DHS strips Arizona sheriff of authority to patrol for illegal immigrants

arpaios Reign Of Terror - great video!!

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by xunearthhxcx
arpaios Reign Of Terror - great video!!

www.youtube.com...

What does that have to do with the DHS modifying the 287g immigration enforcement program?

I know Arpaios is controversial and I certainly do not support some of the things he's been accused of but he's just being used by the Obama administration. They stripped all local sheriffs of the same authority without any reason, the allegations against Arpaios are just being used to divert attention away from the real scope of the incident and also as a warning to other Sheriffs to go along quietly.

The pro-illegal immigration lobby uses accusations of racism and racial profiling to advance their cause, not because there is a valid problem or because they even really care.

Any illegal immigrant caught by law enforcement can and often do make claims of racism / racial profiling so the DHS can paint any Sheriff's department with that same accusation if they try to fight the change.

People should know better, especially people on ATS than to accept the media version of a story. When the story is related to a hot button issue like this there will always be more to it than you're being told. They are using Maricopa County to manipulate the public, please try not to be so gullible.

Originally posted by ecoparity
. . . he's just being used by the Obama administration. They stripped all local sheriffs of the same authority without any reason, the allegations against Arpaios are just being used to divert attention away from the real scope of the incident and also as a warning to other Sheriffs to go along quietly.

Since you insist on making this about politics.

Under the Bush administration: Power was given that never should have.

Under Obama: it is being returned to ICE - as it should be.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ecoparity
. . . he's just being used by the Obama administration. They stripped all local sheriffs of the same authority without any reason, the allegations against Arpaios are just being used to divert attention away from the real scope of the incident and also as a warning to other Sheriffs to go along quietly.

Since you insist on making this about politics.

Under the Bush administration: Power was given that never should have.

Under Obama: it is being returned to ICE - as it should be.

That's your opinion.

The reason the 287g program was started was because the Immigration lobbyists, headed up by the government of Mexico were able to pay off congress and local politicians to set policies where local law enforcement was not able to arrest illegal aliens.

This created "sanctuary cities" where illegals were able to commit crimes without worry of being deported for them because the police were not allowed to even ask about their immigration status.

Once again, Sheriffs under our constitution are allowed to decide what state and federal laws they will enforce or not enforce. This is a check and balance against exactly the kind of lobbying I just mentioned as well as protecting citizens against a Federal government which has fallen into tyranny.

Like it or not the establishment of the 287g program under the Bush administration actually re-balanced an unconstitutional set of policies. What the DHS is doing now is against the constitution and being handled in an underhanded, under the table manner.

I keep providing you with documentation and resources and you just keep coming back with your unsupported opinion. I've even tried to show you how enabling illegal immigration actually does more damage to everyone including the immigrants.

Believe it or not I'm not taking the "anti-immigrant" position on things, I've been very balanced. Most of the right wing just wants them all thrown out of the country, I want our government to push the home countries to enact social changes so these people can have a decent life and not have to commit a felony, risk their lives crossing the border and divide families.

I'm not the one being "political", you are. You're one of those people who will support Obama regardless of what his administration really does. Despite being a conservative, I never supported Bush and do not define my views according to politics, ever.

I don't mind discussion and debate but you're just being ridiculous to the point of being childish. Either start supporting your positions with something other than your uninformed opinion or admit you're just a troll.

ETA: I hope you're aware the local sheriffs are going to continue enforcing immigration law now regardless of DHS. They never needed the 287g program, it was just a cooperative system giving them access to databases in the spirit of post 9-11 inter-agency connecting. The DHS doesn't have the power to strip anyone of anything.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by ecoparity]

Many of "whatever" Clinton did - - was overturned as soon as Bush took office.

That's the way of politics. Live with it.

This subject seems way over-the-top important to you.

Why? Are you a sheriff?

Originally posted by Annee
This subject seems way over-the-top important to you.

Why? Are you a sheriff?

My wifes parents immigrated legally in the 70s-80s. Some of her family lives in Mexico, some in the US legally and some illegally.

I've been face to face with a coyote who decided he wanted more money for my wife's 13 yr old cousin and was going to rape her for payment after she almost died walking through the desert for 4 days. She had to drink her own urine to stay alive.
Thanks to your much loved sanctuary city policies the police cannot and will not do anything about this type of situation. Calling ICE is a complete waste of time as well. Since no one else would do anything about it I had to.

I've been to Mexico and seen how the rest of her family has to live there. We send them money and have sponsored some of the children to immigrate legally. If I didn't send money they would split up their families and send more children across by themselves. Do you have any clue what happens to women and little girls on the way over here?

My mother in law cleans houses for a living. She's making less and less money every year as her customers demand she take the same pay the illegals will take. Some of these people were customers since she first came to America, she raised their kids and thought of them as friends.

My family has had a carpentry business for more generations than we can count, going back to Germany. My Dad had to declare bankruptcy last year because he cannot compete with the people willing to hire illegal aliens. The other half of my family are in law enforcement so breaking the law just isn't an option for him. He did three tours in Vietnam, came home to do very hard work, back-breaking work and now he's lost his business because some people want to exploit the poorest of the poor to make a few bucks.

It's sanctioned slavery. You can dress it up in all the immigration opportunity crap you want to but it creates an endless stream of exploited people.

The government of Mexico spends millions on political lobbying to keep the illegal aliens here. They want the money the illegals send home and its cheaper than creating social reforms in their country. Most of all, they like the system the way it is, extremely rich and extremely poor with almost nothing in between. Kings and servants.

That's the evil you and everyone like you are propping up. You see a decent family trying to make it and think the best solution is to look the other way and let them. I see the endless waves of poverty which will destroy this country eventually. If you can't see how much damage is being done and will be done then enjoy living in ignorance. Sooner or later you'll pay just like everyone else.

This entire thing with the sheriffs is not just some political policy. Its a matter of constitutional law and the administration trying to claim once again they can ignore the constitution and remove one of the strongest checks and balances we have.

No one, regardless of your political leanings should support this. You're a prime example of everything I despise in party politics. Since your man is in office you support anything they do, no matter how bad it is. You don't even stop to think about the fact that eventually another Republican you'll hate will be in office and now all those bad policies will be in their hands.

This exact issue has already gone to the Supreme Court. Giuliani sued all the way up the court system to keep his sanctuary city policies in place in NYC and he LOST. Even after the supreme court told him he was wrong he just said, "Oh well, I'm just going to keep doing it anyway".

That's where we are in the country. The government just ignores the constitution, does whatever it wants to and people like you cheer it on. You're as despicable as the Republicans who supported Bush in passing the Patriot Act and every other constitution wrecking law / executive order.

Sorry, I'm not willing to sit back and just "accept" tyranny, exploitation and modern day slavery.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by ecoparity]

You have your personal point of view - others have theirs.

I agree with much of your point of view.

However - Sheriff Joe is targeting ALL those of Mexican heritage legal or not.

That is Profiling. Legal Mexican/Americans are being treated as criminals - - subject to raids and gestapo type tactics.

I drive through 4 check points when I go to CA. They are intimidating - but as I said - they are posted on a website - you know they are there - you know you have to drive through them or take a different route.

Some say if you are innocent/not doing anything wrong - you have nothing to fear. But - that is not completely true.

I AM completely innocent - never used drugs - and as someone else said "white as a T-shirt". Twice my car was tagged by drug dogs - for whatever reason. I KNEW I was innocent - - but I felt like a criminal - it is just that intimidating. I can't even imagine how I'd feel or be treated if I was of Mexican heritage.

Aggressive Profiling and stopping people because they are of Mexican heritage for "Suspected" Criminal Activity is Un-Acceptable.

Sure - Sheriff Joe catches illegals - but at what cost to the large Mexican/American population of Maricopa County?

There are immigration divisions that are trained specifically in immigration law and procedures. My support goes to our high unemployment rate. Increase jobs and positions in the already established immigration division.

Originally posted by die_another_day
I'd say we nuke the border and see if anyone wanna cross

A nuclear tampon to stop the flow?

Someone mentioned the sheriff was the highest law enforcement authority in the county.. technically there is a higher authority as far as giving orders: the county coroner.

Nobody can touch, move or disturb a dead body without the coroners permission. The coroner can also issue orders to the sheriff, DA, or any chief of police (cop) re: any coroner related investigation.

Originally posted by GovtFlu

Originally posted by die_another_day
I'd say we nuke the border and see if anyone wanna cross

A nuclear tampon to stop the flow?

Someone mentioned the sheriff was the highest law enforcement authority in the county.. technically there is a higher authority as far as giving orders: the county coroner.

Nobody can touch, move or disturb a dead body without the coroners permission. The coroner can also issue orders to the sheriff, DA, or any chief of police (cop) re: any coroner related investigation.

A military order would also out rank the sheriff.

I'd think if divisions of immigration were classified under military - - they would probably also out rank the sheriff.

Like I said - after reading some of what was posted at "The Sheriff Project" (or should I say "The Sheriff Power") - - it needs its own thread.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

reply to post by Annee


I've provided the FOIA documents from ICE which make up the entire alleged "case" against Maricopa County. Every operation, "sweep", investigation and arrest is there.

There is absolutely zero evidence of racial profiling. In fact, after reading the history of the 287g program there it looks like they really weren't doing enough. Barely 300 arrests in 2.5 years? Please.....

The stories about checkpoints where only Hispanics were targeted turned out to be complete fiction, not a single operation report for a single checkpoint. I spent a great deal of time in that area and I know if one were to set up a checkpoint targeting Hispanics you would get 300 arrests in a single weekend if not one busy night.

They're using a controversial Sheriff to sneak by a change to the program which would enrage the voters if they were told the truth (and eventually they'll find out). The only positive I can find in the entire scandal is that local Sheriffs are now being "bullied" by the feds, a complete change from the engagement and "join the feds against the people" modus operandi which happened after 9/11.

I see this over-step of federal authority turning local law enforcement against them. We actually couldn't ask for a more beneficial mistake.

You should know by now that this will only make Sheriff Arpaio even more popular with his constituents and further raise tensions between citizens and illegal aliens. This event has zero chance of getting rid of the Sheriff and about a 100 percent chance of being used by him to solidify local support.

If I were worried about true vigilantism I would be deeply concerned about any efforts on the federal government's part to further reduce immigration enforcement.

reply to post by Annee


Only under martial law can the military give orders to a Sheriff in his jurisdiction.

Putting immigration enforcement under military control would be a huge violation of posse comitatus.

You seem to have a very, very poor grasp of Constitutional law to the point of proposing extremely dangerous violations of it. Is this where liberals are now? Let's trash the Constitution to get what "we" want?

I don't think you have clue how many people in this country are completely fed up with a federal government which thinks it can bend or break the constitution how and when it suits them. Over half of the states in the union passed or are ready to pass 10th amendment resolutions, a precursor to dissolution of the union and possibly civil war.

Your ignorance of our Constitution is frightening and dangerous.

I'll give you and people who think like you some sage advice. You know that contempt everyone feels towards the neocons who blindly supported Bush on the many violations of constitutional rights and crimes against humanity which took place via policy and executive orders?

That's how everyone is going to feel about the liberals who blindly support Obama and his administration in performing similar criminal acts. For all the screaming and complaining during the Bush Presidency it would seem the left learned absolutely nothing from it. You people were not raising a defense against a tyrannical President, you just wanted that President to be of your ideology. Hypocrisy is a trademark of the left, however so I should not be surprised.

It would do you folks some good to remember how you felt about that faction of the right wing which supported Bush no matter what he did. A huge number of the left are now doing that exact same thing for Obama.

[edit on 17-10-2009 by ecoparity]

You seem to have tunnel vision.

You see only one aspect of this whole situation.

As I've said - I live in Arizona. Do you think we stand around and talk about Maria Shriver's phone etiquette.

The difference is - I am open to ALL sides of opinions/viewpoints in regards to. You are not.

I see you haven't started a thread on "The Sheriff Project" - - which seems to be your focus.

Here's one already on ATS:

"The County Sheriff, America's Last Hope"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Annee
I see you haven't started a thread on "The Sheriff Project" - - which seems to be your focus.

Here's one already on ATS:

"The County Sheriff, America's Last Hope"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why don't you start your own thread? If you're that concerned about it and have a burning need to warn ATS then go get em. I found the website had an accurate and easy to read description of the constitutional authority and duties of the office of Sheriff.

As usual you looked at it through your political bias and made an entire set of assumptions.

I consider you to be one of the many in the country who have no real education on our form of government or history. It's not your fault, the educational system has been neutered to make sure that people have very little or incorrect understanding of the US system.

Our country was designed in such a way as to prevent the kind of tyranny and abuses our founders came here to escape from. Little by little the people who would like to be able to engage in tyranny and abuse of the people, be it for greed or power have managed to work around that system and undermine it, bit by bit until we're at a point in history where they can actually get away with just violating our constitution completely.

Unlike you, I don't care who is doing it, what political party they come from and so on - I want it stopped and I'm willing to fight back. That means trying to inform people who think like you, that it's OK to break the rules so long as it's your guy doing the breaking.

If you can't see the inherent danger in that and how it will come back to bite you in the ass then I really can't help you. Enjoy being part of the problem for as long as you're able, I suppose.

Originally posted by ecoparity


Why don't you start your own thread? If you're that concerned about it and have a burning need to warn ATS then go get em. I found the website had an accurate and easy to read description of the constitutional authority and duties of the office of Sheriff.

As usual you looked at it through your political bias and made an entire set of assumptions.

I consider you to be one of the many in the country who have no real education on our form of government or history. It's not your fault, the educational system has been neutered to make sure that people have very little or incorrect understanding of the US system.

You are the one who is making this thread about "The Sheriff Project" - - which is not what its about.

You have no idea what my politics are.

Nice try on the personal education slam - - - because I don't LEAN your way.

One word on government/history/constitution/laws: INTERPRETATION.

reply to post by Annee


I posted a link so you could educate yourself on the Constitution as it relates to the office of Sheriff, you're the one who keeps posting on and on about the "Sheriff Project" and how someone should "Start a thread about it".

Before that you claimed the feds have power over the Sheriff and even after being given the information you then claimed the military could be put in charge of immigration and then outrank the Sheriff.

Your ignorance of the constitution is made evident by your own writing, my politics have nothing to do with your failure to understand the system of government in the country you live in.

Go find some other thread to troll on, I'm done wasting my time with you.

Joe has done a great job with the illegal immigrants, The only way to make this law work is for every state in the union to adopt legislation as Arizona is trying to do. We need desperately to clear our country of the illegals. It's just getting too expensive to pay their way. If they come in the front door and can read, write and speak english, give the the opportunity to become tax paying citizens of our great country.

Joe has done a great job with the illegal immigrants, The only way to make this law work is for every state in the union to adopt legislation as Arizona is trying to do. We need desperately to clear our country of the illegals. It's just getting too expensive to pay their way. If they come in the front door and can read, write and speak english, give the the opportunity to become tax paying citizens of our great country.

The sheriff of Pinal county came on TV the other day to try and explain the virtual war that is going on with illegals - his officers reported a total of 64 high speed pursuits involving illegals in the first few months of this year alone.

Phoenix has the highest car theft rate in the country. I know of one person who was forced to shoot and kill an illegal who was carjacking him at gunpoint in the metro Phoenix area, a rancher was murdered recently by illegals, road deaths are increasing due to DUIs as driving while drunk is highly regarded in the Latino culture, and we ourselves (living on the edge of the desert) had 2 illegals hopping fences trying to break into neighborhood homes, all this even while the residents were yelling at them to leave - they had no fear, or at least they didn't until they reached our house.

If I hear one more idiot tell me that they are all decent honest people who just want to work hard and enjoy a better standard of life here in the US, I think I'll puke.

Come and live on the border for a while, things probably seem a lot different when you're passing judgement from New Hampshire.

So now Arizona is actually putting Americans first, what a novel idea !!!