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"An end to democarcy in Ireland" UK Beware !

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posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 05:50 AM
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Nigel Farage speaks out about the Lisbon Treaty blag,

UK citizens desperately need to turn off their soap operas and stay out of the pubs, even for a little while and start to wake up to the travesty that is occurring around them while they sleep in broad daylight . The writing is on the wall for the UK now that Ireland has been hijacked.




How long before we wake up ?





posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 05:53 AM
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Ireland in many ways is a draconian state.

Boy you cannot do anything in peace, without people calling authorities. Perfect for the nwo.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 06:04 AM
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The IRA spent all that time fighting for there independence from UK and now they just gave it away how ironic you just can not make this stuff up.
It will not matter who is in power in government because they will no longer have power WE SHOULD HAVE A VOTE but that will not happen and if it did it would be rigged there is no democracy anymore it's just a word.

THANKYOU



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by mars1
 


Most ironic and saddening of all is that, should Tony Blair take up the unelected imaginary position of EU President, then once again Ireland will be under the rule of an English Prime Minister.

There is no hope for Wales it would seem but at least the Irish held their ground and fought off the oppressor of the people an inspiration to those that wish to remain free of EU bureaucracy and fascism.

I cannot help but be concerned that my own children may one day, have to risk their lives or liberty in order think and live freely, when so many have gone before them believing it was achieved.

I'm still dumbstruck that the Irish of all people, would allow this atrocity to happen to them.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


My folks are Irish, and my older brother and sister were born there before my parents moved to Australia. I have been there twice, the last time in 2000, when things were really great. Everyone was doing really well. Everyone had jobs. Now whenever I talk to my parents about Ireland( as my grandma is really old and is not doing well) I get an update on my cousins, out of work, EU subsidized companies that have let people go in thousands or have just folded, packed up and left. Huge numbers of migrant workers that flooded the job market when things were good.


ALL areas of the Irish construction sector are in decline, with a particularly steep reduction in civil engineering activity.

The Ulster Bank Construction Purchasing Managers’ Index data shows that job cuts have increased and that business is contracting at steeper rates than earlier in the year.



Housing activity decreased for the 35th consecutive month.

Despite registering the weakest decline of the three categories in September, commercial activity still fell at the steepest pace in four months.

"New business also fell in September, extending the current period of decline to 30 months. Anecdotal evidence suggested that clients remained cautious in committing to new projects given the fragility of the wider economic climate," the reports authors said.


Read more: www.examiner.ie...


Read more: www.examiner.ie...
How anyone could wave a vote card around with the word Jobs on it is beyond me.
For the YES campaign to run its agenda on a promise of Jobs was a blatant manipulation of the desperate situation Ireland sees itself in. With its own govt. unable to pull the country out, the Lisbon treaty vulture swooped.


Who is this bloke kidding;

"We as a nation have taken a decisive step for a stronger, fairer and better Ireland, and a stronger, fairer and better Europe," a relieved Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen told reporters after the results were announced on Saturday.
www.spiegel.de...


Great thread Moo. S and F.

P.S. I love that V speech. One of my favorite movies.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by mars1
 


Thats how the nwo works isn't, nobody gets what anyone wants, except them.

Ireland have had alot of help from eu, but is a very socialist state. You cannot fart over there if someone wants to report it.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by mars1
 

Ireland have had alot of help from eu, but is a very socialist state. You cannot fart over there if someone wants to report it.



Come on, Andy. That's not actually socialism. Big Brother and totalitarianism isn't the same as socialism per se.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 06:47 AM
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I'm concerned that there are people who think we live in a democracy now.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by mars1
The IRA spent all that time fighting for there independence from UK and now they just gave it away how ironic you just can not make this stuff up.


You know! I was thinking exactly the same a couple of days ago, and I was kind of baffled about this.

All those years of conflict and killings since 1922 with the secession of the Irish Free State for this?

Or maybe they prefer the Europeans instead of bowing for the English Lords, at least they can through and with the EU have better chances for the continuous work towards completely independence from the Brits - better for Ireland in the long run?

That is of course if an independent Northen Ireland completely free from the Brits could ever be considered a reality by the EU & the 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland' and the NWO - in the future?


If it was up to me, give Northen Ireland back to the Irish and let them join the rest of Ireland you damn Limeys! J/K




[edit on 12-10-2009 by Chevalerous]



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 07:02 AM
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This EU thing is just a joke the people will not get a say in anything if it was so good for us let us have are vote but NO they know what the answer would be that's why we will not get that chance.
But over time when people realise how bad it is under the EU well let the games begin.
It's like every week there is something new they want to do they are testing see how far they can push and someone will push back eventually.
Just like poking a wasps nest they will attack.

THANKYOU



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033
Ireland in many ways is a draconian state.

Boy you cannot do anything in peace, without people calling authorities. Perfect for the nwo.




What?

Thats one of the funniest things iv heard in a long time. Yes, our little country of 4 and a half million people (half of them drunks) is the breeding ground for the New World Order... Who woulda thunk it?



See the second vote for what it was... Im being realistic here.. I know impartial and realistic thinking may offend some people on this site but Im gonna do it anyway.

A country with 1% of the EU population had half of its electorate.. (so .25% approx of the EU population) vote against a "treaty" (Legal framework for the creation of a sovereign entity).

Almost every other member state's democratically elected government had ratified the "treaty"...

So it was being blocked by .25% of the population of the entire EU..

How is that democracy? Since when is a quarter of one percent a majority? No matter what you think about the EU or whatever, there's no point in being waaaaay overly sensationalist.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 07:17 AM
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reply to post by Dermo
 


You must have your eyes closed then, musn't you.

The nwo seem to use all countries for different things. Ireland is a country that has draconian laws, no matter what you think.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 07:23 AM
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I didn’t get a vote as I’m an Englishman who has made his home in Ireland. My wife and her father obviously did, and they exercised their “democratic” right.

My wife asked me why I hadn’t asked her which way she’d voted, and I replied that that was because I already knew. She laughed when I told her she’d voted Yes. This wasn’t a difficult answer as she’d already mentioned in passing that voting yes was the safest and easiest option. This, despite the fact that the booklet that came with the polling cards contained unintelligible sections of legalese designed to “inform” the layman when all it did was repel the desire – or need - to understand. I read one section out loud over breakfast and asked if she understood it (as I had not). The answer was no.

‘But you’re going to vote for it?’

‘Yup.’

And this from an intelligent person. Her father was of the same mind, and diplomatically did not answer when I pointed out that joining Europe was akin to relinquishing the freedom gained by the Irish people ninety years ago. My mentioning that a second vote was completely undemocratic, in that it happening is testament to the first being patently ignored because it did not achieve the “correct” outcome was also met with polite smiles. Can’t blame him, as it must be difficult to reply to something so totally obviously true that simply does not fit in with your own opinion.

So for my loved ones – and 65% of the population - it was easier to say yes rather than go for the uncertainty of saying no. They believed it when the government here said that Ireland needs Europe to get the country out of the current financial mess. Jobs, money, support etc. This from the same government that led the country into that mess in the first place. And Europe is going to support that government.

Where’s the logic in that?

A government that is now happily making the public sector; Garda, Defence Force, Firemen, Nurses, pay by hitting them twice for pay cuts; a government that is going to harvest funds from the Irish people in a December budget that is being suggested will be, and I quote, “savage”; a government that is at the centre of an expenses scandal centred around the Ceann Comhairle (equivalent of the Speaker of the House) being defended by the Taoiseach (as an aside, the Health Service Executive here is hugely underfunded, yet the Minister for health – Mary Harney – is part of this expenses scandal in that she spent 700,000 euro of taxpayer’s money using the Government’s private jet, and 65,000 on hotel bills all within the space of three years.)

Talk of major national strikes from all of the main trade unions is common news. My wife has voted for strike action if the public sector is hit again for the “pension levy”. Minor demonstrations are happening seemingly all of the time. Real anger can be felt amongst those whom the recession is hitting the hardest. The Irish are not ones to take this lying down.

Yet, the country votes for Europe to help this government out of the mess it got us in to?

Doesn’t make sense.

Even if – sorry, when - Brian Cowen and his bunch get kicked out at the next election, the next incumbents are the same old same old. What happens then? We’ll be so far in there will be no turning back.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by andy1033
 



You must have your eyes closed then, musn't you.

The nwo seem to use all countries for different things. Ireland is a country that has draconian laws, no matter what you think.


I’ve got my eyes open, and I like what I see in this country. I like the people, the way of life, the culture.

(And there is nothing wrong with laws and law abiding people. If you have a problem with the “draconian” Free State, perhaps I might offer an observation and a suggestion; maybe you’ re doing something to attract the attention of these “draconian” laws, and if you want to see real lock-down Draconia, try the UK.)

The Irish have the willingness to stand up and be counted when the need arises.

I do not understand why we (Ireland) bent over and accepted having to have another vote. We said no, and that should have been that.

The premise was that some minor amendments had been made to the Lisbon Treaty that we had objected to. Well, the question has to be asked; if Europe has our best interests at heart, why did they include clauses that they should have known would be rejected by Ireland in the first place?

Where they chancing their hand, hoping that we wouldn’t notice?



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by Beamish
 


Thanks for your post!


It's always nice to take part in someone else's perspectives and to have insights to the normal daily lives here in our european societies, especially as you are living there as an Englishman with an Irish wife.

Great post!



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by Beamish
 


Good post there pal could not agree more one political party will be changed for another but the power will not be there's Democracy it's just a word that dose not exist we just think it dose.

THANKYOU



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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It actually makes little difference, because when the SHTF in Europe, such agreements and treaties will vanish into the ether never to be seen again. There were plenty of agreements and treaties made between various nations before WW2, and it didn't take long before governments ripped them up under the pressure of their people or through solidarity, defence etc.

Trust me on this, if anything happens that the DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY of a member state doesn't approve of, there will be rioting in the streets and we'll force our government to tear up whatever it is we don't like.

And on the discussion about immigration and the like...
What you all read in the tabloid press about "foreigners" taking our jobs is BS until you see people actually fighting back.

We've had the threatening headlines for years in the UK, and yet, no one was actually protesting. If all these people are really losing their jobs to foreign workers, where are the unions? Why aren't they protesting outside their plants and factories?
Because it simply wasn't true. There were jobs for everyone willing to work, it was nothing more than sensationalist headlines.

It changed recently with one Oil company (I believe it was) with the company hiring in from Europe (for a different contract in the same plant that had no bearing on existing British employment no less!). And within days there were union protests and strikes, and even other locations joining in.

If things were that bad across the UK and Ireland, people would regularly be out in the picket lines just as they were throughout the 80's.

It's simply not happening.

Personally, I couldn't care less what our government agrees to because I'm powerless to change it (sad, but true, I'm not so naive). While it would be heavenly to move away from larger governance in every way, my opinion doesn't matter unless there is a vote.
But, when there are any laws dictating to me that I should change an aspect of my life or limit my freedoms (which I have not yet seen any evidence of) then I'll be the first in line to join a protest group.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by mars1
 


Most ironic and saddening of all is that, should Tony Blair take up the unelected imaginary position of EU President, then once again Ireland will be under the rule of an English Prime Minister.


Really? An English Prime Minister?

I should of course point out that Blair was actually born in Edinburgh and whilst it's likely his father, Leo, was born in England which would possibly give Blair some English ancestry, Leo himself grew-up in Glasgow. Aside from being born in Scotland, Blair spent a good chunk of his time growing up in Scotland and even Australia as well as England.

I wouldn't actually call Blair English by any means. Even if you were referring to the fact that he was the Prime Minister, he was actually the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (comprising of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland). It's ironic when people make comments about England somehow ruling the rest of the UK that details such as the fact that England is governed by various Scottish ministers (the last 2 Prime Ministers for a start) and the fact that for large chunks of history the English and/or the British throne was actually occupied by people who weren't born in England.

However, yet again, somehow the English are to blame!



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 





However, yet again, somehow the English are to blame!


Thanks for the wrist slap, I was trying to imply British from the perspective of the Irish, while trying to somewhat dissociate myself "welsh", not easy to put into words when technically I live in an occupied country.

Perhaps It would have been better to have used London as apposed to English. But there again, I've been led to believe that parts of London are more Islamic than English, how bloddy complicated is this going to get ?


I know, I'll rephrase what I said like this -

When Tony Blaire the english/scotsman (does this qualify him to play for Argentina?) takes up his unelected imaginary position as president of the EU, even though the UK sacked his warmongering lying arse. The Irish will once again be governed by the City of London via some euro quango, and will dig potatoes like they should.

This prompts another thought while I'm at it-
If there is truth in the allegation that the US allowed millions of dollars to be pumped into Irish cause will the support be reinstated under Obama, the US president who may or may not have been born in the USA and god knows where his father was born, but I heard he can play for France.



posted on Oct, 12 2009 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 



Personally, I couldn't care less what our government agrees to because I'm powerless to change it (sad, but true, I'm not so naive).


Ireland introduced referenda to limit the powers of its politicians inside the structure of the Constitution. This allows the TD’s to act freely within that framework, but be limited by the opinion of the people. I marched in Dublin this year amongst over 100,000 people against the public sector pay cuts. The march was entirely peaceful, good humoured (as is typical for the Irish) and well supported by the Dublin populace.

It did no good whatsoever.

The government did not listen, as they had made their minds up forgetting that they are accountable to the people.

Ireland said no to the Lisbon Treaty as it had clauses that seemed could impact on moral issues and its neutrality. The Irish had their say. End of story. No thanks, don’t want that.

So, what happened? Europe “re-wrote” those clauses, seemingly to the satisfaction of the politicians, and re-presented it. This time, amidst an incredibly expensive advertising pro-campaign (and this in the middle of a “RECCESION”), the vote went the way it would have gone originally, had we not noticed the little “flaws”.

And what about those clauses now they’re “fixed”?

There’s strong indication that in the eyes of the European Courts of Justice, international laws written outside of European treaties will be subject to – if questioned or challenged - interpretation by the ECJ, as the autonomy of the Community laws cannot be contested.

In other words, European law supersedes all others. Ever heard of a get out clause? And there’s nothing that can be done about that one.

So when you say:


But, when there are any laws dictating to me that I should change an aspect of my life or limit my freedoms (which I have not yet seen any evidence of) then I'll be the first in line to join a protest group.


it might not do you any good.



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