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Montana Indian Chief and 'Little People' or 'Dwarves'

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posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 04:18 PM
Reading the second chapter of a book written by Frank B. Linderman, entitled Plenty-Coups, I immediately found out that the Chief of the Crow tribe was no normal guy. The book is a sort of salvage ethnography in which Plenty-Coups is recounting events in his life to Linderman. It is sad to note that this type of life is almost gone, which is why it is so important we have this text.

Wikipedia - Plenty Coups
Wikipedia - Crow Nation

Early in his life, after the death of his brother, Plenty-Coups sought a dream. Dreams for many native people are very, very important. They sometimes fast for days in order to acquire one 'dream', and in this case, Plenty-Coups pleads to the 'Helpers' for a dream. He is recounting to Frank B. Linderman(author/interviewer) this experience, some fifty to sixty years after the event. Plenty-Coups goes to the high up mountains to obtain this experience of a vision, or dream.

Well get a load of this(I had to type this up from my book, as I couldn't find it anywhere to easily copy):

...Weakened by my walking and the days of fasting, I slept, remembering only the last rays of the sun as he went to his lodge. When I wakened, looking into the sky, I saw that The-seven-stars[the big dipper] had turned round the-star-that-does-not-move[north star]. The night was westward. Morning was not far away, and wolves were howling on the plains far below me. I wondered if the village would reach the Little Rockies before night came again.


My name was spoken! The voice came from behind me, back of my head. My heart leaped like a deer struck by an arrow. 'Yes' I answered, without moving.

'They want you, Plenty-coups. I have been sent to fetch you,' said the voice yet behind me, back of my head.

'I am ready,' I answered, and stood up, my head clear and light as air.

Plenty-coups then goes on to describe a walk behind a figure that he can't really see.

The stars told me that I was going east, and I could see that I was following the Person downhill. I could not actually see him, but I knew I was on his trail by the queer light ahead. His feet stirred no stone, nothing on the way, made no sound of walking, nor did mine.

PC follows this quiet 'person'(when reading, this 'person' reminded me of those blank, scary folks from that movie 'Knowing', to all those that have seen it) to a 'lodge' that 'seemed to rise up out of the ground'.

There was no fire burning, and yet there was light in the lodge. I saw that it was filled with Persons I did not know. There were four rows of them in half-circles, two rows on each side of the center, and each Person was an old warrior. I could tell this by their faces and bearing. ...

After a bad reception from men on the south side of the lodge, he is invited to sit with the north side.

'Come, Plenty-coups, and sit with us.' This voice was kind. It came from the north side.

'Sit,' said the Person who had brought me there, and then he was gone. I saw him no more.

They, on the north side of the lodge, made a place for me. It was third from the head on the left, and I sat down there. The two parties of Persons were separated at the door, which faced the east, and again in the west, which was the head of the lodge, so that the Spirit-trail from east to west was open, if any wished to travel that way. On neither side were the Persons the same as I. All were different, but I knew now that they had rights in the world, as I had, that Ah-badt-dadt-deah had created them, as He had me and other men. Nobody there told me this, but I felt it in the lodge as I felt the presence of the Persons. I knew that to live on the world I must concede that those Persons across the lodge who had not wished me to sit with them had work to do, and that I could not prevent them from doing it. I felt a little afraid but was glad I was there.

'Take these, Plenty-coups.' The person at the head of the lodge on the north side handed me several beautiful first-feathers of a war-eagle.

I looked into his eyes. He was a Dwarf-Person, chief of the Little-people who live in the Medicine-rock, which you can almost see from here, and who made the stone arrow points. I now saw that all on my side were the same as he, that all were Dwarfs not tall as my knee.

Now, this is where my attention skyrocketed. What comes next in the book, is Frank Linderman's take on the Dwarfs, or Little-people. Again, this is no longer Plenty-coups speaking, it is the author/interviewer of the book.

The Dwarfs or Little-people are legendary beings, supposed to possess great physical strength. In the story of "Lost Boy," a Crow saw one of the Dwarfs shoulder a full-grown bull elk and walk with it on his shoulder. They dwell in Medicine-rock, near Pryor, Montana. The Little-people made the stone arrow heads, the Crows believe.

All the Indian tribes of the Northwestern plains, with whom I am acquainted, possess legends that deal with the makers of the stone arrow points which are scattered so plentifully over North America. These legends, together with the knowledge that identical stone arrow points are found in Europe, led me, long ago, to the belief that our plains Indians neither made nor used them--that some other people made them. Careful inquiry among very old Indians, beginning in 1886, has not discovered a single tribesman who had ever heard of his own people making stone arrow points. These old men have told me that before the white man came, their arrow points were of bone.

Plenty-coups, after some dialogue with the Dwarfs in the lodge, is told this upon departing by the Dwarf-chief:

'In you, as in all men, are natural powers. You have a will. Learn to use it. Make it work for you. Sharpen your senses as you sharpen your knife. Remember the wolf smells better than you do because he has learned to depend on his nose. It tells him every secret the winds carry because he uses it all the time, makes it work for him. We can give you nothing. You already possess everything necessary to become great. Use your powers. Make them work for you, and you will become a Chief'

An uplifting ending to the scene, I think. Sounds like the secret of the Ancient Mysteries to me.

What does ATS think?

posted on Oct, 30 2009 @ 04:24 PM
This documentary by Jim Marrs is why I really caught on to the occurrences in Plenty-Coups.

It is about Deer Lodge, Montana. Very Interesting, I suggest a look-see.

Google Video Link

Similar descriptions of Little guys. Hypnotherapy like the new 'Fourth Kind' movie.

Hollywood definitely is watching ATS.

posted on Jan, 24 2010 @ 12:47 AM
Very cool thread!
I haven't watched the video yet, but already enjoyed the reading.
I will definitely be looking into this.

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 12:36 PM
reply to post by ThePublicSpirit

Thanks for the reply, and you can imagine my excitement when I got to write about aliens and native americans... for credit!

I do have a paper on this if anyone is interested, not that its any good.

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 12:57 PM
Why would aliens need to make small arrowheads?

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 01:16 PM
reply to post by DoomsdayRex

Thanks for the post, but I think you are missing the point.

If Native Americans say they didn't make them, and have stories of the Little People that did, then where does that leave us?

It leaves us with an avenue for research, and a connection(possibly) to a bigger picture in the 'conspiracy' world.

It is just not accurate for you to assume that the reason arrowheads are found all over the world is from similar Indigenous cultures.

Just like there is little evidence for the pyramids actually being tombs, we just don't know for sure. I suspect the reason we think arrowheads are from native peoples is because we assumed it so.

And also, on a final note, I am getting the implication that you have a background assumption of what aliens are, their culture, and level of technology.

Perhaps the arrowheads are much older(like coming up out of the ground with shells) and it really was our ancestors - we just have no reference for any of it. And with that thought, who says our ancestors weren't these same beings? There is a large school of thought for the paleocontact, genetic engineering of the 'human being' emerging.

I am all ears to new possibilities/information.

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 01:48 PM

Originally posted by beebs
If Native Americans say they didn't make them, and have stories of the Little People that did, then where does that leave us?

It leaves us with an avenue for research, and a connection(possibly) to a bigger picture in the 'conspiracy' world.

What you are left with is mythology.These tribes found ancient arrowheads, left by the previous inhabitants of the land (either their forebears or other tribes) and being they had no written or oral records of these inhabitants invented a mythology around them. You are also assuming that Linderman or Plenty-Coup's claims had any basis at all. You are stopping at unverified claims and mythology? Why not investigate further to see what archaeologists of today have to say?

Your theory that Plenty-Coup's dwarves are actually aliens is based on the most superficial connection. They are small. So what? Do you take every myth and legend at face-value?

[edit on 25-1-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 02:17 PM
Fans of this thread might want to checkout this thread as well.

it involves a modern day encounter with a little person of the wilderness...

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 03:04 PM
reply to post by DoomsdayRex

Yes, you are mostly correct. Another point that I forgot to emphasize is the nature of Plenty-Coups experience. He was dreaming or hallucinating, presumably, when he encountered them.

The 'mythologies' arise from this experience(which is similar for many native peoples).

I doubt they found the arrowheads, and then concocted stories about little peoples, who just so happened to make the arrowheads. Encounters with little people could have happened in the dreamstate 'everywhen' for generations, and thus stories and information arose in the culture about those beings. I suggest you research '___', a psychedelic in which users report SIMILAR experiences every time.

I guess if you place no merit on mind experiences, and the possibility of a more real reality in the un/sub-conscious, then of course the native peoples must be mistaken.

But to them, the experience is as real as this 'reality'. This didn't just 'happen' to Plenty-Coups. He was actively going out, fasting, and preparing spiritually for it to happen, because he wanted guidance after losing a loved one. It is a cultural practice to do what PC did.

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 03:08 PM
reply to post by liquidsmoke206

Thanks for the link, very interesting story. It does seem to mimic the similar story elements as described in this thread, as well as other reports of little guys.

I might have missed it in that thread, but do you know the whereabouts of that story?

One of the interesting points I brought up in this thread, is the close proximity between Jim Marrs documentary, and the location of the Montana Indian tribes and their 'mythologies'.

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 03:19 PM
So perhaps the last dominant species/race/group on Earth was that of the Pygmies.

Arrowheads are found all over the globe, and perhaps at one time so were the little people.

The term pygmy, as used to refer to diminutive people, derives from Greek Pygmaioi via Latin Pygmaei (sing. Pygmaeus), a measure of length corresponding to the distance between the elbow and knuckles. (See also Greek pechus). In Greek mythology the word describes a tribe of dwarves, first described by Homer, and reputed to live in India and south of modern day Ethiopia.[8]

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 03:48 PM
I've been interested in the mythologies of different cultures for years. I share some of Joseph Campbell's interpretations regarding archetypes. There are similarities and recurrent characters and situations in Egyptian, Greek, Norse and Native American myths.

Personally, I don't think taking the myths literally is really productive. Viewing them as aspects of the human experience is more interesting. Most have the wise man, the trickster, the young warrior, the powerful man's daughter etc. These are characters embedded deep in the human psyche. Check out Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and more. They have always been a part of our story.

Regarding the stone arrow heads. There's no question that they aren't human made. We know the methods of their making. We've got 'industrial' sites where they were made in great quantities. Such sites yield burials and grave goods by which we can date them. The layers these assemblages are found in are cross-checked against the diatoms within the layer of earth. It isn't guess work. It's analytical study referenced against myriad supporting areas of archaeology.

Different styles of lithic points have regional differences and show development over years that help to date them to specific periods. The stone can be pinpointed to exact geological areas. From these areas, migration and trade routes can be plotted.

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 04:11 PM
reply to post by Kandinsky

Spectacular summary. This is exactly what I thought of arrowheads before. I still more or less subscribe to that conventional explanation, but find it fascinating what the native people have to say about it - because I tend to believe that indigenous people are themselves surrounded by hidden knowledge they may even not understand.

What purpose does the 'myths' of little people serve? Just to justify arrowheads?

Is it impossible to think that perhaps something happened(with regards to 'little people'), and therefore the cultures talk about the event and pass it down in a format us westerners call 'myth'?

What purpose do giants serve in myths? Isn't it amazing that isolated cultures told stories in the same structures, with the same characters and descriptions...

Our generation will have to duke it out on this issue, as it seems to be the most mainstream and controversial topic.

2 Camps: 1. Myths are myths, and thats all they ever were or will be.
2. Myths are perhaps something more than myths.

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 08:53 PM

Originally posted by beebs
I doubt they found the arrowheads, and then concocted stories about little peoples, who just so happened to make the arrowheads...

What purpose does the 'myths' of little people serve? Just to justify arrowheads?

Why not? That is the essence of mythology. Presented with something they could not readily explain, they invented an explanation. It still happens today.

The same thing happened in Europe during the Dark Ages. A few mere centuries after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire the glory and capabilities of the civilization were all but forgotten. Instead, it was believed a race of giants built the crumbling ruins.

Originally posted by beebs
I guess if you place no merit on mind experiences, and the possibility of a more real reality in the un/sub-conscious, then of course the native peoples must be mistaken.

Not necessarily. Did he meet these dwarfs because they are real beings or because they existed only in his subconscious, built from the stories and folklore of his people?

Originally posted by beebs
But to them, the experience is as real as this 'reality'...

They may have believed it to be reality but that doesn't make it reality.

Originally posted by beebs
...I tend to believe that indigenous people are themselves surrounded by hidden knowledge they may even not understand.

That is a soft, albeit unintentional, racism. It is a variation of the noble savage counterstereotype. (to be certain, I am not saying you are racist at all. Rather, it is a cultural construct.)

Originally posted by beebs
Is it impossible to think that perhaps something happened(with regards to 'little people'), and therefore the cultures talk about the event and pass it down in a format us westerners call 'myth'?

No, but the preponderance of evidence suggests otherwise...

Originally posted by beebs
What purpose do giants serve in myths? Isn't it amazing that isolated cultures told stories in the same structures, with the same characters and descriptions...

Giants served several roles. Like in the examples of the Roman ruins and little people above, giants were a stand-in explanation for what was otherwise unexplainable by ancient peoples.

Giants were also an intermediary step between humans and the gods. They were beings capable of challenging the gods but not so powerful as to not be threatened by mortals. In many ways, giants represented the symbolic epitome of humanity.

You should pick up the book "Frauds, Myths and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology." I think you'd enjoy it.

[edit on 25-1-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 09:11 PM
I wrote this for a similiar thread not to long ago regarding my own long ago exploration and search of the "Little Men of the Pryers"

When I was 16 the older sister of the bass player of the band I played the drums in talked me into going deep into and onto an Indian Reservation close to Billings Montana to look for what she called 'The little men of the Briars'.

She described them much the way you described them so late one night after a show and a party we headed out in her car along with a guitar player and roadie from the band to drive for hours into the wilderness of the reservation to where just before the sun came up the last of the dirt roads turned to grass covered trails.

We stopped a spell to climb the sheer face of a near by rock bluff that towered hundreds of feet over a nearby valley to watch the sun come up on a panorama that was devoid of a single road, telephone pole, fence or sign of man for as far as the eye could see, which had to be about 25 miles.

We got back in her car and proceeded to drive along the narrowing dirt trail that was so overgrown a car could hardly pass until the point she got stuck in a mud flat which her car just dug deeper into as she tried to drive out of it.

She laughed and said you know we are trespassing here; the Indians who live on this reservation can legally shoot us if they find us.

We proceeded to fashion some digging tools from branches and thick pieces of broken tree bark and low and behold I hit something with a metallic twang and within a few moments unearthed a bottle of Whiskey that had it's label completely worn off and had been buried in the soft mud for heavens knows how long.

We cracked it open and bravely each took a swig to determine in fact that it was Whiskey and as the other two guys in our party of four started passing it back and forth between them merrily while sitting in the mud scraping at the rear tires, she announced to the assembled party that she and I were going to take a break and a stroll to see if we could spot the "Little men of the Briars".

I was skeptical of course, being from big cities, having never heard of such a thing, and the Bass Player who was 19, and his sister who was 23 and married to a rather odd older man where all 'eccentric' to say the least.

She had been telling me stories about these "little men" half the night, at the party after the show, during the long drive, and now as we walked a good couple of miles into the woods well past where the road became a barely discernable path till we finally reached a natural clearing in the woods similar to the one in your story.

It was early summer and early morning and full of wild flowers and high soft grass with a few thick fallen tree logs for seats too.

She said well here we are this is where I always find them...

In fact she said there is one here now...

I looked all around the meadow peering into the trees and the forest that surrounded it trying to detect one of these 'little men'.

Finally I looked at her and said, I don't see him, where...

She pointed at me and said...right here, you are the little man of the Briar today...sorry it's the only way I could get you away from everyone to be alone with you!

As we enjoyed an hours long interlude frolicking about the meadow giggling at the cleverness of her wiles, determination and deception she finally said...well we better get back before someone gets suspicious, I am sure they are nice and drunk by now and haven't really noticed how long we have been gone, but better safe than sorry.

I agreed and said to her, kind of convenient me digging up that bottle of Whiskey like that then huh?

Yeah, she smiled a mischievous smile again and said that’s why I buried it there on my last trip!

I nearly choked when she said that...

I said well I hope they at least got your car dug out, it's going to be a real mess if we can't get it out of that mud hole...

She smiled and laughed again...oh I could have rocked out of that mud hole in three seconds and will, I just needed to give the guys something to do while I was kidnapping you!

True to her word we returned to the car to find the other two guys falling down drunk and hardly having made a dent in the mud that just kept seeping back in on itself as they tried to dig it out, and they pronounced freeing the car hopeless.

She smiled and said well let me try rocking it out one more time and it took her all of three seconds like she said to get the car back on solid navigable land.

I don't know about the Little Men you friend saw, but there are truly "Little Men of the Briars" and evidently so I am told I am one of them.

As Joe Walsh would say "Life’s been good to me so far"

Sorry I wasn't up to rewriting it tonight, but as you can see from my own accounts some of the locals think these little men are real!

posted on Jan, 25 2010 @ 09:44 PM
Good post and comments here.I was stumbling this afternoon and came a cross this.Faires and UFO's

I found it interesting a would like to share it.

I have always believed that what some today describe as alien visitors were what is considered fairies,elves,gnomes etc. in mythology and oral histories around the world.

They live here in a different dimension.

These two fellows were on the radio talknig about them recently.

In the first half of the program, psychic mediums Christopher Valentine and Dr. Christian von Lahr talked about the world of Nature Spirits.

According to the duo, these creatures are a real form of life that begins as spirit (just as we do) and then individualizes into Gnomes, Elves, Fairies, Leprechauns and Pixies. Valentine described Gnomes as a foot to a foot and a half in height and stocky in appearance.

They originated in Scandinavia and bear a remarkable resemblance to garden store gnome statuary, with their tall conical red or green hats, backpacks and clogs. Valentine said everybody has two Gnomes whose main purpose is to help with their health aura.

Leprechauns are seen wearing black hats with buckles and special Fairy-made vests, which Valentine pointed out, "helps them traverse into the astral plane where they make seemingly magical things happen for us." Commenting on Hollywood's negative depiction of Leprechauns in movies, von Lahr said, "It is literally impossible for [Nature Spirits] to be negative or evil in any way because they are sourced from the Angelic Kingdom." Nature Spirits are actively involved in the process of bringing humans into existence, nurturing plant life, cleansing us from negativity, and bringing balance and harmony to our lives, Valentine expounded.

Citing his interview with a Pixie, Valentine disclosed that they are responsible for our moments of insight or inspiration, and appear as flashes our sparkles of light. The two men also discussed the difficulty in seeing Nature Spirits. Valentine explained they are made of a very light material called 'etheric matter' that is almost transparent to the human eye. Initially, it took years for us to develop a way to see them, von Lahr said. Now, we teach people to use their eyes differently and they can usually see Nature Spirits within 40 minutes to an hour, remarking that most will only see outlines at first. With practice, however, these creatures can be seen in bright color and form, Valentine added.

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