Your in the Matrix Like It or Not

The Simulation Hypothesis proposes that reality is in fact a simulation of which those affected by the simulants are generally unaware. The hypothesis does not have global scope since, if true, it entails that there is a reality that is not a simulation as there must be a place housing the machinery on which the simulation is being run. The hypothesis itself relies on the development of simulated reality, currently regarded as a fictional technology. This technology has been a central plot device of many science-fiction films, most notably Star Trek, The Truman Show, Dark City, The Thirteenth Floor and The Matrix, as well as stories such as I don't know, Timmy, being God is a big responsibility[1] and A Very Special Shutdown Notice[2]. The Simulation Hypothesis has become the subject of serious academic debate within the field of transhumanism, via the work of Nick Bostrom and others

en.wikipedia.org...

Simulated reality is the proposition that reality could be simulated—perhaps by computer simulation—to a degree indistinguishable from "true" reality. It could contain conscious minds which may or may not know that they are living inside a simulation. In its strongest form, the "simulation hypothesis" claims it is possible and even probable that we are actually living in such a simulation.

en.wikipedia.org...

Nick Bostrom (born Niklas Boström in 1973) is a Swedish philosopher at the University of Oxford known for his work on existential risk and the Anthropic principle. He holds a PhD from the London School of Economics (2000). He is currently the director of The Future of Humanity Institute at Oxford University.

en.wikipedia.org...

On the surface, Bostrom's simulation hypothesis is an example of a skeptical hypothesis, a proposal concerning the nature of reality put forward to question beliefs, and as such, there is a long history to the underlying thesis that reality is an illusion. This thesis can be dated back to Plato, arguably underpins the Mind-Body Dualism of Descartes, and is closely related to phenomenalism, a stance briefly adopted by Bertrand Russell. However, Bostrom has argued that this is not the case, and that there are empirical reasons why the 'Simulation Hypothesis' might be valid. He suggests that if it is possible to simulate entire inhabited planets or even entire universes on a computer, and that such simulated people can be fully conscious, then the sheer number of such simulations likely to be produced by any sufficiently advanced civilization (taken together with his Strong Self-Sampling Assumption) makes it extremely likely that we are in fact currently living in such a simulation.

Bostrom contends that at least one of the following statements is overwhelmingly likely to be true:

Almost no civilization will reach a level of technological maturity capable of producing simulated realities.

Almost no civilization reaching aforementioned technological status will produce a simulated reality, for any of a number of reasons, such as diversion of computational processing power for other tasks, ethical considerations of holding entities captive in simulated realities, etc.
Almost all entities with our general set of experiences are living in a simulation.

Now a New Zealand scientist is saying that physicists should seriously explore the idea. Brian Whitworth at Massey University says that it is perfectly reasonable to conjecture that "the world is an information simulation running on a three-dimensional space-time screen". Deciding whether or not this is true is a matter for science to resolve.

Assuming Whitworth is serious, what should we make of this idea? He readily admits that this is a weird idea but points out that it is no more strange than many widely held views in physics such as the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, the big bang and Boltzmann brains.

So how would we be able to tell if our universe was a simulation? Whitworth says that if reality was to do something that information processing cannot, then it cannot be virtual. But he falls short of suggesting what this might be.

(As an aside, there are plenty of mathematical algorithms that are incomputable. They are the products of a physical human mind, so if they count as something that information processing could not come up with, Whitworth's idea is already dead in the water.)

Whitworth goes on to suggest various ways in which phenomenon associated with quantum mechanics and relativity can be explained in terms of VR.

www.newscientist.com...

And now i will give you a choise



What do you think?







[edit on 23-10-2009 by constantwonder]

I was just thinking about this last night. We are all the matrix in a sense. We are forced to live according to our society's standards. Many people live automated lives without really thinking much.
I was thinking how I do Not want to plug into the matrix or soceity. I really wish I could opt out and live in an alterntive society that is more real and not so contrived. Look at the swine flu, the lies our governments tells us and how they urge us to take the vaccine at every turn.
It is much like do you want to take the red or blue pill.


[edit on 23-10-2009 by dreamseeker]

what a boring simulation. I want my character moved to a simulation with dragons, superheroes, aliens, and sorcerers.
And I want endless lives where I cant restart at the place I last died with all my experience points and gold.

When i finally get my hands on that white rabbit....i tell ya!!!

We live we die, get use to it, make a difference when yr neither of the two.

ENJOY!!!

With all the crap that is going on, it HAS to be running Windows.

"Your..."

HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAH

I don't make mistakes because I am Mr. Smith.

The matrix we currently live in is a matrix of hidden truth that is presented to us in a form of religious and moral dogma. Unlike the movie however, the architects of the matrix do not have the full control of the biological program as they would like.

Not until RFID technology as mass implemented will we live in such a place as presented to us in the Hollywood film. That truly is the matrix and if that were to happen the powers that be would have absolute control.

[edit on 23-10-2009 by 12.21.12]

Wouldn't the entire "Matrix" concept be the ideal belief we are simply within it? I mean, there is no set in stone, plausible answer stating we are or we aren't. To our knowledge, we live, and we die. That's it. Should we really spend our time looking deeper into such a theory if we know the outcome of this all? Whether we find out we are in a "Matrix", don't you think if you believe hard enough that you are in it, you can break out?

There is a theory stating that if you think of something, no matter what it is, it exists within our universe; can't we just say the matrix IS our universe and their is another one beyond that? And what then? Would that not lead to the ones controlling the matrix being in something such as that as well?

reply to post by WanderingParadox


I think its not a matrix like in the movie, but I have zero doubt the universe is much stranger than what we think. Us humans can only understand what we know, and right now the idea of a virtual reality is popular because we are living in a computerized world.

It makes sense to us that the world is a simulation rather than some kind of random creation where everything just seems to fit. Looking at the universe, you cant really ignore all the random stuff that is needed to keep us alive on this planet and wonder if its really random.

We probably cant even imagine what the universe is yet. Its probably beyond human understanding.


[edit on 23-10-2009 by Copernicus]

Ah, there we go. I like how you stated it is beyond human understanding. Now, with that played, I have a question of the matter. What exactly can be the creators of the "Matrix"? They rule our universe, yes, however, what would be the reason of us being in here in the first place? If they created us and everything we do, surely they must be aware that we are wondering this right now or discussing about it. That in mind, can they not stop us? If we keep speaking of such, and they don't mind because they "secured" it to the point in which we cannot escape, then what would be our link? Our cause for wondering such a thing?

Like what jesus said, you can be of the world but not part of it.

For me, i doubt things like love exist really, other than hormones, and somehow you create some sort of spiritual link then. But it is still fake.

Being in the matrix, does not mean you have to do what they want, although they can do things like gang stalking like they did to me, to try to force you to play the game, real scum.

Love can merely be considered strong desires for the other. Simply put. To my knowledge, most animals do not know things such as "love", so, I suppose it's something we as humans conducted as the idea behind the concept that we desire something very much.

Anyway, what woiuld be the point of the Matrix then? That's still unanswered. If we don't have to abide by what they want us to do, what would they ever need us for?

Originally posted by WanderingParadox
Love can merely be considered strong desires for the other. Simply put. To my knowledge, most animals do not know things such as "love", so, I suppose it's something we as humans conducted as the idea behind the concept that we desire something very much.

Love is just physical addiction to another person (appearance + personality, if only one match there is no love). I dont find it any more beautiful than two animals in nature because it simply isnt anything special about our "love", despite what the TV show producers and Hollywood tells us.

I dont find it beautiful when two people are in love. Its just natural. So yes, I have to agree with you.



[edit on 23-10-2009 by Copernicus]

I would like to speak with the owner or manager of our reality.

We have trojans, ad-ware and many viruses.

Our hard drive is full and our mother board is not working efficiently.

We have programs running against other programs and neither is producing the desired effect.

Please take me to your leader,I desire an update and a new router.

I would also like more power as I am slowing down and having problems in my memory.

Thanks in advance.

Awesome thread, S & F!!!! The Time Trip / VR link blew my mind.

reply to post by Copernicus


Isn't that technically what I just said? Addiction = Strong desires for another? Animals, in my opinion, know nothing of love?

All the same, we're steering from the topic and I still have my unanswered question.

reply to post by WanderingParadox


I think all humans are just here to make what is called life energy. Life energy is the sexual energies all you people make. Personally i think something is using this energy, like how the matrix film said we are like batteries, the sexual energies we produce are the most important thing we are here for.

You see the way society demonizes people who do not want to have sex, and you must pick your straight or gay, and they are trying to demonise even priests today.

Originally posted by WanderingParadox
Love can merely be considered strong desires for the other. Simply put. To my knowledge, most animals do not know things such as "love", so, I suppose it's something we as humans conducted as the idea behind the concept that we desire something very much.

Anyway, what woiuld be the point of the Matrix then? That's still unanswered. If we don't have to abide by what they want us to do, what would they ever need us for?

Is the Love really always about desiring something?? You talk about sex OK, but did you ever loved something just because it exists? What about the beauty of the Nature, the Stars, Wild animals etc??
What finally about the Love to your fellow human being??? is it always about "desiring", or is it simply the human minds construct, probably only createt by that ugly Religion, so many here fear and hate??
It seems to me I dont "desire" the beggar from Calcuta or even the Taliban killer, anyway I try to see in him the fellow human and as such love him, even if one day we may be forced to fight against each other.
Matrix or not that world is more complicated that some young minds imagine, not only on the subatomic phisics level...

I do believe this could be a possible theory, but would if we are the ones creating the simulation? Would if we are the true reality creating everything? I hope that makes sense to people as this is a good topic and one that i think about a lot.

Originally posted by Lichter daraus
I do believe this could be a possible theory, but would if we are the ones creating the simulation? Would if we are the true reality creating everything? I hope that makes sense to people as this is a good topic and one that i think about a lot.

That is what I believe, as well some theoretical physics theories. WE are creating our own "simulations", or reality. WE ARE the Universe, we are all living different perspectives of reality for some reason, likely because we are actually part of a whole collective conscious, which is the "Universe". We are in essence part of a super organism.

In fact, this very postulate of reality may be dictated by quantum mechanics, specifically the probability distribution, where in it is required by natural law, due to the mechanics of 'reality' that we all propagate our own reality, of course the general comprehension of reality wins out and that is why we all see the same general reality, just with the different twists due to each of our individual perspectives.

Of course this will go even further with all possible scenarios for reality being observed and experienced via parallel realities. When one really looks at it I think it is obvious there is some grand connection between the quantum world, macro world, and the "human experience" of reality.


Thanks to the OP for sparking such an interesting discussion.

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[edit on 10/23/2009 by jkrog08]