To Christans, and Muslims from Pagans.

Let me preface this thread by stating this, I am pagan. I believe in many gods. Those gods are man made gods. I also believe in an ultimate being(s) those that brought forth the universe and everything it holds within it. My hope is, to incite a discussion and bring with it an understanding of two religions, that aren't that dissimilar. It is in these commonalities I believe that true understanding, peace, and actual progress can be made.

Now why do I have the audacity to claim I can help bring these two religions closer together? Well the truth is, I can't, I am not going to try, but what I will do is try and bring some understanding to both sides and hopefully change a few minds in the process. It is not my place to say your religion is wrong, it's not my place to tell you what to think.

Some misconceptions that are widely held by Christians and Muslims about each others religion exist. I believe this is the problem with finding peace with each other and finding a co existence that should be reached.

What I find funny is that both sides let the extreme view speak for their religion. This I feel is wrong. Most Christians I know are quite happy with their religion, don't want to shove it down anyone's throat, don't want to kill anyone, and just want to be peaceful. But there are some of you who insist on being loud and annoying and preach hatred and intolerance.

The same goes with my Muslim friends, none of whom hate me because I am an American, none of whom judge me because I believe something different from them. None of whom have any plans whatsoever of jihad against anyone. It's just not in them. To these people, they don't care if your Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, Pagan, whatever. They feel the way they do and in fact their doctrine forbids them from pushing their religion upon anyone.

Yes there are those that want to hurt people that believe differently from them. They are nutcases. There are those that believe that if you aren't their religion you should die, they are nutcases. Unfortunately these nutcases for the most part are the ones that are allowed to speak the loudest. It's because these nutcases are the ones that have some chip on their shoulders and have some skewed vision of their faith that blinds them to what is good about being their faith.

Do you know that both Christians and Muslims believe in the hierarchy of angels? Gabriel is the greatest of the angels in the Islamic faith.

Islam also believes in the virginal birth of Jesus by Mary. In fact they believe that god sent Jesus to earth as a messenger. Islam also believes in a second coming of Christ.

They also believe in the prophet Moses. They hold Moses in high esteem.

So you can see, Islam and Christianity aren't really that far apart if you really look at the big picture. It's just how these faiths are practiced that separate you from each other.

Three religions, separated by writing styles. That's all it really is. Be true to your religion. But know that the Muslim, or the Jew, or the Pagan, or the Buddhist, or the Taoist, is also your brother. He won't hate you if you don't hate him. Isn't it the word of god to love your neighbor? Isn't it the word of god to be peaceful? I think the true believers in these faiths have much more to gain from acknowledging the similarities in their religions than to point out the differences.

I agree 100%

If people would sit back and just read a little bit they will see many religions talk about the same thing just with different stories or names. I have always found this part interesting. I dont care what religion you are I dont want it pushed on me and I dont push my beliefs on you....That is how I am and my best friend is an extreme southern baptist and Im more or less wiccan. Its amazing how we are able to get along but we dont force our beliefs on one another and I have known her since I was in in 8th grade...

Flag and a star even though you dont see it..lol

reply to post by mblahnikluver


From what I have read on these subjects the only real difference is writing styles. The more and more I look at it, Muslims, Christians and Jews all believe the same thing only with subtle differences. It's like Catholics, and Protestants. At the real base these three religions say the exact same thing, even include the same characters in the plot. It's just interpretation that makes the division.

It's amazing if you actually get to know people for the people they are what similarities you have in common.

Originally posted by whatukno
Let me preface this thread by stating this, I am pagan. I believe in many gods. Those gods are man made gods. I also believe in an ultimate being(s) those that brought forth the universe and everything it holds within it. My hope is, to incite a discussion and bring with it an understanding of two religions, that aren't that dissimilar. It is in these commonalities I believe that true understanding, peace, and actual progress can be made.

Now why do I have the audacity to claim I can help bring these two religions closer together? Well the truth is, I can't, I am not going to try, but what I will do is try and bring some understanding to both sides and hopefully change a few minds in the process. It is not my place to say your religion is wrong, it's not my place to tell you what to think.

Some misconceptions that are widely held by Christians and Muslims about each others religion exist. I believe this is the problem with finding peace with each other and finding a co existence that should be reached.

What I find funny is that both sides let the extreme view speak for their religion. This I feel is wrong. Most Christians I know are quite happy with their religion, don't want to shove it down anyone's throat, don't want to kill anyone, and just want to be peaceful. But there are some of you who insist on being loud and annoying and preach hatred and intolerance.

The same goes with my Muslim friends, none of whom hate me because I am an American, none of whom judge me because I believe something different from them. None of whom have any plans whatsoever of jihad against anyone. It's just not in them. To these people, they don't care if your Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, Pagan, whatever. They feel the way they do and in fact their doctrine forbids them from pushing their religion upon anyone.

Yes there are those that want to hurt people that believe differently from them. They are nutcases. There are those that believe that if you aren't their religion you should die, they are nutcases. Unfortunately these nutcases for the most part are the ones that are allowed to speak the loudest. It's because these nutcases are the ones that have some chip on their shoulders and have some skewed vision of their faith that blinds them to what is good about being their faith.

Do you know that both Christians and Muslims believe in the hierarchy of angels? Gabriel is the greatest of the angels in the Islamic faith.

Islam also believes in the virginal birth of Jesus by Mary. In fact they believe that god sent Jesus to earth as a messenger. Islam also believes in a second coming of Christ.

They also believe in the prophet Moses. They hold Moses in high esteem.

So you can see, Islam and Christianity aren't really that far apart if you really look at the big picture. It's just how these faiths are practiced that separate you from each other.

Three religions, separated by writing styles. That's all it really is. Be true to your religion. But know that the Muslim, or the Jew, or the Pagan, or the Buddhist, or the Taoist, is also your brother. He won't hate you if you don't hate him. Isn't it the word of god to love your neighbor? Isn't it the word of god to be peaceful? I think the true believers in these faiths have much more to gain from acknowledging the similarities in their religions than to point out the differences.

You're way off here.

First, it's not your moderate Muslims that are an issue here. Muslims and Christians get along just fine for the most part but rather it's the radical extremists that want to kill all infidels (non-believers) that are the issue. There will never be peace between them and non-believers.

Second and last....that was a short list.....Jesus is the key here, He is the Cornerstone and the dividing line that separates Islam from Christianity. Islam teaches OF Jesus but denies His deity. Christians hold to Jesus as God in the flesh, Muslims deny it. Jesus to them is but a prophet and not the Savior, the Messiah.

No other amount of "similarities" between the two beliefs can ever close that chasm.

reply to post by TangoVooDoo


Like I said, it's not my place to tell you what to think. I personally believe that Moderate Muslims, and Moderate Christians need to speak louder than the extremists that exits in both sides. Cause it's the extremists on both sides that are making everyone look bad and causing wars.

Christians are speaking just fine but you won't find many moderate Muslims calling out the extremists for their wrong and evil ways. They would then be seen as infidels or sympathizers and become targets themselves.

reply to post by TangoVooDoo

Christians are speaking just fine but you won't find many moderate Muslims calling out the extremists for their wrong and evil ways. They would then be seen as infidels or sympathizers and become targets themselves.

I seriously doubt that. Both sides need to keep the nutbags from spouting off at the mouth. Both sides have a lot in common. If they would just sit down together and talk it over instead of having the political powers do it for them. This world would be a much better place.

reply to post by TangoVooDoo

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
Christians hold to Jesus as God in the flesh, Muslims deny it. Jesus to them is but a prophet and not the Savior, the Messiah.

Actually, muslims DO believe that Jesus was the prophecised Messiah. Sure, they don't believe he was God, but then again, neither do all christians (although I suppose YOU wouldn't call them christians).

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
Christians are speaking just fine but you won't find many moderate Muslims calling out the extremists for their wrong and evil ways. They would then be seen as infidels or sympathizers and become targets themselves.

Really? I don't find this to be really true. A cursory google will prove my point.


As for the original point, yes, it is true that muslims believe in angels, and many "supernatural" beings, but for them, only God is worthy of worship.
I agree with you in principle, much of christian-muslim dialogue is centred around misconceptions and preconceptions.

[edit on 30-10-2009 by babloyi]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by TangoVooDoo

 

Christians are speaking just fine but you won't find many moderate Muslims calling out the extremists for their wrong and evil ways. They would then be seen as infidels or sympathizers and become targets themselves.

I seriously doubt that. Both sides need to keep the nutbags from spouting off at the mouth. Both sides have a lot in common. If they would just sit down together and talk it over instead of having the political powers do it for them. This world would be a much better place.

You cannot sit down with an extremist, from any belief, and expect to reason with them. Islamic extremists want you dead, they do not wish to talk. You either bow to Allah or you die, you're an infidel.

How many moderate muslims do you see speaking out against the extremists? I have found very......very few. Why is that? I would guess, fear.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by TangoVooDoo

 

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
Christians hold to Jesus as God in the flesh, Muslims deny it. Jesus to them is but a prophet and not the Savior, the Messiah.

Actually, muslims DO believe that Jesus was the prophecised Messiah. Sure, they don't believe he was God, but then again, neither do all christians (although I suppose YOU wouldn't call them christians).

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
Christians are speaking just fine but you won't find many moderate Muslims calling out the extremists for their wrong and evil ways. They would then be seen as infidels or sympathizers and become targets themselves.

Really? I don't find this to be really true. A cursory google will prove my point.


As for the original point, yes, it is true that muslims believe in angels, and many "supernatural" beings, but for them, only God is worthy of worship.
I agree with you in principle, much of christian-muslim dialogue is centred around misconceptions and preconceptions.

[edit on 30-10-2009 by babloyi]

Incorrect. Muslims hold that Jesus was "A" messiah but not THE Messiah. To them Jesus did not die on the cross which is the very essence of "Messiah" (Savior) within Scripture.

To be "Christ" followers means that you hold to Jesus being God incarnate, born of a virgin, He was crucified, buried and the 3rd day rose again. The rejection of these means one is not a Christian or Believer......or better yet, God calls ALL Believers it's not their literal choice therefore all those who are called are Christians, the Elected.

Hey Tango!
reply to post by TangoVooDoo

No, actually, Jesus Christ is the ONLY Prophet given the title of "Messiah" in the Quran, no other prophet was called Messiah. So yeah, he'd be THE Messiah, according to Islamic Scriptures. It is right there in their text!

Yes, according to muslims, Jesus did not die on the cross. But the definition/essence of "Messiah" is not "One who dies on the cross for mankind". I'm sure there are no Jews out there in the world who are waiting for their Messiah to come and die on the cross.

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
To be "Christ" followers means that you hold to Jesus being God incarnate, born of a virgin, He was crucified, buried and the 3rd day rose again.

I'd rather take Jesus's words over yours According to him, the most important stuff didn't have anything to do with anybody being crucified:
" 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' and 'Love your neighbour as yourself.'


Oh, and I repeat once again,

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
How many moderate muslims do you see speaking out against the extremists? I have found very......very few. Why is that? I would guess, fear.

Originally posted by babloyi
Really? I don't find this to be really true. A cursory google will prove my point.

Or to put it another way:
How many muslims do you know personally?
How many of these muslims support the extremists?

Originally posted by babloyi
Hey Tango!
reply to post by TangoVooDoo

 

No, actually, Jesus Christ is the ONLY Prophet given the title of "Messiah" in the Quran, no other prophet was called Messiah. So yeah, he'd be THE Messiah, according to Islamic Scriptures. It is right there in their text!

Yes, according to muslims, Jesus did not die on the cross. But the definition/essence of "Messiah" is not "One who dies on the cross for mankind". I'm sure there are no Jews out there in the world who are waiting for their Messiah to come and die on the cross.

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
To be "Christ" followers means that you hold to Jesus being God incarnate, born of a virgin, He was crucified, buried and the 3rd day rose again.

I'd rather take Jesus's words over yours

According to him, the most important stuff didn't have anything to do with anybody being crucified:
" 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' and 'Love your neighbour as yourself.'


Oh, and I repeat once again,

Originally posted by TangoVooDoo
How many moderate muslims do you see speaking out against the extremists? I have found very......very few. Why is that? I would guess, fear.

Originally posted by babloyi
Really? I don't find this to be really true. A cursory google will prove my point.

Or to put it another way:
How many muslims do you know personally?
How many of these muslims support the extremists?

Again, to Islamic theology Jesus is not the Messiah, in the sense that He is their Savior. The word "messiah" (Mashiach, Christos) holds various meanings within Scripture in that there are "types" (perhaps "lesser" is a better word) of messiahs but there is one to come who would be THE Messiah.

Jews, as well as gentiles, will "know" their Messiah as God draws or calls them to salvation. Jesus Himself said that they (the Jews) believe Moses yet they reject or deny Him who Moses spoke of.

In regards to Jesus and Him saying nothing of being crucified as holding importance I must disagree because the gospels as a whole declare such. He stated that just being "good" is not a ticket to Gods kingdom.

So yes Islam (the Koran) does speak of Jesus, they hold Him in high regard, they speak of Mary and the virgin birth BUT Jesus is NOT God incarnate nor their savior. To the extremists this is blasphemy to say that anything is equal to Allah for Allah has no children. To a Believer it is blasphemy to deny that Jesus is the Savior. The difference is that Believers do not seek to kill you for that denial or rejection.

Are there nut cases who call themselves "Believers"? You bet and I have dealt with many of them, debated many of them and sought to demonstrate to them their ignorance of Scripture and doctrinal issues.

I debated 3 Muslims who came to our church after service on the deity of Christ. It was rather unnerving for a bit but all ended well. Did I convince them? Nope, at least not there. Did they convince me? Nope. Yet moments were hostile on their part because our pastor dared speak ill against Islamic extremists.

I do know Muslims but we do not discuss much in the way of world views and that's fine. As a business owner I deal with and meet all types and I can get along with anyone as long as we show one another mutual respect.

reply to post by whatukno
????

Kinda lost here, Jesus taught us Christians to love our neighbors as ourselves and to bless and pray for our enemies.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


That is true. Probably good advice as well.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

That is true. Probably good advice as well.

Better than 'good' advice, imagine what the world would be like if every single soul followed these commandments of Christ.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Doesn't help Witches out much.

But really, the teachings of the bible are good. If Christians actually follow them.

[edit on 11/8/2009 by whatukno]