Originally posted by ecoparity
. . . he's just being used by the Obama administration. They stripped all local sheriffs of the same authority without any reason, the allegations against Arpaios are just being used to divert attention away from the real scope of the incident and also as a warning to other Sheriffs to go along quietly.

Since you insist on making this about politics.

Under the Bush administration: Power was given that never should have.

Under Obama: it is being returned to ICE - as it should be.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by ecoparity
. . . he's just being used by the Obama administration. They stripped all local sheriffs of the same authority without any reason, the allegations against Arpaios are just being used to divert attention away from the real scope of the incident and also as a warning to other Sheriffs to go along quietly.

Since you insist on making this about politics.

Under the Bush administration: Power was given that never should have.

Under Obama: it is being returned to ICE - as it should be.

That's your opinion.

The reason the 287g program was started was because the Immigration lobbyists, headed up by the government of Mexico were able to pay off congress and local politicians to set policies where local law enforcement was not able to arrest illegal aliens.

This created "sanctuary cities" where illegals were able to commit crimes without worry of being deported for them because the police were not allowed to even ask about their immigration status.

Once again, Sheriffs under our constitution are allowed to decide what state and federal laws they will enforce or not enforce. This is a check and balance against exactly the kind of lobbying I just mentioned as well as protecting citizens against a Federal government which has fallen into tyranny.

Like it or not the establishment of the 287g program under the Bush administration actually re-balanced an unconstitutional set of policies. What the DHS is doing now is against the constitution and being handled in an underhanded, under the table manner.

I keep providing you with documentation and resources and you just keep coming back with your unsupported opinion. I've even tried to show you how enabling illegal immigration actually does more damage to everyone including the immigrants.

Believe it or not I'm not taking the "anti-immigrant" position on things, I've been very balanced. Most of the right wing just wants them all thrown out of the country, I want our government to push the home countries to enact social changes so these people can have a decent life and not have to commit a felony, risk their lives crossing the border and divide families.

I'm not the one being "political", you are. You're one of those people who will support Obama regardless of what his administration really does. Despite being a conservative, I never supported Bush and do not define my views according to politics, ever.

I don't mind discussion and debate but you're just being ridiculous to the point of being childish. Either start supporting your positions with something other than your uninformed opinion or admit you're just a troll.

ETA: I hope you're aware the local sheriffs are going to continue enforcing immigration law now regardless of DHS. They never needed the 287g program, it was just a cooperative system giving them access to databases in the spirit of post 9-11 inter-agency connecting. The DHS doesn't have the power to strip anyone of anything.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by ecoparity]

Many of "whatever" Clinton did - - was overturned as soon as Bush took office.

That's the way of politics. Live with it.

This subject seems way over-the-top important to you.

Why? Are you a sheriff?

Originally posted by Annee
This subject seems way over-the-top important to you.

Why? Are you a sheriff?

My wifes parents immigrated legally in the 70s-80s. Some of her family lives in Mexico, some in the US legally and some illegally.

I've been face to face with a coyote who decided he wanted more money for my wife's 13 yr old cousin and was going to rape her for payment after she almost died walking through the desert for 4 days. She had to drink her own urine to stay alive.
Thanks to your much loved sanctuary city policies the police cannot and will not do anything about this type of situation. Calling ICE is a complete waste of time as well. Since no one else would do anything about it I had to.

I've been to Mexico and seen how the rest of her family has to live there. We send them money and have sponsored some of the children to immigrate legally. If I didn't send money they would split up their families and send more children across by themselves. Do you have any clue what happens to women and little girls on the way over here?

My mother in law cleans houses for a living. She's making less and less money every year as her customers demand she take the same pay the illegals will take. Some of these people were customers since she first came to America, she raised their kids and thought of them as friends.

My family has had a carpentry business for more generations than we can count, going back to Germany. My Dad had to declare bankruptcy last year because he cannot compete with the people willing to hire illegal aliens. The other half of my family are in law enforcement so breaking the law just isn't an option for him. He did three tours in Vietnam, came home to do very hard work, back-breaking work and now he's lost his business because some people want to exploit the poorest of the poor to make a few bucks.

It's sanctioned slavery. You can dress it up in all the immigration opportunity crap you want to but it creates an endless stream of exploited people.

The government of Mexico spends millions on political lobbying to keep the illegal aliens here. They want the money the illegals send home and its cheaper than creating social reforms in their country. Most of all, they like the system the way it is, extremely rich and extremely poor with almost nothing in between. Kings and servants.

That's the evil you and everyone like you are propping up. You see a decent family trying to make it and think the best solution is to look the other way and let them. I see the endless waves of poverty which will destroy this country eventually. If you can't see how much damage is being done and will be done then enjoy living in ignorance. Sooner or later you'll pay just like everyone else.

This entire thing with the sheriffs is not just some political policy. Its a matter of constitutional law and the administration trying to claim once again they can ignore the constitution and remove one of the strongest checks and balances we have.

No one, regardless of your political leanings should support this. You're a prime example of everything I despise in party politics. Since your man is in office you support anything they do, no matter how bad it is. You don't even stop to think about the fact that eventually another Republican you'll hate will be in office and now all those bad policies will be in their hands.

This exact issue has already gone to the Supreme Court. Giuliani sued all the way up the court system to keep his sanctuary city policies in place in NYC and he LOST. Even after the supreme court told him he was wrong he just said, "Oh well, I'm just going to keep doing it anyway".

That's where we are in the country. The government just ignores the constitution, does whatever it wants to and people like you cheer it on. You're as despicable as the Republicans who supported Bush in passing the Patriot Act and every other constitution wrecking law / executive order.

Sorry, I'm not willing to sit back and just "accept" tyranny, exploitation and modern day slavery.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by ecoparity]

You have your personal point of view - others have theirs.

I agree with much of your point of view.

However - Sheriff Joe is targeting ALL those of Mexican heritage legal or not.

That is Profiling. Legal Mexican/Americans are being treated as criminals - - subject to raids and gestapo type tactics.

I drive through 4 check points when I go to CA. They are intimidating - but as I said - they are posted on a website - you know they are there - you know you have to drive through them or take a different route.

Some say if you are innocent/not doing anything wrong - you have nothing to fear. But - that is not completely true.

I AM completely innocent - never used drugs - and as someone else said "white as a T-shirt". Twice my car was tagged by drug dogs - for whatever reason. I KNEW I was innocent - - but I felt like a criminal - it is just that intimidating. I can't even imagine how I'd feel or be treated if I was of Mexican heritage.

Aggressive Profiling and stopping people because they are of Mexican heritage for "Suspected" Criminal Activity is Un-Acceptable.

Sure - Sheriff Joe catches illegals - but at what cost to the large Mexican/American population of Maricopa County?

There are immigration divisions that are trained specifically in immigration law and procedures. My support goes to our high unemployment rate. Increase jobs and positions in the already established immigration division.

Originally posted by die_another_day
I'd say we nuke the border and see if anyone wanna cross

A nuclear tampon to stop the flow?

Someone mentioned the sheriff was the highest law enforcement authority in the county.. technically there is a higher authority as far as giving orders: the county coroner.

Nobody can touch, move or disturb a dead body without the coroners permission. The coroner can also issue orders to the sheriff, DA, or any chief of police (cop) re: any coroner related investigation.

Originally posted by GovtFlu

Originally posted by die_another_day
I'd say we nuke the border and see if anyone wanna cross

A nuclear tampon to stop the flow?

Someone mentioned the sheriff was the highest law enforcement authority in the county.. technically there is a higher authority as far as giving orders: the county coroner.

Nobody can touch, move or disturb a dead body without the coroners permission. The coroner can also issue orders to the sheriff, DA, or any chief of police (cop) re: any coroner related investigation.

A military order would also out rank the sheriff.

I'd think if divisions of immigration were classified under military - - they would probably also out rank the sheriff.

Like I said - after reading some of what was posted at "The Sheriff Project" (or should I say "The Sheriff Power") - - it needs its own thread.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

You seem to have tunnel vision.

You see only one aspect of this whole situation.

As I've said - I live in Arizona. Do you think we stand around and talk about Maria Shriver's phone etiquette.

The difference is - I am open to ALL sides of opinions/viewpoints in regards to. You are not.

Originally posted by ecoparity


Why don't you start your own thread? If you're that concerned about it and have a burning need to warn ATS then go get em. I found the website had an accurate and easy to read description of the constitutional authority and duties of the office of Sheriff.

As usual you looked at it through your political bias and made an entire set of assumptions.

I consider you to be one of the many in the country who have no real education on our form of government or history. It's not your fault, the educational system has been neutered to make sure that people have very little or incorrect understanding of the US system.

You are the one who is making this thread about "The Sheriff Project" - - which is not what its about.

You have no idea what my politics are.

Nice try on the personal education slam - - - because I don't LEAN your way.

One word on government/history/constitution/laws: INTERPRETATION.

Joe has done a great job with the illegal immigrants, The only way to make this law work is for every state in the union to adopt legislation as Arizona is trying to do. We need desperately to clear our country of the illegals. It's just getting too expensive to pay their way. If they come in the front door and can read, write and speak english, give the the opportunity to become tax paying citizens of our great country.

Joe has done a great job with the illegal immigrants, The only way to make this law work is for every state in the union to adopt legislation as Arizona is trying to do. We need desperately to clear our country of the illegals. It's just getting too expensive to pay their way. If they come in the front door and can read, write and speak english, give the the opportunity to become tax paying citizens of our great country.

The sheriff of Pinal county came on TV the other day to try and explain the virtual war that is going on with illegals - his officers reported a total of 64 high speed pursuits involving illegals in the first few months of this year alone.

Phoenix has the highest car theft rate in the country. I know of one person who was forced to shoot and kill an illegal who was carjacking him at gunpoint in the metro Phoenix area, a rancher was murdered recently by illegals, road deaths are increasing due to DUIs as driving while drunk is highly regarded in the Latino culture, and we ourselves (living on the edge of the desert) had 2 illegals hopping fences trying to break into neighborhood homes, all this even while the residents were yelling at them to leave - they had no fear, or at least they didn't until they reached our house.

If I hear one more idiot tell me that they are all decent honest people who just want to work hard and enjoy a better standard of life here in the US, I think I'll puke.

Come and live on the border for a while, things probably seem a lot different when you're passing judgement from New Hampshire.

So now Arizona is actually putting Americans first, what a novel idea !!!