Hate to piss on your parade but theoretical physics is faith too... faith in mathematics, at least. Certainly you see this? I mean, come on - black holes (ain't really all that black), quantum physics... am I really supposed to believe that light is not only a wave, but a wave and a particle, or sometimes a wave and sometimes a particle? That takes a LOT of faith! And black holes with their infinite timewarps, and how about nothing travelling faster than light? All of modern theoretical physics MIGHT AS WELL be written in some bible (hey maybe "A Brief History of Time" can be our new bible?) because its about as hard to prove that stuff as it is to prove God.

Originally posted by Sacrosanct
Hate to piss on your parade but theoretical physics is faith too... faith in mathematics, at least. Certainly you see this? I mean, come on - black holes (ain't really all that black), quantum physics... am I really supposed to believe that light is not only a wave, but a wave and a particle, or sometimes a wave and sometimes a particle? That takes a LOT of faith! And black holes with their infinite timewarps, and how about nothing travelling faster than light? All of modern theoretical physics MIGHT AS WELL be written in some bible (hey maybe "A Brief History of Time" can be our new bible?) because its about as hard to prove that stuff as it is to prove God.

All that stuff you listed, well if you can find a alternative! Do it!

Science is easier to prove, than any of the alternative theories which all wind up saying "And than a magical invisible being did it".

Remember X-Rays?

Idon't know if science is ever wrong or not, but I'm afraid this statement
right here

You will never see a Christian as passionate, or upset, when he/she (for feminist reasons) finds out someone is an atheist, even if they learn they are Muslim or Hindus, they are more 'ok' but an 'Atheist!' No, this is to terrible!

Is bogus crap and you know it.
What's up with you 08? This isn't like you.
At least not that statement.
I don't remember you ever saying anything so weak.


[edit on 6-11-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Republican08
You will never see a Christian as passionate, or upset, when he/she (for feminist reasons) finds out someone is an atheist, even if they learn they are Muslim or Hindus, they are more 'ok' but an 'Atheist!' No, this is to terrible!

maybe they aren't annoyed with the fact that you're an athiest, maybe they're annoyed by the fact that you are using you atheism to start an argument with them.

atheists seem to have some sort of disorder where they need everyone to believe the same things they do, so you get stupid threads called "science vs". vs what?!? christians? the christian religion doesn't oppose science. a priest came up with the big bang theory ffs. there hasn't been any real argument since galileo and if you knew your history you'ld know that argument was about power, not religion.

it's a sickness. it's called full-of-your-importan-itus. want to know what the cure is? move out of your parents house and go get a life.

I really don't think it's necessary to choose one or the other. There is no versus in my opinion, both are useful to humanity and both have weaknesses as well.

In the words of Bruce Lee:

"Here is the natural instinct and here is control. You are to combine the two in harmony. If you have one to the extreme, you will be very unscientific. If you have the other to the extreme, you become all of a sudden a mechanical man, no longer a human being. It is a successful combination of both."

I understand your opinion that religious ideas are outdated because of science and I agree, for the most part. However, I don't think that necessarily means faith and/or spiritual beliefs should be done away with. I really do think that religious and scientific communities should be more cooperative. If both sides could get over their knee-jerk reaction to scoff at the other, we might actually get somewhere in both schools of philosophy.

And as for Christians being more accepting of other religions as opposed to those who have no religion, I really wouldn't know. I make it a rule for myself only to discuss the topic with people that I trust.

Originally posted by Sacrosanct
Hate to piss on your parade but theoretical physics is faith too... faith in mathematics, at least. Certainly you see this? I mean, come on - black holes (ain't really all that black), quantum physics... am I really supposed to believe that light is not only a wave, but a wave and a particle, or sometimes a wave and sometimes a particle? That takes a LOT of faith! And black holes with their infinite timewarps, and how about nothing travelling faster than light? All of modern theoretical physics MIGHT AS WELL be written in some bible (hey maybe "A Brief History of Time" can be our new bible?) because its about as hard to prove that stuff as it is to prove God.

Come on you don't really believe that do you? Your belief in the evidence for quantum physics is irrelevant. The experiments are some of the most accurate & replicated in the world because they are just so freaking weird. Regardless of the final explanation, the experiments show us wave particle duality. The experiments are data. Evidence. Repeated. Tens of thousands of times, every physicist in the world wanting to be the first one to break it down for the last hundred years. Yet the experiments hold, the predictions are confirmed.

Compare that to the bible. Saying quantum physics is wrong is different than not accepting the evidence. QED is the only explanation we have that explains what we have seen over the last hundred years, again and again. If you think you can do better, go for it, but that doesn't change the experimental facts.

"Science is about faith as well [Not ALL sciences]".

First of all religion vs science is fake; science has no oppontent in this infamous battle worthy of respect or notice; in the contrary, philosophy is.

The strong forte of science is empiricm in the truth and experientialism in knowledge; for philosophy is the ethicism of morals and the questioning for truths and knowledge.

99.9 percent of science has no faith, does not need faith, nor will it ever request the help of faith.

If you want to make such an absolute claim; making a statement that through out the history of a discipline, faith is interlinked with "facts", you should do your homework better.

This re-verse logic or re-engineering approach; just because a few, extremely selective theories, irreducible possibilities of something/something have "faith" involved, does not mean every single time it is faith + knowing = science.

The sooner you realize that both science and religion(philosophy at the root) are 2 completely separate domains, with 2 completely different purposes, the better off you will be.

Anyone who argues Science vs Religion on either side obviously doesn't have the first real clue about either of them. If they did have a real clue, then they would realize it's about like arguing over if the wheels or the engine on a car is "right".

Both are needed. Both have their purposes, and failure to understand both leads to an extremely unbalanced person. All either side is doing is pointing fingers at the unbalance of the other side, ignoring their own faults.

Science is the realm of the physical, logic and so forth. It works on action and reaction. It is very good in telling us about the world around us. Because of it, we have nice technology and things of that nature.

Philosophy(religion) is the realm of understanding. Understanding of what it means "to be", what it means to be an observer and so forth. In Philosophy you can find the secrets to "being".

Reality has 2 parts. 1st, there is the observer or that which experiences things(consciousness). 2nd, there is that which is observed and experienced(the universe). Science is for that which is observed and experience, religion and philosophy is for that dealing with the observer.

There is no reason to choose 1 or the other, and anyone suggesting that needs to get a clue. You can't have science without the scientist(observer, that which is able to percieve and understand), and there is no "reality" to be experienced without the universe/creation.

As long as you want to fight about the 2, you're only limiting yourself in both. If you can start to understand the relationship with things, then maybe you will start to understand things.

Quantum physics is coming to understand these things about "reality". So what excuse are you going to use when that topic is no longer taboo?





[edit on 11/19/2009 by badmedia]

I will Updt this as soon as possible:

Science and Religion in my head are like this;

You have infront of you water and air;

One is reality checking [water] and the other is mental helping [air].

Science - physical world

Faith - spiritual world.

period. end quote. thanks.

Ah science , thats the one that synthesized over 90,000
synthetic chemicals and gave them to an unsuspecting public ,
that , in 50 years , will sterilize men !

Thanks a lot science

.... and thats the one that reckons one particular species of woodpecker
can evolve a tongue that exits the back of the throat , passes over the head , under the skin , and enters the mouth , at the back of the beak .!?


.... and thats the one that invented nuclear weapons with the ability
to wipe out everything , if enough crazies at the top , deem it necessary.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

..... and on and on .

Belief in God however, has kept going because of peoples personal
experiences with the miraculous .

.... about a year ago , a woman in America drove into a flooded
river ,windows up , car sank , rescuers unable to smash windows ,
hey presto , woman comes to surface , into arms of rescuers , car
removed from water , windows still up . please explain ?