

Ofcourse, cells suddenly became more powerful than their nature and refuted their rules and laws.

There is something call profound Will, where your will to live and survive is so great and high, you break the limits and boundaries that are foretold.

There is another thing called -swearing in here- luck/randomness; a rare condition or phenomenon to either on the microscopic level; neurons, or macroscopic; neural networks, happended which allowed for the odd of living to manifest itself into a physical-or-mental realm.

But if you think that every single time you have that, you will be able to escape death or dare to mock him, I would suggest getting some AIDS and Cancer; then come back to me and let me know if your "will" or your "Matchmaker" helped you.

Stop playing around with mental and non-mental properties; allocation of "pure energy", displacement of "physical entities"; cells, that you do not have.

Invictus,

Perhaps you would like to find EVEN ONE example of the Bible attempting to describe our physical world and being INCORRECT. I understand the bible IS NOT a scientific description of our physical world, nor was it meant to be, however these physical descriptions can still be found in certain passages. You will not find a single discrepancy upon physical descriptions and what science has found. Have fun.

Time had a beginning - 2 Timothy 1:9, Titus 1:2, 1 Corinthians 2:72
The universe had a beginning - Genesis 1:1, 2:4, Isaiah 42:5, etc.3
The universe was created from the invisible(atoms) - Hebrews 11:34
The dimensions of the universe were created - Romans 8:38-395
The universe is expanding - 44:24Job 9:8, Psalm 104:2, Isaiah 40:22, Isaiah 42:5, Isaiah 45:12, Isaiah 48:13, Isaiah 51:13, Jeremiah 10:12, Jeremiah 51:15, Zechariah 12:16
Creation of matter and energy has ended in the universe (refutes steady-state theory) - Genesis 2:3-47
The universe is winding down and will "wear out" (second law of thermodynamics ensures that the universe will run down due to "heat death"-maximum entropy) - Psalm 102:25-278
Describes the correct order of creation - Genesis 1 (see Day-Age Genesis One Interpretation)
Number of stars exceeds a billion - Genesis 22:17, Jeremiah 33:229
Every star is different - 1 Corinthians 15:4110
Pleiades and Orion as gravitationally bound star groups - Job 38:3111
Light is in motion - Job 38:19-2012
The earth is controlled by the heavens - Job 38:331
Earth is a sphere - Isaiah 40:2213 Job 26:1014
At any time, there is day and night on the Earth - Luke 17:34-3515
Earth is suspended in space - Job 26:716
Earth began as a waterworld. Formation of continents by tectonic activity described - Genesis 1:2-9, Psalm 104:6-9, Proverbs 3:19, Proverbs 8:27-29, Job 38:4-8, 2 Peter 3:517
Water cycle described - Ecclesiastes 1:7; Isaiah 55:10, Job 36:27-2818
Valleys exist on the bottom of the sea - 2 Samuel 22:1619
Vents exist on the bottom of the sea - Job 38:1620
Ocean currents in the sea - Psalm 8:821
Air has weight - Job 28:2522
Winds blow in circular paths - Ecclesiastes 1:623
The chemical nature of human life - Genesis 2:7, 3:1924
Life of creatures are in the blood - Leviticus 17:1125
The nature of infectious diseases - Leviticus 13:4626
Importance of sanitation to health - Numbers 19, Deuteronomy 23:12-13, Leviticus 7-927

Oh wow, look at that. All these statements are backed by science. Who would have thought?

"Do you not understand what a spiritual realm is?

Science describes our physical world. Period. It's demonstrable because it's PHYSICAL.

Religion attempts to describe our SPIRITUAL world. Period.

How can you even relate the two?"

Rofl.

Origins of origins; Big Bang vs God.
History of L.i.f.e; Evolution vs God.
Explaining nature; Electro-bio-chemical procedures and properties vs Gods.
Expaining how the brain is; Brain-mapping via brain-scaning vs God.
Explaining self and society; Psychology and Social Sciences vs Angels and Demons.
Explaining addictions; Irrevocable attitudes, motives, unconscious will vs Having Lucifer inside of you.

Religion talks poetically; puts an image into an experience; does not EXPLAIN it or is IGNORANT of its origins and principles for it to happen/occur; "God bless you, God is inside of you, it is God's will".

Spirituality infers to a spirit; and a spirit to a soul; and a soul to a psyche; and a psyche to a pure energy that can transcend its body; You should be privileged to the philosophers who questioned absolute determinism or else you would be living in a place where you are truly nothing but a pack of neuros as the self-deluded scientist once said; you should be glad that you still have the concept of "self" and "ego" until now instead of being a philosophical zombie.

Stop perioding me Child when you cant even use the 10 percent of your mind that we on average use per day.

reply to post by SS.Invictus


Use more demeaning terms like "child". It's very appropriate and I enjoy it.

See previous post. Thank you.

I am patiently awaiting more insults.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

So dam naive.

Nit-picking biblical sentences that their authors have obviously read Ancient Greeks.

Duh uh.

Lesson number one; most, if not all, of the first "Truths and Facts" began from Ancient Greece.

Open your History book once in a while.

Dont replicate to me "biblical nominals" that are replicators of ancient civilisations and do nothing more than to glorify their Ancient Masters; thinking that they have contributed something more when in reality, it is a small drop not even belonging to them.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by SS.Invictus

 

Use more demeaning terms like "child". It's very appropriate and I enjoy it.

See previous post. Thank you.

I am patiently awaiting more insults.

[edit on 20-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

Yatta.

reply to post by SS.Invictus


Historical facts, please present them now please. Thank you.

Edit to add: That is to say, prove that these authors had knowledge of greeks and that it's "plagiarism".

[edit on 20-11-2009 by Agree2Disagree]

Originally posted by Sacrosanct
Hate to piss on your parade but theoretical physics is faith too... faith in mathematics, at least.

mathematics requires no faith...it's infallible...it's constant. So far as I know, 1 +1 always equals 2. If anything, I would call mathematics a certainty.

Just my 2-cents

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by SS.Invictus

 

Historical facts, please present them now please. Thank you.

Well to educate someone like you, it will take me a timeless time; time wouldnt have a beginning that is.

Do it your self.

If you dont get the basics until now, I suggest to go back in time and cleanse your sins as your religion would have dictated you by now.

I am not going to loose my significant time with your trivial statements and minor drama; Take a walk into the library and enlighten your self.

This is my last post, unless I see the original author posting or someone else in the same wavelength as me.

Toodles.

Originally posted by SS.Invictus

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by SS.Invictus

 

Historical facts, please present them now please. Thank you.

Well to educate someone like you, it will take me a timeless time; time wouldnt have a beginning that is.

Do it your self.

If you dont get the basics until now, I suggest to go back in time and cleanse your sins as your religion would have dictated you by now.

I am not going to loose my significant time with your trivial statements and minor drama; Take a walk into the library and enlighten your self.

This is my last post, unless I see the original author posting or someone else in the same wavelength as me.

Toodles.

Right. When asked to present the facts you refuse to and continue to attack me on a personal basis. Thank you.

Originally posted by SS.Invictus
Stop perioding me Child when you cant even use the 10 percent of your mind that we on average use per day.

I won't really address the other parts of your post, because Agree2Disagree kinda did already, but I just wanted to point out that I found the above statement hilarious, especially coming from someone who touted "science" as the ultimate truth.


Some in this thread have mentioned how science and religion are totally separate, and thus to put them as "Science vs Religion" is silly. I agree with the second part of that sentiment, but not so much with the 1st.

As far as my own personal beliefs go, science is very much part of my religion, and my love of science is an extension of my love of God. What I see, feel, hear and smell, and the logic behind them all, do much to reaffirm my faith. Still, that doesn't blind me from the realisation that
- much (most?) of science is based off implicitly unprovable axioms,
- and science is not the WHOLE truth, just part of it (the part we can see, hear, feel and touch, ie. the physical part).

[edit on 20-11-2009 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi


Well said babloyi. I agree. Star for that post.

O.K ... science has done a lot of good things over the years .

... but recently , some of these untested "advances"

are putting everybody at risk , human guinea pigs !


I think the smartest thing they've done is recognise

INTELLIGENT DESIGN ........ ergo God.

Ergo Cave Man;

www.pbs.org...

reply to post by Republican08


Problem is republican that the two need not be in conflict. The conflict is an artifact of people that care a little too damn much what others believe. Whatever their excuse. Oh, and incidentally, science is not inherently atheistic. Pure science is inherently agnostic as the question to the existance or lack there of a god/high power/prime mover/deity is NOT a question we can answer with anything but a highly subjective answer.

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