Factions of a Broken America, whose side you on?

reply to post by dooper


Interesting times, indeed.

I would go with #2, although as a Southern gal, I can agree that 2,3, and 4 could possibly merge. Things will never be as they were. Our children will be a lot leaner, and tougher - with luck, wiser. Let's just hope that China doesn't call the loans. We may be seeing goose-stepping Chinese soldiers in our streets.

reply to post by Lolliek


no doubt. if america breaks i have no doubt there will be international troops in our streets. more than likely chinese and EU. it will add a whole diff dynamic to the conflict.

reply to post by Lolliek

Chinese troops won't be goosestepping in our streets. They'll be much too busy bleeding out.

They look good in parades, but there are almost zero combat experienced troops. Here in the States, even in our civilian populations, we have hundreds of thousands of hard-asses with combat experience.

Europeans can barely meet symbolic NATO requirements. They won't be sending but token forces, who will likewise have a short and glorious death.

The world thinks the Afghans are badasses. Just wait until they meet/see American guerrillas.

Fighting on their own land.

And regardless of different regional coalitions, like brothers who may scrap with each other, they'll drop their differences in a skinny minute to combine and jump any outsider.

Hey.

It's the American way.

reply to post by dooper


Didn't China lose something like 25,000 KIA in ONE MONTH during their incursion into Vietnam?

No wonder they tucked tail and ran home.

I can only imagine how many carcasses they'd leave rotting in the sun during a US invasion. I'm gonna buy another shovel. I might need two.

A few years back, I was talking to a Navy guy who said in his opinion, a Chinese invasion of the US would be impossible, since he estimated they didn't have the Naval power projection ability to land any sizeable ground forces here.

Maybe they can thumb a ride with the Russians.

reply to post by nenothtu

Yes!

What impressed me was that against the NVA, we didn't lose a single battle. Don't get me wrong - they were TOUGH!

But that didn't stop us from defeating them in battle.

So the Chinese pour across the border to teach them a lesson, and got their asses kicked right back across the border.

THIS is a prime example of the benefit of combat hardened troops.

That's why the threat of a Chinese invasion doesn't concern me in the least.

They don't have the transport, nor the Navy to protect that transport. It's a long way from here to China, and our Navy would have their own turkey shoot.

And if any did make it to the US shores, they'd get a mighty warm welcome. Likely - no prisoners.

Russia? Same thing. They're in no shape to invade! Another large landbased military by tradition. Oh, they tried to match us navy-wise in the decades during the Cold War, but they always fell far short.

Europe? Yeah. I'm about to wet myself trembling from the thought of French troops.

I don't think the Franks have won a single conflict since taking over France. Hell, even Italy beat them.

All we'd have to do is dress up as the Wehrmacht. They'd drop those weapons faster than you could collect them.

I don't see any real difference between #2, the constitutionalists and #3, the southern separatists. I think they would merge early on, if they ever were separate.

#4, the Texas separatists, would probably at the very least ally themselves with the constitutional/southern faction, and more likely an outright merger once they saw those folks were serious.

#5, the California separatists, would be swallowed whole by the Aztlaners, at least in southern Cali. They, the US southwest, and northwest Mexico would probably eventually merge into a new nation, more than likely controlled by the Aztlan/drug cartel faction. Mexico couldn't annex them. Hell, Mexico can't annex them NOW, while the cartel area is nominally under Mexican control! If the current California economy is any indicator, the new nation will be barely able to stand. Luckily for me, that ain't gonna be my problem at all.

#8a and #8c, Cascadia and Jefferson, can probably make a go of it. I'd imagine they'll be sort of pissed off and stand-offish with the rest of us.

That brings us to #9, the mercenary faction. These men are, after all, still Americans. I harbor serious doubts as to them accepting pay from the feds to pacify areas they have no interest in, while their own homes burn to the ground and their own families die. They'll melt into the other factions, each to his own area.

The leftist militias will be operable for the most part in the northeast. Maryland and New Jersey will find themselves all but surrounded and cutoff. And thanks to their current governments, nearly disarmed. An unenviable position.

Similarly, New Hampshire and Vermont will find themselves surrounded by hostiles, but THEY will be armed, and likely in some sort of alliance with the constitutionalists.

Most of the other mini-militias, the "Christian fundamentalists", the KKKers, neo-nazis, and suchlike, will be all but erased. Nobody wants crazy folks in the trenches beside them, and they simply haven't got the numbers to sustain themselves in this sort of scenario. They'll be dealt with early on, just like the urban gangstas in the Constitutionalist/Cascadia/Jefferson areas. Same reason. Nobody wants crazy folks in the trenches beside them. Not a good survival strategy to place yourself in a position to be forced to watch your back AND your front.

That's a short synopsis of my 2 cents worth. There's more, but if I lay out the whole thing, it's gonna cost ya a nickel!

reply to post by nenothtu

Well spoken, and I think you have a pretty good grasp of how it would play out.

Many of these smaller, more fanatical separatist factions as you mentioned - skinheads, kkk, black muslim radicals, and others would be dealt with rather harshly.

They would be a danger to everyone.

I think it would be curious how many of the midwestern states would likely trail. Aside from the former Confederate States, I can see Missouri, West Virginia, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Kansas, North and South Dakota, Arizona, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, Utah, rural Pennsylvania, and possibly southern Ohio joining together.

I think the municipal areas that now plague most of the Northern States would be quickly depopulated, and many of them MAY eventually come around, just for survival.

After all, it's the liberal infested large cities in many states that have swayed the votes in those states disproportionally.

And the good thing about liberals and city dwellers - once things go tits up, they tend to drop faster than burdschitt in a downdraft.

Which swings common sense back into the equation.

I can see no more than three factions, likely consolidating into two after a period of time.

And who gives a **** about Southern California. They are their own disaster. Oh. And Massachusetts and New Jersey.

Reply to post by TheCoffinman

My own. Because it seems to me the higher the population of a group the lower the IQ. And all this factional BS EVER does is spawn NEEDLESS conflict. Which is why so called "leaders" and their parrots ENCOURAGE IT. A group with a percieved enemy is easier to cotrol. The Cold War is an excellent example of that. Want to change the world for the better? Become an individaul and ALLOW OTHERS to do the same. WITHOUT expecting others to live by YOUR ruler.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by TwilightMage
As much as I love Anarchy for allowing me to blow stuff up and NOT have the bacon-makin' popo come after me, I'd have to side with the Constitutionalist Militias. Mainly because I hate the 'Controlled-by-banks-and-not-so-free-America'.

Either that, or I would go for the Mercs. XD

Me too, evil bastards, we.

I like your beard my man.

Anyway #2 for me as well. But I certainly hope it doesn't come to it. We're alot further than we were during the civil war and we've had alot more stuff going on to unite us.

9/11 showed how easily we forget our divisive politics and come together. I would hope if they tried pitting us against one another, we'd both realize it, and both sides would slow down, reconsider.

Oh hell what am I saying? There are multiple sides and as humans, we never slow down when killing is still to be done.

reply to post by TheCoffinman


Nice try but I don't think that it is so easily defined and stereotyped. Especially in the former Confederate/Southeastern states, what happened in 1861 is not going to happen again. If there ever were to be some form of secession, it wouldn't be a rerun of the former CSA.

As it is right now, I see far more discontent and a pronounced racial divisions in those states of the so-called 'Rust Belt' than anywhere in the South.

But for the sake of argument, if there were to be a run at secession again, Texas and California would, separately and individually, do far better than any grouping of states elsewhere. Even a collection of Southern or Northern states would be hard pressed to survive even in the short term. There are just not enough resources, natural and otherwise, to allow independence.

As for places like Florida, a rise in sea level would be the best alternative to statehood. The population is so ethnically and economically divided that without a strong central government, it would quickly reduce itself to anarchy and dozens of petty, feudal groupings.

The quality of life we know here in the US, even in dark economic times, far surpasses anything we could hope for on our own with secession.

3. The Confederate States of America movement is alive and well. Click here to get contact and meeting information and applications for joining CSA in your state.

Confederate States of American Web Page
Here's the Main Introduction. Makes you want to rally doesn't it?

Welcome to the official website of the Government of the Confederate States of America established in 1861. Though we are an occupied nation, our culture, our customs, our heritage and most importantly, our Constitution, are alive and unconquered awaiting the day when freedom loving Americans awaken to once again take up the banner of truth and regain our sovereignty.

[edit on 9-10-2009 by gazerstar]

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Whichever side promises to leave me alone.

Choosing any one of these 'sides' just gets you right back to where you started.

I'm not picking up a gun for anybody but myself and I don't have any delusions about shaping the world for some god whether it's a supernatural manifestation or something tangible like a dollar.

BINGO.

Sound money. Small government. Leave me alone.

Let's remember Abraham Lincoln wasn't a strong candidate for the Republicans. It was only after the Harper's Ferry incident that tore apart the Democrats that Lincoln seized more votes and eventually won the presidency.

My point is, I don't think it will be any particular group as much as it will be an individual that will rally the country and be the catalyst for change.

We need another John Brown.


Perhaps one will rise from a rebellion that will transform the nation.

I can only hope and pray I live to see it.

reply to post by dooper


understand the tactics the chinese use, much like the russians, they just send human waves at you until you capitulate.. they have more than enough bodies to do so..

reply to post by TheCoffinman


I'll have to disagree.

China would not be able to ship them fast enough. It wouldn't take much of a navy to pick them off before they ever reach our shores. Between subs, cruise missiles, anti-ship missiles, and yes, even nukes, it won't be much of an invasion after they got past our navy.

Then if we had any aircraft at all, even from our shores, they'd have to run that gauntlet.

THEN, they'd have to resupply and maintain them.

An invasion of America? You'd have layers upon layers of combat experienced military, ex-military, and cowboys lining up to pop a few.

No one has that many ships.

reply to post by dooper


Yeah. It would be pretty bad. America still hasn't had a bloodier war than when we fought each other.. And back than they had much slower weapons.

Now we have a culture of violence greater than then as well. Hopefully all the gang members are the first to go.

I'd have a hard choice between the Constitutionalists and the Southerners. Considering I LIVE in the South if the South wouldn't support (most) of the nation staying together just re-thinking some stuff and re-writing some laws... I would have to go with the confederates.

There is a very strong "Us vs. Them" mentality down here. Still haven't forgiven all the burning they did to us.
The common man... didn't gave a care about the slaves. Why should he? My family was just one step above slavery ourselves - sharecroppers.
We fought to get the fed's nose out of our business and to try and stop all the tarrifs.

As for Texas and California... well, I'm alright with Texas but California might just HAVE to become an independent country...
no one else would want them.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by sisgood]

reply to post by sisgood

Sis, I don't think you'd ever have to make a choice. It so happens that most of those southern states were also the Constitutionalists of their day, and really, not much has changed.

It was Lincoln who assumed dictatorial powers, and then the leftover Congress passed Amendments they were Constitutionally unauthorized to do.

The South has been occupied territory.

And of all regions, the South wants their Constitution back - not that abomination we currently have.

reply to post by dooper


Thanks for that.

Yay! I can be both! lol

Seriously, I think things will have to get a lot worse before talk of dissolving the nation becomes more than just talk. We'll just have to see what happens.

reply to post by sisgood

I would agree that things will have to get a lot worse.

Unfortunately, every day they get much worse.

Shouldn't be too long now!

And God help us.