Michel Moore gets destroyed in a debate about capitalism

I don't really get why we are critisizing Michael Moore so much. At least he gets people to think about the system. He said once in an interview I saw on TV that the gorvernment is supposed to be for the people, for our own good, and that we should be controlling what happens. Is that not true?

He may do a lot of slimey things, but people need to take what they take and if they try they can still learn something from him.

reply to post by Wimbly


Michael Moore is a hypocrite, not one of my favorite directors. Havent watched this installment in his saga, and dont plan to.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by orderedchaos

 

We are all hypocrite capitalists. I have a small business myself, I am capitalist, I recognize that there is a point where capitalism breaks down, and becomes a system as abusive as communism. When a company gets so large that it cannot be allowed to fail, that company has gotten too large, and should be broken up. As it is, the United States, and probably the whole world, is being held hostage by obscenely large corporate interests that serve nobody but the corporate executives. That is not capitalism, it is feudalism in a thin veneer that is sold as capitalism.

Too large too fail? Sounds like the U.S. Government, not a private corporate interest. Businesses cannot tax. The U.S. Government can.

Originally posted by Bananarama
I don't really get why we are critisizing Michael Moore so much. At least he gets people to think about the system. He said once in an interview I saw on TV that the gorvernment is supposed to be for the people, for our own good, and that we should be controlling what happens. Is that not true?

He may do a lot of slimey things, but people need to take what they take and if they try they can still learn something from him.

An advert with a doctor throwing a big fat bloody lump of lung cancer in the camera and screaming about how it will kill you, does not stop people smoking. It makes non-smokers go "HELL YEAH!" but all the smokers light up thinking "Damn I could do with a ciggy now."

People need to look at facts, not rampant hooligans yelling crap at them.

Moore is a tool. Jones is a tool. I don't want to carry that toolbox.

reply to post by anyjerk


I like what you had to say, but waiting on healthcare is not an option for the sick, dying or my children.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
reply to post by anyjerk

 

You seem impressionable enough to see the proper ways BUT you will have to realize the United States
Constitutional way has been hijacked
by the ousted communists that raped Germany and Russia.
They have fled here and to other powerful countries from those countries with an ax to grind against the entire world.
They are Zionists.
Home base Israel.
Check the history and the path. It's a no brainer.
They have enough nuclear power to destroy or blackmail the world. Marxism is the key to understand the phenomenon.
MM is just a media freak controlled by those I speak of.

Maybe I'm missing something but, when did communists "rape" Germany?

reply to post by Wimbly


DID I miss the destroying???

IS there a part 2 or something?

The history of man is replete with infectious greed and the quest for more power. Without a firm moral and ethical roadway for the men and women who are the lions of our social fabric, the decay of capitalism and/or democracy leads to a vacuum to be filled by a despot.

Now that we are trying to rid ourselves of our Great Overseer, God, how shall we construct that firm roadway for the future generations to follow?

Wouldn't it be prudent to maintain this important firm foundation, with common sense, for a base used to train future leaders? Or shall we ignore so great an example and historical account of the errors of our forebears, and plod blindly into the unknown?

Pick your path.

Originally posted by andy1033
too right, we have too many of those in truth movement since william coopers demise.

I really, really, really, really, really wish Cooper was still alive.

I miss his wisdom...we need it now like we've never neeeded it before.

Rest in peace, truth-teller... *sniff sniff*

Originally posted by really

Maybe I'm missing something but, when did communists "rape" Germany?

Read this:
THE FORGOTTEN VICTIMS OF WWII:
MASCULINITIES AND RAPE IN BERLIN, 1945
By James W. Messerschmidt, University of Southern Maine

Link:

usm.maine.edu...

A Woman in Berlin is the diary of a woman (Anonymous, 2005) who recounts the latter mass rape in the final and decisive city of the Soviet campaign—Berlin.... it is estimated that some 130,000 (because so many girls and women suffered repeated and gang rapes, the actual number is ostensibly higher) Berlin girls and women were brutally raped by Soviet soldiers—ten percent of the rape victims having committed suicide.

...Red Army soldiers were careful “to find the most attractive” women to rape and often: "German women developed informal agreements with a particular soldier or officer, who would protect them from other rapists and feed them in return for sexual compliance..."

More at source (see above). And this is just about the city of Berlin, never mind the rest of the country.

I have no desire to defend Nazi actions in war, but it also must be remembered the Russians were very brutal on women when they had their chance. Nobody in that scenario had clean hands; it was a tragedy all around...especially for women and children of all nations involved, as is always the case in all war down through history.

[edit on 10/10/09 by silent thunder]

reply to post by silent thunder


I know that many German women were raped at the end of WWII and I wouldn't joke about that. If I'm correct, he meant that Germany the country was raped (metaphorically) by the Communists the same way Russia was.
I was not referring to the actual rape of the German women at that time.

Unpatriotic Moore.

Socialism is just the softcore version of Communism but it's still Communism. The Communism that the US has fought so hard against. Don't tell me that all those deaths were for nothing.

As for hating Capitalism... Or should I say Corporationism (same difference). Without those corporations who are giving employees jobs where does he think people will get their money? It's plain nuts. Ok. So the corporations are government backed. If so, then make the people in government "unback" the corporations instead of converting to Russia or any of those transition to Commie states.

EDIT to add something below

If this was the 60s, that Moore would have been picked up the G-men already.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Unregistered]

Originally posted by SpacePunk
So, he's worth 25 million.... so what? He earned that, and more power to him. It's not like he got a 25 million bonus for running a company into the ground. 25 million is small beans in todays world. He provides a product, and people have a choice if they see that product or not.

Indeed. Such is the beauty of capitalism.
Choice, freedom, etc...
But watching Michael Moore rant about the evils of capitalism is like watching a fat man rant about the evils of fast food, while simultaneously eating 3 bigmacs.

If Michael Moore believes it's wrong that a small percentage of Americans hold so much wealth, then he can be the first to redistribute his own wealth.

Originally posted by metro
You American's are so scared of the word Socialism. Most of you probably have no idea what it is or how it works only that the media has turned it into a curse word.

Quite sad really. The rest of the world is evolving and providing healthcare and education to their citizens but in America how dare they take your precious tax dollars. lol. A country filled with selfish self-interested bumpkins.

Enjoy the fall.

as an American, I have to say metro........you're right, and I could not agree more.

I must have missed the part where he got "destroyed." In fact, I didn't even see any debate. I saw a guy ask him a question, and frankly, I liked what Moore had to say in response. Despite not being quite in line with my own beliefs, it actually made me think. That is far more than I can say for the majority of people on ATS. I haven't seen any of Moore's films, but what he said in the video was quite thought provoking.

Why does France have free college, and we don't? Why do we pay high taxes, yet nothing ever gets done for us by the people we're paying? Why do CEOs make 500 times more money than the employees that actually make their businesses run? Why is our system set up so that college is a tool to put students in debt instead of putting them in decent careers? You might not like Moore's proposed solutions to anything, but you can't deny he pointed out several serious flaws with this drain-circling country of ours.

I did like his idea that employees should have a say in how the company they work for is run. Some companies offer stock purchase plans as benefits, I think that such a thing should be mandatory for businesses that reach a certain size.

He himself is a hypocrite capitalist. A transparent one at that.

_____________________________________________________________

I don't think that's a fair statement. You are calling him a hypocrite for being successful in the only system we have. If there was choice of systems and he chose the capitalist system while dispariging it you would be correct in calling him a hypocrite.

I have heard that the movie is more complex than "Michael Moore says Capitalism is bad." That's why he called it a "love story." He describes the kind of capitalism the US had back in the 1950s, his own childhood with a lower-middle-class dad in industry who nevertheless managed to provide for his family, save money, and not have to live in constant fear of being a paycheck away from homelessness or going broke paying for an underwater loan on a bad investment property. That was capitalism too. This, he said, is why he he added the "love story" part...he really did love that type of capitalism, and his message is that is what we should be getting back to.

Moore than contrasts that to the hypercapitalism that has since gutted our economy, crushed a once-robust middle class, sent manufacting overseas, destroyed commuties, un-leveled playinfields, rolled like a tank over generations of careful laws, and turned the government into a posse of crooks.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Wimbly

 

Michael Moore loves that word "Democracy"

He's so blind that he doesn't even know what the American form of Government really is.

I don't think he was "destroyed" but he showed is "democrazy" side.

He couldn't answer the question properly so he went off on a long rant that had little to do with the question.

Yeah!
I mean how stupid must you be to mix up greek and latin?
Or realize that the US is the only country in the world where "representative democracy" is known as "republic", while the rest of the world uses "republic" to describe a country that isn't ruled by a king, and just says "democracy" when they mean "representative democracy", since it's almost always the representative kind anyways (Except for Appenzell in Switzerland).

Sorry, but saying "US isnt a democracy, its a republic" is like saying "This isnt cheese, this is fromage"

Originally posted by mattifikation


Why does France have free college, and we don't? Why do we pay high taxes, yet nothing ever gets done for us by the people we're paying? Why do CEOs make 500 times more money than the employees that actually make their businesses run? Why is our system set up so that college is a tool to put students in debt instead of putting them in decent careers? You might not like Moore's proposed solutions to anything, but you can't deny he pointed out several serious flaws with this drain-circling country of ours.

The true Question is why your Federal reserve have 50 to 60% of your national debt? and why they try to male you belive that is the china who have 50 % of your debt...

Ps

France and most european country have indeed free school and university but it won t be long before all of this desapear (it s already a mess in fact)... In fact we have the same probleme of America but on a reverse state.

Originally posted by Unregistered
Unpatriotic Moore.

Socialism is just the softcore version of Communism but it's still Communism. The Communism that the US has fought so hard against. Don't tell me that all those deaths were for nothing.

As for hating Capitalism... Or should I say Corporationism (same difference). Without those corporations who are giving employees jobs where does he think people will get their money? It's plain nuts. Ok. So the corporations are government backed. If so, then make the people in government "unback" the corporations instead of converting to Russia or any of those transition to Commie states.

EDIT to add something below

If this was the 60s, that Moore would have been picked up the G-men already.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Unregistered]

Oh yes...America fought so hard against Communism (which has NOTHING TO DO WITH SOCIALISM) that we're borrowing Communist currency to stay afloat. And by the way, just because communism and socialism both have isms at the end of the words does not make them similar. I think you really need to do some studying.