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The Quiverfull Movement and Bill Gothard

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posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 04:33 PM
Recently Ive been watching the show "18 kids and Counting" with The Duggar Family. So I started to get interested in what religion they followed. I noticed all the girls wore skirts or dresses. I looked it up and basically they follow the teaching of a man called Bill Gothard. When I looked his name up there was countless people saying this guys was clearly running a cult. The rules they follow are also of what they call "The Quiverfull Movement", in which ive never heard of, and not many people have. So I decided to shed some light on it.

Some of the things Bill Gothard teaches is that, woman should not cut there hair. They should only wear dresses or skirts because "its what god would have wanted" and is strongly against the use of birth control. Its also believed woman should submit themselves to there husbands and fathers. Its believed that if any or all boys in the family do not get married, they must stay living with there parents until they do. The children are also all to be strictly home schooled. Jim Bob, the father of all 20 children, said the girls were not aloud to dance because it was silly and only draws attention to the body that may stir up sexual emotions.

The Quiverall movement among conservative evangelical christians, but the Duggars stated once on an episode they do not see themselves as conservative christians and that they strictly Baptist. So ill be covering the Quiverfull Movement and Bill Gothards teachings in this thread.

Many would also call this movement/religion, very anti-feminist. A woman who follows these teachings stated Feminism is a totally self-consistent system aimed at rejecting God's role for women.

The Quiverfull Movement

Among those who follow, the most important thing to them is to recieve as many children as possible, and eagerly as possible, because they see children as a blessing from God. I certainly would not reject that statement, but statistics show many who follow this, live in very poor living conditions, and one can ask how a mother and father would be able to give all these children enough individual attention, and love. Birth Control is looked down upon extremely.

A woman named Mary Pride, a former feminist, wrote a book called The Way Home: Beyond Feminism, Back To Reality, in which chronicled her journey away from feminism and into her conversion to her Conservative Evangelical Christianity. Pride said she found happiness in her Biblically mandated role as a wife, a mother, and bearer of children, and a worker in the home under authority of her Husband. Pride said she felt it was biblically required for all married christian woman but most had been tricked by feminism. Pride based her arguements mostly on bible verses such as:

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD:
and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man;
so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them:
they shall not be ashamed,
but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.(emphasis added).

The name of the movement, and the verses, come from The Old Testament Bible verses in Psalm 127:3-5. All who follow the movement desire to be as obedient to Gods commands in the Bible as possible, in which one command states to be fruitful and multiply. Therefore, they should have a strong welcoming attitude toward the possibility of bearing children.One Quiverfull author wrote in his book

The church’s sin which has caused us to become unsavory salt incapable of uplifting the society around us is selfishness, lack of love, refusing to consider children an unmitigated blessing. In a word, family planning

Quiverfull authors send the idea that if one child is viewed as blessing, then ay additional child is also, and shouldnt be looked at as economically burdensome or unaffordable. Pride stated "God commanded that sex be at least potentially fruitful (that is, not deliberately unfruitful).... All forms of sex that shy away from marital fruitfulness are perverted." And that you should trust God to give the perfect number of children for your Situation. Most Quiverfull advocates say the Devil tricks christian couples into using birth control, so children of God can be prevented of being born.

Kathryn Joyce, a woman who follows the Quiverfull Movement, states

If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we’ll be able to do,’ ” Joyce says. ” ‘We’ll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we’ll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we’ll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God’s will

This seems to me like children are only being used as some sort of an army. Boycotts against companies that go against Gods will? Children arent soldiers and they certainly shouldnt be treated like soldiers.

But not all people who follow The Quiverfull Movement believe these things. Some believe there are aspects that can justify not following the child-bearing rules. Such as serious illness, inevtiable C-Sections, disabling mental instability, and and marital problems. Some argue birth control may be acceptable to some married couples who have a higher moral purpose than just having children, like taking care of orphans or serving as a missionary in dangerous locations.

The reason why so many are home-school is said to be because the parents seek to shelter their children from any culture that has to deal with non-christianity.

Many people claim that Andrea Yates was a victim of The Quiverfull Movement's thought. Andrea Yates described herself as a non-denominational christian and did not use birth control. Therefore she was accepting of any children she had no matter how many. She had a history of post-partum depression, in which woman become severely depressed after giving birth. Her psychiatrist strongly advised to her not to have any more children for fear of her well being. But her Husband Russel convinced her to stop taking her medication and to concieve her fifth child, which would be her last. Andrea home-schooled all of her children and her husband Russel led a home-church.

But on June 20th, 2001 something happened that shook the world. Andrea murdered all five of her children. There ages was 6 months, Two, Three, Five, and Seven. She had drowned them all in her bathtub. The court ultimatetly ruled her not guilty by reason of insanity. The doctor initally told Russel not to leave her alone because she had a history of suicidal thoughts, but he began leaving her alone with the children for one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening. The judge decided not to rule endangerment and negligence on his case. Those who followed the Quiverfull movement argued Yates never identified herself as Quiverfull and rejected she was part of the movement. However they followed preacher Michael Peter Woroniecki, who's ideas are very similar as to The Quiverfull Movement.

Now back on the subject to The Duggars. They have a buddy system in there house where one child is assigned to help another, which means feed, cloth, bath, and teach them. There is a sign up sheet on the fridge if one of the children want one-on-one time with a parent. Now thats just unacceptable. When your children need to sign up to spend time with you, thats when you know, you can TOO MANY kids. Children deserve love and they deserve there parents attention.



posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 04:38 PM
Teachings of Bill Gothard

Gothards teaching focuses on what he calls the seven life principles. After working with inner city gangs, youth camps, and families in crisis, Gothard wrote his master thesis on a potentional youth program to descrease the number of wayward youth. The seven principles are Design, Authority, Responsibility, Suffering, Ownership, Freedom, and Success.

A christian ministry in St. Louis called Personal Freedom Outreach, believe that those who follow Gothard have a "cult-like" mentality, and are concerned about his authoritarianism in his own organization. But oddly enough, Bill Gothard has never been married. He does so much preaching about how important family is and having children, yet doesnt even practice what he preaches.

Gothards teachings are extremely similar to The Quiverfull Movement. Gothard offers several seminars that are a mix of Psychology and Scripture with emphasis on problem solving, correcting poor self image and developing self concepts. Gothard believes one doesnt even need to be a christian to benfit from his seminars. But in all acutality, Gothard just subsituted his laws for The Law of God. Anyone who knows the bible, knows that the Old Testament states we are unable to keep the law of God, and one of the primary purposes of the law is to show us our need of savior, so given that, then why should we even expect to be able to keep these laws and principles that Gothard teaches?

Gothard has a concept that basically says you must accept the way you were born, and any physical defects you may have, because God made you that way on purpose to glorify himself. ( That is absolutely ridiculous if you ask me, God borned you with no fingers so he could look superior or "awesome" with his? Doesnt make sense at all.). Gothard also teaches that if someone has too much concer over there clothing is trying to cover up for unchangeable feature they might not like.He quotes a passage of the bible that says "Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment?" he clearly misinterpreted this to make it look like Jesus was speaking about the shame of unwanted blemishes, however what is really was adressing was a persons sin of worrying too much over a certain thing.

Gothard also teaches a methodology for Birthing Godly Children. Which isnt unscientific but one can see borders on the occult. He teaches a Pre-Birth training in which the mother reads the bible to the baby in the womb, believe subconciously the baby will learn the way of god. But obviously even if a newborn baby cannot understand the bible, how can he expect an embryo to? To me, this almost seems like a brainwashing technique. And its quite unsettling.

And as if things couldnt get more shocking, Gothard has a booklet that contains medical information, such as cures and in some cases can cause seriouse harm and life threatening consequences. He also devalues the opinion of medical doctors, he insists

"Wise parents will not look at these circumstances from their point of view,"

So doctors warnings of complications mental and physical, is said not to pay attention to it, and to trust god and to look at the bigger picture. And as we all know, many people have sacrificed there children and even their own lives based on that they though they had a special knowledge about God. In a basic care news letter, it was actually reported that if one had a cabbage patch kid or troll dolls in there home, it would prevent the mothers from giving birth. Seriously, how ridiculous is that.

He also has a very unique approach and opinion on dateing. He thinks that a person authoritys, or parents, should be able to determine who you are going to marry! And that if you go against it, God will not bless the marriage. In one of his booklets, under a picture of a couple riding bikes, it says "Is this couple dating, or courting? The answer will have an important effect upon their lives, the lives of their families, and (if they marry) the lives of those in ever generation which follows. There is a definite and vital difference between courtship and dating. Unless this difference is understood and the principles of courtship are applied, defrauding and hurts can result, as well as lasting physical, mental, and spiritual consequences." Gothard must view dateing as an unspeakable sin. Consequences in every generation? That is going a bit far to me. To Gothard, courtship is a fathers agreeing to work with a qualified man to win over his daughter for marriage. It seems Gothards idea od courtship is simply just an arranged marriage.

So what does everyone think of this? Do you think its right for a woman to only be used a birthing machine? Do you feel its okay to have so many children just to spread the message about god? And if you have any other info about this, please post. Im looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks.

posted on Nov, 3 2009 @ 05:54 PM
For a woman to accept a man as her husband just because her father says so is crazy. How can you marry someone you don't love? It is unreasonable and cruel. Woman are not slaves. To have that many children is cruel for the children as they will never get the love and attention that they need. What the hell kind of religion is that?

posted on Nov, 4 2009 @ 07:31 AM
Great thread, we have a ton of these nutjobs around here. I am now much more informed. Thanks!

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