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Taser advises police not to aim at chest

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posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 08:37 AM
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Taser advises police not to aim at chest


www.azcentral.com

The maker of Taser stun guns is advising police officers to avoid shooting suspects in the chest with the 50,000-volt weapon, saying that it could pose an extremely low risk of an "adverse cardiac event."

The advisory, issued in an Oct. 12 training bulletin, is the first time that Taser International has suggested there is any risk of a cardiac arrest related to the discharge of its stun gun.

But Taser officials said Tuesday that the bulletin does not state that Tasers can cause cardiac arrest. They said the advisory means only that law-enforcement agencies can avoid controversy over t
(visit the link for the full news article)


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posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 08:37 AM
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I don't understand why this weapon is still in use or misuse depending on the situation..

Too many deaths from a supposedly non lethal from my point of view...

Instead of this advisory.. there should be a complete recall of these until they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are indeed non-lethal..

Until then, law enforcement can rely on the rest of the tools at their disposal should they need to physically handle a suspect..

pdf advisory can be found here:

www.azcentral.com...


www.azcentral.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by JacKatMtn
 


Okay, this gripes me, because I can see both the benefit of using "less lethal" means to subdue a perpetrator as well as I can see the misuse and potential for harm with the possibility of sending someone into a state of cardiac arrest.

With the heart being suggested not to be targeted by the makers of Taser, they are basically now telling Law Enforcement not to even both because the upper body/torso is what is always targeted due to mass of target, just like using their lethal pistols.

So, if they cannot aim the "less than lethal" weapons at the chest to subdue what exactly is the point of having them at all?

I have seen two Police Officers pull the weapons out and one had it pointed at the prisoner's forehead and the other at her left breast, and they were three feet away from her in a cramped room, and knowing what I do of the weapon that distance would have been of little to no assistance to them.

Either something new will now come out due to this or some zany suggestions will fly.

Here is the thread where I re-tell the event :

Disappointed with ATS.


Quote From Above Thread :

The woman is calming down some at this point and I am standing just outside the door and the two junior Police Officer's are watching her, and as they both, simultaneously, turn their back on her, she leaps off the bed, threatening to kick both of their (her words coming here) lilly white butts (last word was not butt) and I do believe full well she meant this at the time because she had convinced me she was uncooperative. She had after all bitten the other Officer who was getting checked out elsewhere.

The other two Security Officer's had gone off to do something at this time, leaving myself with two Police Officer's to deal with this lady, but I got on the radio and requested assistance, to help with her, and I got a confirmation from both Security Officer's that they were en-route.

Before this had even happened though both Police Officer's had pulled out their tazers and were pointing them at this woman, explaining to her they would shoot her with them, ordering her to get back on the bed, or they would be forced to fire, and both men were literally three feet away from her, the room being small as Hell.

Remember, I had rolled the wheelchair out of the room, so I was outside of the room.

I considered, briefly, of trying to step in to distract her, part of our training is to distract a violent patient, but to me this was a no-go because of the drawn tazers, as well as the limited space in the room, this particular tactic could not work here and not only that but I could just see the woman not falling for it and myself being shot with a tazer in the process of these fine Law Enforcement Officer's trying to knock her down.

I did what any smart man would do in this situation.

I took one step back.


[edit on 21-10-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


According to the pdf advisory.. the target zone is now a few inches lower.. the stomach/abdomen area I guess...

If they can show that this device IS as advertised, and NON lethal, I would have no problem with LEOs having this as a tool for enforcement..

I just can't see why these would be even considered since there have been numerous cases of death related to the deployment of this weapon..

Stick to the pepper spray, baton if necessary while this one is under review..

IMO.





[edit on 10/21/2009 by JacKatMtn]



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by JacKatMtn
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


According to the pdf advisory.. the target zone is now a few inches lower.. the stomach/abdomen area I guess...

If they can show that this device IS as advertised, and NON lethal, I would have no problem with LEOs having this as a tool for enforcement..

I just can't see why these would be even considered since there have been numerous cases of death related to the deployment of this weapon..

Stick to the pepper spray, baton if necessary while this one is under review..

IMO.





[edit on 10/21/2009 by JacKatMtn]


I edited my last post to include some of the details I described.

I can agree with you that this is a suggested use weapon but the conflict among Officers probably lies with the fact that they are taught to utilize their guns and aim at the heart to stop a perpetrator and the use of the taser being so close to looking like their handgun, as well as the weight, and shape is probably one of the reasons for the clonflict of why it is aimed at the heart.

I can see as well some Officers might just be inclined to aim there regardless of their training due to not just wanting to subdue the criminal/perpetrator but in wanting to get away with killing them, without the papertrail leading back to a suspension upon investigation through Internal Affairs Division.

I would bet however that the statstics of that are low but not necessarily as low as people might think.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by JacKatMtn
Instead of this advisory.. there should be a complete recall of these until they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are indeed non-lethal..


I disagree as it's always the operator of the weapon that makes the mistake and not the weapon itself. I.E. guns don't kill people...people kill people. Just substitute tazer in that phrase.

IMO, the advisory should also point out that this is indeed a weapon and should be used accordingly. Not just anytime they feel like it (like when a teenage girl starts to talk smack to them).



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 09:42 AM
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www.azcentral.com...

A Canadian government investigation in July concluded that Taser stun guns can cause death, spurring law-enforcement agencies across the country to put severe new restrictions on how and when police there can use the weapons.


============================================

Did you know in over 90% of the Taser death cases, the person shocked didn't even have a weapon.......did you know Taser International has responded to medical examiners saying their weapons kill not by changing their weapons, but by suing the medical examiners.

did you know...there are thousands of deaths caused by Taser... more deaths than are recorded.
EXAMPLE: www.myfoxhouston.com...

Grand Jury Clears Cops in Taser Death

Their excuse, controlled substance


Police officers and Valentine got into a melee on the night of May 17 after they found him rolling in a ditch. Officers fired their Taser guns at him in an attempt to subdue him.

Valentine was arrested but immediately fell ill, so he was transported to a hospital, where he died of heart failure, according to the statement. But an autopsy performed on his body detected the presence of a controlled substance in his system.


Another excuse? controlled substance or excited delirium...


www.wjhg.com...
Posted: 8:51 PM Oct 5, 2009
Man Identified in Taser Death:Update
Local authorities have finally identified the man who died after they stunned him with a taser Friday afternoon. Panama City police and Bay County Sheriff's deputies were conducting a joint drug operation, when they pulled a suspect car at turtle lake apartments. Police have identified the man as 38 year old Rickey R. Massey, of Georgia.

They say he appeared to swallow some drugs he was carrying to keep them from officers and he was tased when he resisted.


Almost immediately after the shock. Massey suffered some type of medical distress.


There are thousands of Deaths caused by Taser that go unrecorded because medical examiners fear law suits and police fear murder charges


============================================



Just a reminder......



Details needed on Fort Worth Taser death

Jacobs, 24, died April 18 after a confrontation with police at his home on Ava Court Drive. Officer Stephanie Phillips shocked Jacobs twice with a Taser. He stopped breathing and was pronounced dead about an hour later at John Peter Smith Hospital.

www.star-telegram.com...


The Fort Worth police officer who shocked a mentally ill man with a Taser earlier this year, leading to his death, will not be disciplined and remains on patrol.



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 09:49 AM
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I fxing tasers. But i hate even more when people claim they are non-lethal.

I am of the school, that ANY object can be lethal. A ball point pen, a baseball bat, scissors, butter knife, can all be considered non-lethal weapons in one persons hand, but in anothers hand they are lethal weapons.

So what is the point of calling something that CAN kill non-lethal?



posted on Oct, 21 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Le Colonel
I fxing tasers. But i hate even more when people claim they are non-lethal.

I am of the school, that ANY object can be lethal. A ball point pen, a baseball bat, scissors, butter knife, can all be considered non-lethal weapons in one persons hand, but in anothers hand they are lethal weapons.

So what is the point of calling something that CAN kill non-lethal?


By design and intent the taser is supposed to be non-lethal.

It is designed to be used at the original poster suggested, aiming at the stomach, or even back, but the usage of it relegates to the user who in the end decides where it is ultimately aimed and or mis-aimed if the user was not trained accurately, or if they decide to mis-use it and fire elsewhere.

The same principle can be said of a rock as a natural object, or if someone picks it up and smashes someone else's head in, was it not designed by God as a piece of Earth and not meant as a weapon?

Just like the other poster mentioned, guns do not kill people (except for stupid accidents), people with guns kill people, just the same goes for tasers not killing people (except for stupid accidents), but people with tasers kill people, and rocks not killing people (except landslides), but people picking up rocks kills people.

This however should not extend to making tasers and guns illegal, rocks cannot be made illegal and that's absurd for anyone even thinking that, but instead focus on the criminal background checks of said people purchasing and or using those weapons, which are in fact tools to be used or not used based upon the need of the level of hostility of the perpetrator and or threatening individual.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Oct, 23 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by JacKatMtn
 


The police do not care about using weapons on people, they can just make up your dong something, and your just another statistic, on the records of life gone.




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