The 912 Project is crap

As many know, the 912 project is a project that holds 9 principles and 12 values. They have ties with the likes of Glenn Beck (their leader) and the conservative radio/tv crowd. I have no issues with their exercising their first amendment rights, but I have issues with some of their principles.

All this is from HERE

The 9 Principles

1. America Is Good.

"America" is an ambiguous collective. Are you talking about the people being good as a whole, or the government, or the entire system? Why does this sound like nationalism?

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.

Why is this important? The 912 movement, obviously, does not care about garnering support from conservatives who do not believe in God or believe in multiple gods. There's no way they can have those Godless heathens marching among them.

Oh yeah, lets remember that Glenn Beck is a mormon.

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.

What if you weren't that honest to begin with? You beat your wife less today, so you are a better person.

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.

So..... why don't we let other families be their own authority? This is like the whole 'Protection of the institution of marriage' bulls#$%. People think they can be the master of their home because they have a legitimate family. If it is a family of gay people, they have no such right.

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.

This principle apparently does not apply to government bodies or past U.S. Presidents.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.

I strangely agree with this one.

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.

What if you only work smart?

I like this one as well, but that whole work hard crap is a little unbelievable.

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.

What if you disagree with the authority as a whole? What if you question the legitimacy of that authority?

Conservatives get to pull the victim card here, and they do. Beck is always crying about how the White House tries to silence him. They are now the rebel alliance and the libs are the empire. But..... pulling the victim card is just pathetic. Go have a cry party somewhere else.

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.

Since when does the government work for the little man and can we even assume it works at all?

'I do not answer to them...' Really? What about filing a 1040? Answering to them is exactly what you are doing. How do these people deny this fact? Somehow, ignorant conservatives (is that redundant?) have been brainwashed to believe this principle.

A Conservative is like a man who realizes the pool is filled with sharks, but jumps in to turn the sharks into dolphins.

edit: bad link

[edit on 2-11-2009 by DINSTAAR]

reply to post by DINSTAAR


Wow just reading through the nine values that you posted they seem like an awesome group. Thanks for pointing it out. Do you know where I can join up?

Well, I'm gonna just have to go ahead and disagree with you. I believe in every single one of those values, because they are all true. Sure you have the right to say or think otherwise but that does not mean you are right. Also, your personal attack on Glenn Beck is unnecessary. He does and did point out very important issues that would have been over looked by other news programs and news stations.

Well, since you had so many snide remarks about conservatives on your OP, why don't you tell us the tenents of your life.

Is the first one I will diminish anyone else's beliefs because it makes me feel superior?

I believe your whole OP is just another bash fest on the conservative values. I hope you get a lot of people on this thread that show their true colors.

As for me, my only tenent, the government can stay the FRACK out of my life. Oh, I suppose you think what is best for the country as a "Whole" is better? When the "Whole", think elitists need to go to the scrap heap, I guess you may be at the front of the line.

reply to post by HotSauce


The link I posted is where you can sign up.

reply to post by kingoftheworld


The government does not work for you. It works to maintain existence and works for whoever gives money to campaigns. Obama and Bush are puppets of the Fed and wall street and have never upheld any semblance of a free market system.

reply to post by endisnighe

I believe your whole OP is just another bash fest on the conservative values. I hope you get a lot of people on this thread that show their true colors.

Poor conservatives, always being picked on.

As for me, my only tenent, the government can stay the FRACK out of my life.

What about the lives of others? Do you want to protect the 'institution' of marriage from outside (homosexual) involvement? What about having the government staying out of the gambling habits of others? What is your stance on the governements involvement in prohibiting prostitution?

I do not want to assume you line up with all conservative beliefs, but you are defending them.

Oh, I suppose you think what is best for the country as a "Whole" is better? When the "Whole", think elitists need to go to the scrap heap, I guess you may be at the front of the line.

I am very libertarian.... very. I line up with conservatives on many issues, like the economy. I am just sick of defending conservatives and had to call 'em out. The whole conservative movement (the thing, not the people) is disingenuous. You preach fiscal responsibility and free markets but have a track record of the opposite, Reagan included.

reply to post by kingoftheworld

Also, your personal attack on Glenn Beck is unnecessary.

What personal attack?

I quote every mention of Beck that I made...

As many know, the 912 project is a project that holds 9 principles and 12 values. They have ties with the likes of Glenn Beck (their leader) and the conservative radio/tv crowd. I have no issues with their exercising their first amendment rights, but I have issues with some of their principles.

hmmm..... nothing here.

Oh yeah, lets remember that Glenn Beck is a mormon.

no chemical weapons here either.....

Beck is always crying about how the White House tries to silence him.

He does this often.

LINK TO ARTICLE

"The status quo is what gives them their status. It is what brings them to power and self-importance," Beck said. "Use your voice while you still have it. I tell you, with everything in me, I think they are going to silence voices like mine and Bill O'Reilly and Rush [Limbaugh] and everybody else - they will silence us. They can't let us continue to speak out. When the government is trying to influence what kind of syrup a restaurant uses, do you really think they're going to have a problem regulating opinion? Please."

They use government pressure to validate themselves. This is pathetic.

Meet the man who changed Glenn Beck's life

This is an article from Salon. A few excerpts:

Beck has been furiously promoting "The 5,000 Year Leap" for the past year, a push that peaked in March when he launched the 912 Project. That month, a new edition of "The 5,000 Year Leap," complete with a laudatory new foreword by none other than Glenn Beck, came out of nowhere to hit No. 1 on Amazon. It remained in the top 15 all summer, holding the No. 1 spot in the government category for months. The book tops Beck's 912 Project "required reading" list, and is routinely sold at 912 Project meetings where guest speakers often use it as their primary source material. At one 912 meet-up I attended in Florida, copies were stacked high on a table against the back wall, available for the 912 nice price of $15. "Don't bother trying to get it at the library," one 912er told me. "The wait list is 40 deep."

This book was written by one Clen Skousen. More from Salon:

"Leap," first published in 1981, is a heavily illustrated and factually challenged attempt to explain American history through an unspoken lens of Mormon theology. As such, it is an early entry in the ongoing attempt by the religious right to rewrite history. Fundamentalists want to define the United States as a Christian nation rather than a secular republic, and recast the Founding Fathers as devout Christians guided by the Bible rather than deists inspired by French and English philosophers. "Leap" argues that the U.S. Constitution is a godly document above all else, based on natural law, and owes more to the Old and New Testaments than to the secular and radical spirit of the Enlightenment. It lists 28 fundamental beliefs -- based on the sayings and writings of Moses, Jesus, Cicero, John Locke, Montesquieu and Adam Smith -- that Skousen says have resulted in more God-directed progress than was achieved in the previous 5,000 years of every other civilization combined.

As Beck knows, to focus solely on "The 5,000 Year Leap" is to sell the author short. When he died in 2006 at the age of 92, Skousen had authored more than a dozen books and pamphlets on the Red Menace, New World Order conspiracy, Christian child rearing, and Mormon end-times prophecy. It is a body of work that does much to explain Glenn Beck's bizarre conspiratorial mash-up of recent months, which decries a new darkness at noon and finds strange symbols carefully coded in the retired lobby art of Rockefeller Center. It also suggests that the modern base of the Republican Party is headed to a very strange place.

The very next week, Bill Bennett appeared on Beck's radio program and received the same question. "Are you familiar with Skousen?" asked Beck. When Bennett replied yes, Beck gushed. "He's fantastic," he said. "I went back and I read 'The Naked Communist' and at the end of that Skousen predicted [that] someday soon you won't be able to find the truth in schools or in libraries or anywhere else because it won't be in print anymore. So you must collect those books. It's an idea I read from Cleon Skousen from his book in the 1950s, 'The Naked Communist,' and where he talked about someday the history of this country's going to be lost because it's going to be hijacked by intellectuals and communists and everything else. And I think we're there."

reply to post by Someone336


Sounds likea good book to me. I don't see where you gave any proof that they book was conservatives rewriting history. Is that like when the Liberals rewrite all the history and social studies books to make everyone the victim of the rabid white man?

reply to post by Someone336


I want to point out that this isn't about Glenn Beck. He is just a figurehead to a movement, I believe, is bound to fail. I do not wish this forum be about Beck, but about ways to promote actual change.

The 912 project is just the conservative version of the 'yes-we-can' crap surrounding Obama. It is the antithesis, if you will. It is bound to fail as all small government conservative movements have in the past. Ronald Reagan merely stopped the growth of the central government while piling up massive deficits. His whole 'revolution' was just a facade. It changed nothing. We are still oppressed by an ever expanding government.

I want real change, not just a change in political parties.

edit...

Is that like when the Liberals rewrite all the history and social studies books to make everyone the victim of the rabid white man?

I cannot deny the premise of this question. The text book industry is off its rocker.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by DINSTAAR]

reply to post by DINSTAAR



Sorry you feel that way.

As a Scouter myself, those points don't seem off to me.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


It would be impossible to discuss 912 without mentioning Beck, while discussing books being aimed at the 912ers is also essential. The background information on the authors of such book is interesting, especially with ties to pseudo-radical group like the John Birch society.

To any other who read my earlier post: I'm not attacking anyone's personal beliefs. I just posted it to help flesh out more aspects of the 912 movement and their beliefs.

Yes, I do have to agree with you on Reagan, he actually was a wolf in sheeps clothing for conservatives. As much as I hate SS and Medicare, he did begin the pillaging of those accounts.

Some actually think there is money in those accounts. Some do not realize that IOUs are not money.

Our government and our country is just inches from the cliff, all is planned. It has been planned for over 75 years. I believe our government has been "The Plan" all along. WW2 was just a precursor to the One World Government movement.

They are the best at the long term move. But the finish line is in their grasp. I just hope diversions such as this will not divert patriotic and principled people from doing what is right when the time comes.

I believe everyone has the right to their OWN life and self determination. We are treated worse than cattle. At least the cattle know they are slaves and food, where as, the majority in this country have no idea that the Repub Dem paradigm exists.

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
Well, I'm gonna just have to go ahead and disagree with you. I believe in every single one of those values, because they are all true. Sure you have the right to say or think otherwise but that does not mean you are right. Also, your personal attack on Glenn Beck is unnecessary. He does and did point out very important issues that would have been over looked by other news programs and news stations.

They have to attack Beck. That is the tenet of of their current belief system. They have already been through their Limbaugh attack stage, and that didn't work, so now they have moved onto Fox News and especially Beck hoping this'll get more people on their kool aid bandwagon that the only salvation for America are their socio-fascist ideals like federalizing private business and all healthcare nationwide.

reply to post by DINSTAAR


I think it is a very very long stretch to have problems with the values proposed here. So many of the OP's comments either assume or infer other meanings or include other political issues with them.

In all sincerity I knew very little about the 912ers before this, but I agreed with the values so much, and the OP's arguments against were so weak, that I went to the 912 site and now will follow and support it.

This isn't about Glenn Beck or Republicans. This is about taking our country back from those trying to rewrite history and change it into something it never was intended to be. If you believe that America used to be the biggest force for good and freedom in the world, and that has now changed because of the radical progressives, the 912ers are for you. If you think things are just dandy and moving in the right direction, then they aren't for you and you can oppose them.

First of all it isnt the government that is in your life. It's bankers and transnational corporations.

If I hear one more person say that the government this that and the other damn that Obama, damn that Bush, damn that Clinton,,Im gonna vomit

Wow. Look at what this great nation has become!

Some people are trying to speak out, wake people up about the infringement of our rights (it is really happening for those who don't believe it or can't see it), and people are bashing 912.

If you don't like 912, create a 913 group with the updates you'd install within the group.

I just don't understand why trying to wake people up on what's going on is a bad thing. Mormon, God, who cares what he believes? People are getting off their asses and trying to do SOMETHING good in their eyes, and then people just bash their religious beliefs and diminish the whole thing.

Originally posted by superluminal11
First of all it isnt the government that is in your life. It's bankers and transnational corporations.

If I hear one more person say that the government this that and the other damn that Obama, damn that Bush, damn that Clinton,,Im gonna vomit

No the problem is the members of government. I expect bankers and transnational corps to try to buy politicians, because that is what I would do in their shoes. On the other hand, I expect politicians to show integrity and to do what they were hired to do by the voters.. which is protect our interests. If I were a politician that is what I woudl do.

Is it possible for a nation to become smarter, yet at the same time meaner?

That wouldn't be...to smart now, would it?

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist


I think we need to get meaner. We have become a bunch of candy asses and our great grandfathers would puke on us from their graves if they saw what we have turned into.

reply to post by HotSauce


Im with you HotSauce were do I join. All 9 sound good to me. Thanks for the post didnt know all this before but now I'll pull more for the group.