Michel Moore gets destroyed in a debate about capitalism

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by SpacePunk

 

NEWS FLASH: Capitalism allowed Michael Moore to earn $25M dollars! DOH!

If the country were Socialist, which this idiot is seen advocating, he wouldn't be permitted to make the kind of money he has made. So, what we have here is called HYPOCRISY. Yes, Michael Moore is a hypocrite - oh, and a moron!

Michael Moore never said anything about Socialism. You made that inference all by yourself. If you were a little smarter, you'd realize that we don't actually live in a Capitalistic society anyway. We are closer to Fascism than anything. And do me a favor before you respond...look up the term Fascism on dictionary.com and then make your comparisons to our current state of government. The fact that you called Michael Moore a moron shows that you have left critical thought behind and are stuck to your archaic partisan views.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry


Michael Moore never said anything about Socialism. You made that inference all by yourself. If you were a little smarter, you'd realize that we don't actually live in a Capitalistic society anyway. We are closer to Fascism than anything. And do me a favor before you respond...look up the term Fascism on dictionary.com and then make your comparisons to our current state of government. The fact that you called Michael Moore a moron shows that you have left critical thought behind and are stuck to your archaic partisan views.

It's so true. The amount of people who use terms like fascism and socialism on this site and don't know the meaning is staggering.

All I want to know is this:

Did Moore pay his directors, editors, gaffers, grips, ect. a simple wage or did he allow them to take partial ownership of this movie that their work contributed towards?

Because if the people who worked on this movie are not equity shareholders in the final film, then Micheal Moore is completely full of poo.

Jon

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 10/10/2009 by Mirthful Me]

Just watched the vid. Can you direct me too the time where he is destroyed?

Seem like a good discussion to me and that everybody was on the same page.

WTF?

"Give up your money"

I normally do not watch Hannity, but this exchange with Moore was quite interesting and revealing.

How can one who has benefited so much from a capitalist system effectively trash that system?



Please watch the whole exchange, especially where Moore is asked to put his money where his mouth is...

Hypocrisy pays great rewards to a media whore like Moore, and Hannity!

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Walkswithfish]

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry

Michael Moore never said anything about Socialism.

If you watch the video, the student said, "So, we should embrace socialism." and Moore nodded in the 'yes' gesture. More wants the government to act in a dictatorship manner to control free enterprise.

As the observant student has noticed, Moore was trying to kill of capitalism in general. Instead of holding CEOs responsible for their actions, Moore wants Obama to put them into government control. Since it was the government under President Clinton, whom was responsible for removing laws put into place during the Depression, it is government who helped cause the problem in the first place. Why should we trust them with Nationalized Healthcare?

Hypothetical Thinking#1 Here::
Lets pretend for a moment that healthcare does become mandated and nationalized. Everyone is put into the system nice and snug. Our taxes go up to adjust for economic changes, so your current pay check goes down every so often. Correct so far. Suddenly you have no money to pay for food, shelter, and water. Even though everyone is healthy, no one can afford anything else except for limited necessities. How does that help?

Here is something no one ever talks about. How far will the government and corporations go? At this point in time, the government cannot make any laws that dictate our lives. Once we are all put into a mandated healthcare system, what will stop corporations and the government from making laws such as:

(1) You cannot weigh X amount of pounds for your height.
(2) You cannot eat certain foods such as bacon, cheeseburgers, pizza, or anything else you currently desire.
(3) You cannot stay awake after certain hours.
(4) You must exercise so many hours per day.

Mandated healthcare systems will put the government and corporations into direct control of your lives. How will they take full control? Easy. If they want to force everyone to do something, all they have to do is signal for a health emergency. They can pass new criteria within a committee setting, which works outside of the law. All they have to do is say its for the health and well being of society. Suddenly you are owned, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Hypothetical thinking #2 Here::
Lets say you graduated from college. Over a period of time and effort, you become a every experienced individual. Your pay rate goes up. You work hard for the next few years, and your pay rate goes even higher. Suddenly the government walks in and takes (through taxes) a substantial amount of your rewards for experience and gives it to someone else. Instead of being allowed to freely allocate your hard work and efforts, the government will dictate exactly how much you deserve. They look at your accounts, house, and items. What will stop them from taking your stuff, and then give it to someone else? Its call the redistribution of wealth.

Michael Moore doesn't know what he is talking about. Free enterprise is a historical success. What we are missing is holding those who committed fraud responsible. Moore wants to take freewill away.

Keep your eye on the Means & Weighs bill. It has another $10 trillion in deficit spending, and it also has many-many mandates on the average citizen.

When you sit down to watch "Capitalism", keep in mind capitalism will make his movie a success or failure. He is using the system he despises to make a profit.

People who want capitalism to fail are individuals who do not want to be held responsible for their own choices.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Pathos]

It isn't capitalism or or a free economy when only a few companies are in control. Think it is a free market? Go ahead, try to open a dime store next to wal mart.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


You make a very good point.Basically corporations are going back to the Carnegie and Mellon style of profit. You keep people in poverty to rake in the dough.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
It isn't capitalism or or a free economy when only a few companies are in control. Think it is a free market? Go ahead, try to open a dime store next to wal mart.

Okay. What should we do then? Communism (socialism)? Dictate to others what they can and cannot do? Where does it end?

Originally posted by nixie_nox
Basically corporations are going back to the Carnegie and Mellon style of profit. You keep people in poverty to rake in the dough.

How would the destruction of the capitalist system bring people out of poverty?

It is the capitalist system, and incentives for profit that build businesses, thus provide jobs and opportunity for the people.

What the destruction of the capitalist system, and socialist conversion will bring is greater dependence on government, less opportunity and fewer jobs.

See you in the 5 hour long government run lines of the future where we will all be compliant happy socialists waiting for our weekly rations of government generosity.

reply to post by nixie_nox


"try opening a dime store next to walmart"
exactly!

missvicky & nixie_nox,
Do you guys want people to tell others how to live their lives? Or, do you guys want to live in a free world?

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Wimbly


WOW!! So you would have a problem with socalised healthcare, but you don't mind your tax money being used to kill Afghans. Who's being the hypocrite now? Moore is right, and I don't see where he gets destroyed, he says how the system is failing and how it should actually be instead.

Certain systems controlled by the govt. work well like a national health system, student loans/grants.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by john124]

reply to post by john124

At what expense though. If we were to put everything under government control, like Moore has suggested, that would give the government too much power.

What do you suggest?

Do we take away everyone's freedoms, so that another group can have more of something?

Do you guys want a dictatorship running America?

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Pathos]

I do not understand where everyone is going. In order to give everyone healthcare, the way Moore and Obama have suggested, we would have to become a dictatorship. Everything that belongs to us physically becomes the ownership of government and corporations.

Is that what people want?

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Pathos]

I am not sure if those who want Nationalized Healthcare understand their own position. Everyone will be mandated to give up their physical freedom, so that everyone can obtain health insurance. Technically, people are surrendering their freewill.

Once a nationalized health insurance is mandated, you will loose the choices that you take for granted everyday. Your physical body becomes the property of the United States government and/or a corporation.

National Healthcare Mandate = Physical Ownership over people.

This in not just a question about taxes, but a question about individual freedom.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Wimbly


First of all, to the people complaining that Michael Moore is worth 25 mil, I hope he is and continues to be worth more. You know why? Because that means people are actually watching and paying to see his movies, and God forbid, THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY SEE HOW THIS WORLD REALLY IS. Not what CNN and Fox show us. That's what the media wants you to think the world is like.

Next, I can see there are a lot of Repulicans on this thread. How many of you guys have gone to college, and had to get loans to get through? Or let me guess, your mommy and daddy paid for you to go. And you got to be in your little sorority or fraternity and drink beer all day while your parents covered everything. EASY FOR YOU! Me and my girlfriend just recently graduated from college and it's been a B*TCH to find work. I graduated with about 20k in loans, and my gf got about 26k in loans. So i'll be fun paying that all off for the next 5 years. That's if we can find jobs. I mean there are people out there with Phd's working at outlet clothing stores to make a living. I've also heard many cases lately where people with master degrees and higher are having an even worse time find work because they're being told they're OVER QUALIFIED. This to me says that American employers would rather have less educated people because they can pay them less to work. What the hell happened to having qualified, educated people working for what they deserve?

Back to Michael Moore. I think this man is just trying to tell people how it really is and how the American Dream works. You go to school for 20 years, you get out and get a low paying job to pay off the loans you had to get to go to school to be able to get out and get a high paying job,,, which you didn't because the economy is f*cked... I've seen a lot of his other films and not everything is completely true in them. But at least they get people to think and not just be robots in their everyday, boring lives. More power to Moore!

Oh yeah, and exactly where does Mr. Moore get "destroyed" in this debate? Because,, it looks to me like the student asks a question and Moore answers. Maybe I missed the destroyed part?? Or maybe it didn't happen.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by DangrousDave20]

reply to post by Pathos


I thought it was a public healthcare "option"? Option meaning,,,you have a CHOICE. How many times has Obama said "You will not be required to change from your existing healthcare plan if you don't want to".

Originally posted by DangrousDave20
First of all, to the people complaining that Michael Moore is worth 25 mil, I hope he is and continues to be worth more. You know why? Because that means people are actually watching and paying to see his movies, and God forbid, THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY SEE HOW THIS WORLD REALLY IS. Not what CNN and Fox show us. That's what the media wants you to think the world is like.

When you watch Michael Moore's movies, you get an interpretation of the world through his eyes. Its his interpretation of capitalism and society. Its not real.

Originally posted by DangrousDave20
Next, I can see there are a lot of Repulicans on this thread. How many of you guys have gone to college, and had to get loans to get through?

I owe $35,000 though college loans. Since it was my choice to go to college, I take full responsibility for the bill that follows. It was my choice. Its my responsibility.

I am a Libertarian (Constitutionalists). Do you know what that means?

Originally posted by DangrousDave20
reply to post by Pathos

 

I thought it was a public healthcare "option"? Option meaning,,,you have a CHOICE. How many times has Obama said "You will not be required to change from your existing healthcare plan if you don't want to".

When he said public healthcare option, he was talking about a government run system that will compete with corporations. Even though you get to choice what health insurance you want, you will loose the freedom to 'not' choice a health insurance company. Within the meat of the original bills, there is nothing that would have prevented companies from dumping you into the government runned system.

All the bills are a mandate put onto the citizens. Even though you might not want a healthcare provider, they will force you to take one.

Technically, you will become the property of a government runned system, or you will become the property of a corporation. Its lose - lose. Someone will own you. Since a committee (made up of government officials and corporations) will oversee the whole system, it almost enviable that you will be owned by both systems.

After you are forced onto this system, the sky is the limite on the types of mandates that can make. None of these bills have laws that would protect individual freedoms.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by Pathos


Well wouldn't it be nice if education was a norm and not a luxury like it is here in the U.S.? If it works in countries like France why wouldn't work here?