posted on May, 19 2004 @ 06:30 PM
This thread is a labyrinth of confusion. For the sake of clarification, I will avoid certain topics (like the accusations that GWB is gay).
I'm one of those bad people some of you have been referring to. I'm a fundie republican and a bible thumper. I don't agree with abortion but
feel that gay people should be allowed to marry if they want, but should not be able to push their sexuality, publically. In other words, I feel as
if they should keep their sexual proclivity to the proper environments. The reason I say this is because it is outside the "norm." Whenever
anything is outside a "norm," society requires and/or requests that you refrain from it in public - such as public nudity and/or indecency,
screaming in restaurants, disturbing the peace, wearing a bikini (and nothing else) to high school graduation, visiting the hospital barefoot and
shirtless, playing in a public water fountain, refusal to bathe or wear deodorant while knowing you'll be in tight quarters with others, displaying
grotesque or violent material to unwilling or unsuspecting viewers, carrying and displaying deadly weapons in full view when you aren't a keeper of
the peace (even if carrying such weapons is legal), giving the punchline out before the joke, pushing movie spoilers on people who don't want to
know the details beforehand, insisting other people hear your sexual fantasies even if they don't want to hear them, preaching the gospel when
uninvited to an unwilling crowd of people in a public venue. Most of the time, when you don't want to hear a preacher on tv, you change the
channel. That works. But in public settings, the channel can't be changed.
Acceptance is a two-way street and if one or both sides won't budge for the other, you can expect this type of problem will never be resolved. If
one side gives ground and the other refuses on the basis that the other side never had a ground to stand on in the first place (et.al, God isn't real
anyway, so the fundies have no grounds for their decisions or gays are bad people and therefore have no grounds for their decisions ), then the
problem will never be resolved. It's as simple as that. It just won't.
The only reason the fundies are all up in arms now is because of lack of social acceptance for their beliefs in the gay community, in fact, the total
rigidity and lack of acceptance with which people of faith are approached by some in the gay community has convinced many fundies that it wouldn't
matter what they did, that the only resolution for the problem would be to not be fundies anymore - that is not an option anymore than asking gay
people to not be gay is an option for those gay people who are happy as they are. It simply cannot be a one-way street folks. No matter how many
times you protest, either against fundies or against gays, nothing will change their postions on the issues - not even one iota, until the people
involved agree to take part in proper social discourse with each other and respect one another as human beings. That's the truth of it, I'm sorry
to say, and because that's the truth of it, it doesn't look as if it's going to change any time soon.
It isn't a matter of bigotry unless all sides in the debate are called bigots - which, if they can't accept each other, is the truth of it. A bigot
is a bigot - and it doesn't matter what they choose to do with their sexual organs, they will still be bigots if they can't give any ground to the
other side. By give ground I mean, we live in a free society where free will is the deciding factor in moral decisions. We can try to convince each
other to see things our way, but not at the expense of their humanity, not at the expense of respect for the real human being under the title "gay"
or the title "fundie." When our public schools insist they have the right to force a general moral code on people of varying degrees of
fundamentalism (no matter what religion), then the respect for the members of society who call themselves "religious" begins to wane. That's bad
form and it starts the ball rolling into the type of scenarios you're seeing now. Action, opposite reaction.
That's the message I believe Jesus speaks of. You can't love a person while condemning them. You can't say, I love you but your sin offends me so
much that I want to usurp your God-given free will and force you to have certain behaviors when in the privacy of your own home or when in
environments clearly indicated for your behaviors.
Being anti-gay and going into a gay community and insisting they modify their behavior is like being anti-fundie and going into a church and insisting
they modify their behavior. It never resolves anything. It increases bigotry on both sides, and the only after effect is a bunch of angry people.
The negativity from such an event overrides any positive message of salvation or understanding.
I think alot of christians and americans of various religious backgrounds agree with this principle. But putting into action requires understanding
on both sides, and from all appearances, the understanding has been demanded and that's the same thing as demanding that you usurp the free will of
religious people, not to have stuff pushed in their faces that they don't want, especially in public venues.
It's all about respect, which is woefully absent on both sides at the moment, primarily because it was woefully absent for gays for many years and
then the opposite reaction of woefully absent for religious folks for many years. It's the pendulum swinging from extreme to extreme. Only YOU can
stop the spin by refusing to give in to the finger pointing and hate mongering that is prevalent when neither side will respect the other's wishes.
The solution is not easy, but it is available. Yes, I know this is idealistic pie-in-the-sky, but it's certainly better than giving in to the hate.
Personally, I don't agree with homosexuality and wouldn't practice it, but my decisions are my own, that's what free will is all about. In a free
will society, this should be reciprocated on all sides as that is the premise of free will. But it has not been, historically and probably never will
be. All we can hope for is to win minor skirmishes along the way, to promote understanding between opposing positions.
Honey not vinegar.
[Edited on 19-5-2004 by Undomiel]
[Edited on 19-5-2004 by Undomiel]