Italy Ex-President - CIA And Mossad Ran 9-11

I hope you don't seriously expect me to believe that you never made blanket insults against all "truthers" until I came along. Your insults aren't even directed at me personally, but seemingly everyone who posts here that you disagree with.

And I don't see how stereotyping a large and diverse group of people, again, has anything to do with me personally. You are discrminating against many very different people, the vast majority of which you don't know personally in the slightest.

Bias is a term used to describe a tendency or preference towards a particular perspective, ideology or result, especially when the tendency interferes with the ability to be impartial, unprejudiced, or objective.

en.wikipedia.org...

Are you ready to explain what is impartial, unprejudiced, or objective about your blanket insults and derogatory stereotypes?

Originally posted by bsbray11
I hope you don't seriously expect me to believe that you never made blanket insults against all "truthers" until I came along. Your insults aren't even directed at me personally, but seemingly everyone who posts here that you disagree with.

And I don't see how stereotyping a large and diverse group of people, again, has anything to do with me personally. You are discrminating against many very different people, the vast majority of which you don't know personally in the slightest.

Are you ready to explain what is impartial, unprejudiced, or objective about your blanket insults and derogatory stereotypes?

Hey man, like get a life. I get insulted regularly, accused of being a disinfo agent, government shill, Mossad, NWO, and other absurdities. I don’t lose sleep over it.

I know people who devote their lives to researching and writing with little recognition or reward - and I see the fruits of their labour routinely dismissed as brainwashing , MSM, part of the Grand cover-up, etc.

Truthers are people who voluntarily decide to become Truthers. They're not born into it, victims of random genetics, from deprived circumstances that gives them no alternatives.

So they are as subject to criticism as any group that decides on an aberrant political or philosophical opinion

I find them almost to a fault intolerant of conflicting views. Information from a government approved source or commercial media, receives unanimous instant condemnation. Its reactionary.

I’m just dishing out a taste of what I receive. You don't want to hear what I really think.


M




[edit on 20-9-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by Exsisto


I agree with most of your post -- especially that it isn't productive to bother following this track. However, I would say that the Leader of Iran is covered by our media precisely BECAUSE he is not credible.

If he is credible, he will be ignored like Sibel Edmonds.

Interview the guy in the pink tu-tu if you want to discredit some concept and ignore the guy in the suite. For that very reason, or newscasters are very well dressed.

I still remember the time that Pappy Bush had one of his buddies accuse him of meeting with the Iranians in Paris to negotiate the Arms for Hostages deal -- really, it was the "Arms for NO Hostages being Returned Deal" but framing it the other way, makes it look less self-serving and treasonous.

The friend accuses Bushy of the meeting -- and there as other, ample evidence it took place. But the press ate it up. Well, it went for about a week, and then "suddenly" someone discovered VISA receipts that the whistle-blower was in the good 'ol USA the entire time. It was a "Dan Rather" burn, and the Bush family is masters of it.


Nothing burns a conspiracy theory better than the truth, told with a few fraudulent proofs. Then the press doesn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Always remember, and this is ALWAYS TRUE; point to the people or the professions and not to the country and religion if you want to make headway.

Judaism, and a country, have nothing to do with the abuses of certain groups -- just like the Bush Crime Family, has nothing to do with the USA -- in fact, they are multinational bank robbers and are as much citizens of Dubai as they are a phony Ranch in Texas.

Bush Jr. is afraid of horses, by the way -- but clearing Brush is less dangerous.

reply to post by mmiichael


I don't lose sleep, either. But it is generally expected when you post here that you have a civil and reasoned discussion. I enjoy those standards and don't like seeing them trampled all over like this is JREF. Communication can't be accomplished so long as you continually stereotype us and look down on us and insult us as a group. You're no better of a person than I am. I can even restrain myself from calling so many people "whack jobs," which is something even you have yet to master.

You're right about me not particularly caring to know what you "really think," because I have more than a sneaking suspicion that it wouldn't be a very deep revelation. I'm sure it would be quickly moderated too. I couldn't tell you why, but it seems to come out of you so easily, you know. All I am suggesting is that you drop the condescension and treat us as equals, at least if you want me to stop complaining about your posting habits. I have no problem complaining so long as you have no problem stereotyping me and insulting me instead of having a reasonable discussion. It's just what happens in place of a rational discussion when you opt to insult us instead. Unless you just post here to feed your ego, you should have no problem not insulting or stereotyping us or see anything wrong with the idea. The fact that you can't relent from constantly insulting us is more telling about the kind of person you are and what interests you have here than anything you actually post. Especially when you say yourself you have no interest in debating evidence anymore. You don't think you are transparent, do you?

[edit on 20-9-2009 by bsbray11]

reply to post by talisman


Was it an inside Job? God I pray the answer is no, but if it was not contrived by parties with a vested interest, then they must have praised its happening none the less. Just have a look at a map of the middle east. What do Iraq and Afghanistan have in common?

If true, the implications are really scary. I wonder what would have happened to North Korea if they had denied the holocaust, and made statements that Israel should be wiped from the map? I for one believe that we should not allow persons with dual citizenship in any policy making position. Foreign based lobbying should be banned as well. Has anyone noticed how many enjoy dual citizenship with Israel? Is this not a conflict of interest? Someone please compile a list!

If it ever did come to light that any government had their hand in 911 there would be a fiery hell to pay. If the CIA was ever to ever admit involvement it could well mean the end of the USA as we now know it. It’s akin to the biggest game of Russian Rolette ever played.

I for one would never support a war with Iran. Iranians are one of the most diehard people on earth. During the Iraq Iran war waves of Iranian children, old men and even women ran at Iraqi troops unarmed in allot of cases, Iraqi machine gunners mowed them down for hours only to be overran (look up the Iraq Iran war 1980-1988 on Google). An invasion of Iran is akin to Genocide for this reason. There is no victory to be had in Iran! Imagine the response if a foreign army marched into the USA, the same is to be expected from Iran.

Of course I am biased. I think Israel is a terrorist state, and 911 would have been right up their alley.




























And we call these people friends!!!

I could literally post videos of Israeli atrocities for days on end. Just have a look on youtube. And for anyone not familiar with the Jewish Talmud (One the holeyest of Jewish texts) you should do some reading. It goes a long way to explain the Jewish state’s stance on the seizure on non Jewish lands.

It’s not the Jewish people as a whole who are to blame, but rather the Talmud thumpers who think it is their god given right to take all they like from the Gentile. The tables should be turned, and these thieves and murderers should be rounded up and prosecuted.

[edit on 21-9-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to bsbray11

I read a lot of stuff here and elsewhere. This thread is yet another attempt to implicate Israel in 9/11, and the usual Glee Club is drawn to it and cheering.

At any moment I expect someone to bring up Silverstein saying "Pull it" and the story of dancing Israelies with a van full of explosives - all thoroughly debunked half a decade ago.

When I see no learning curve I respond. When I see people trying to introduce questioning of knee jerk Truther dogma ganged up on, I respond.

Because this is a conspiracy site and the majority accept information fed to them by amateur webites and videos cashing in on 9/11 interest, doesn't mean something absurd and inflammatory has to be accepted. When I see something completely false I make msy feelings known.

The fact that I regularly communicate with you and some others whose intelligence I can at least respect should be taken as a positive indicator. I don't have to be here, I can choose who I reply to and who I ignore.

You not only judge people by what they say, but what they do. If they had no interest you wouldn't be hearing from them.


M




[edit on 21-9-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
At any moment I expect someone to bring up Silverstein saying "Pull it" and the story of dancing Israelies with a van full of explosives - all thoroughly debunked half a decade ago.

When I see no learning curve I respond. When I see people trying to introduce questioning of knee jerk Truther dogma ganged up on, I respond.

But you don't respond with evidence or facts, you respond with this rhetoric, and you cram in all these weasel words and continually insult our intelligence.

If you want to talk about a learning curve, and about learning new things, the first prerequisite is to not be so damned sure of what you already believe, as to insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with you. That is arrogance. There is no learning because we are not communicating, because you don't talk to us as equals, you talk down to us and insult us constantly. There is no learning to be had in that.

You say the dancing Israelis were "thoroughly debunked half a decade ago" but what the hell is there even to debunk? It was confirmed they were Israeli, it was confirmed they were spies, that they were videotaping the attacks and celebrating them, and they were even detained for some time before being released back to Israel. I suppose you have some kind of PROOF that they didn't have detailed foreknowledge of what was going to happen? What exactly has been "debunked" about this incident?

Because this is a conspiracy site and the majority accept information fed to them by amateur webites and videos cashing in on 9/11 interest

That's your opinion. And it is derogatory stereotyping, not surprisingly.

The fact that I regularly communicate with you and some others whose intelligence I can at least respect should be taken as a positive indicator.

I guess I should feel honored that you choose to insult me so regularly. You ride an awfully high horse don't you?

[edit on 21-9-2009 by bsbray11]

bsbray11

you know what - let's forget it.

I wrote a message to that effect saying that just yesterday. Which you decided was an rant and didn't even read.

What I think.

You're knowledgeable - but not smart.

All people in this state suffer from the same delusion they know everything. It has to do with lack of self-awareness.

Wikipedia has a lot of information - but it's incapable of differentiating fact from fiction.

You too.


M

[edit on 21-9-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael


This is what mystifies me. The more I try to convince you to come off personal attacks, which is the logical thing to do, the more you pile them on, and the more arrogant you become, as if just to spite me. You really just respond to me to spite me, that's all. If I say something is black, you say it's white. So I say insulting people is wrong and a waste of a discussion, and you respond by insulting my intelligence more directly than ever before. Now you see why we can never agree on anything; because you don't WANT to, it breaks the rules of your ego game. You have to do the opposite of whatever I say, or think the opposite, because I'm the intellectual enemy, therefore I must be stupid, you have to be smarter, and frankly it's a miracle that I can even put my clothes on in the morning.

If you can get away with it, you should just call me stupid in each and every one of your posts until you work it all out of your system. Maybe throw a few "I hate you" 's in there, whatever makes you feel better. Maybe if I tell you that I live in an alley, that I'm cold and wet every night that I go to sleep, and that I cry myself to sleep every night, maybe that will make you feel better too? Just tell me -- what can I say that will make you less miserable, that you will no longer have the desire to come here just to belittle others? Have I ever told you that I used to do the same thing when I was about 14 or 15 years old? Go to forums and engage people battle-style to prove something to myself. And now I feel ashamed of myself for many of the things I posted that were totally uncalled for, that I thought were very clever then, but realize were extremely immature now. There is no maturity in being hateful. There is no self-awareness in insulting the intelligence of people you don't even know. There IS maturity in kindness, patience, all the positive things I could list, that you would immediately oppose simply because I mentioned them (not to mention the pure hideousness of the tender word "kind," right?), and you can never take heed of anything I say because it would break the rules of your ego game, that you still haven't been able to win to your satisfaction apparently.


So, I asked where your stats were to back your assertion that 99% of engineers were in agreement. And you responded with no stats (because you don't have any, because you were just making things up), and now apparently the answer to my dancing Israeli question was embedded in that post too? Is that what you're trying to tell me? That you can't tell me what was "debunked" about the dancing Israelis because it was embedded in that rant of a post that I saved myself the trouble of reading? So if I go back and find it and read it again, it's going to have some kind of proof debunking something about the dancing Israeli Mossad agents in it? See, this was the closest to an actual 9/11 topic we've come to discussing in a good while, and you instantly backed out of it to call me stupid instead. Once again you refrain from talking about kind of facts or evidence to favor personal attacks. Why do you post here again?

[edit on 21-9-2009 by bsbray11]

Most Objective thinking people know deep down that 9-11 was staged and not by some guy in the middle of Afghanistan without world wide connections and infrastructure. There were just too many F'ups - even for the U.S. Government agencies - for the attack to go on without anyone stopping at least one or two of the hijackers. As more and more information surfaces - the more and more those believers of it being an insiders job will be labeled terrorists or as FOX News is doing these days - labeling all who do not follow their beliefs - Communists!

I wonder if that Russian who stated that the United States will implode before 2012 is bang on in his insights!

Hey I just want to say something to all you guys. This thread is not meant for any Anti-Israel thing. It was meant to relay info on what someone has said.

If the Italian is incorrect or misunderstood, again apologies, but I am not sure if this guy is playing games. The evidence is there for all to consider and it is not hiding under the carpet.

IF evidence comes up that points to something with Israel, lets put it out there and lets not be accused of something. That is ridiculous.

The other thing to consider is that it is possible that Israel might have had their INTEL agencies involved.


After all, I find it to coincidental that One of the Hijackers was actually related to an Israeli spy! I find that a little to incredidble.


I mean, we have one hijacker related to an Israeli spy and we have Osama who has a family that knows the Bush's. I mean come On!!!

[edit on 21-9-2009 by talisman]

reply to post by mmiichael

Truthers are people who voluntarily decide to become Truthers. They're not born into it, victims of random genetics, from deprived circumstances that gives them no alternatives.

Sorry to disagree with you, I was born this way

At any moment I expect someone to bring up Silverstein saying "Pull it" and the story of dancing Israelies with a van full of explosives - all thoroughly debunked half a decade ago.

Again, sorry, I don't believe you can debunk recorded history. It appears the MSM did their jobs before they were told to debunk the story.

reply to post by talisman



It’s just that the shoe fits. I have great respect for Jewish people, but I cannot stand the Supremacist Rabbinic Hate dir4cted at the Palestinian, Christian and every other non Jew. Regardless of how they got there, the Palestinian is being evicted from land they have occupied for generations. The hate inflicted by the settlers is akin to the behavior of Germans during WWII. There will likely never be a Palestinian state, as it seems Israeli sate policy is to seize all lands labeled by the UN as Palestine.

Please anyone who would deny the above statements, please explain why Palestinians have no right under law to defend themselves against settler attacks? Why would a UN sanctioned state of Palestine (UN Mandate, British Mandate ) have no right to defend itself from an ever encroaching Israeli army?

To think that 911 and the resulting response could have been contrived by this terrorist state, makes me more than sick.


[edit on 21-9-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Here are the links on that Israeli Spy who "just so happened" to be related to a 9/11 Hijacker:

www.dailystar.com.lb...

www.nytimes.com...

One of Mr. Jarrah’s cousins, Ziad al-Jarrah, was among the 19 hijackers who carried out the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001,

Add to this George Bush and Bin Laden's brother and you have a very small world indeed!

Francesco Cossiga is some guy that you can trust in as you can trust in the existence of some 543 dollars banknote: long story short, the guy is some attention seeker, he's crazy and most likely some day smoked something of very strong which brought him to some one way trip from which he never came back. The guy is a LIAR, he makes up stories to get attention, whatever he claims can be trashed straight, he will never claim anything worthy to be taken seriously.

reply to post by Exsisto


Regardless, with some of my family living in Europe, I'm told everyone over there believe this story to be true for years now, be this specific write up to be a fabrication or not. I think they can believe the US can do this very evil thing much easier than our own citizen can handle believing it. It is hard for me too but I believe this story is true.

The very first thing that occurred to me when that second plane hit, Mos sad and the second thing that occurred to me was CIA. It was like a five mile long motorcade rolling through Dealy Plaza. The cover up was not nearly as good, perhaps because of the internet.. Now everybody knows.

Originally posted by Exsisto
reply to post by talisman

 

Seriously, guys and gals; can we please agree that we will all fact check and check sources on articles before we post them????

Let me start off by saying I SUPPORT THE 9/11 TRUTH MOVEMENT. There is a lot of disinformation out there that is meant to inflame and disorient the movement, and this article is likely an example of that.

The reason it has not received any attention is because it is likely a complete fabrication. A simple examination of the article itself makes that abundantly clear. It was written in such a manner so as not to lend itself to being sourced.

There is no writer named as having authored this story. Instead, a group called "Americans4Truth" is credited in the publication. There are no links available for this group, no contact (names or email) information for anyone associated with the writing published within the article. Credible news articles name their writers, and you should be able to search him or her by name and look at their journalistic record (other articles they are credited with, etc.).

Further, the story is extremely vague in its descriptions of source material, and where it should be citing sources by name; it doesn't. For example, the article states the former Italian President "told Italy's oldest and most widely read newspaper" he knows the truth about 9/11. What newspaper would that be??? It's not named anywhere it the article. Try finding out what "Italy's oldest and largest newspaper" is, so you can check the facts in this article. Oh, and good luck.

Lastly, the whole thing reads like inflammatory anti-Zionist rhetoric, and this is where it really falls apart. The article quotes former Italian President Francesco Cossiga as saying, "All the [intelligence services] of America and Europe know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the Mossad, with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part in Iraq [and] Afghanistan."

You think the Western media would ignore the former Italian President naming, in Italy's BIGGEST NEWSPAPER, the "Zionist world" (let's assume that means Israel) as being responsible for 9/11??? If Ahmenijad so much as farts in Israel's direction, the International community and the Western media jumps all over him. There's no way for a second that a former Western leader could get away with saying something like this and having it completely ignored. Not a chance.

I can't tell you how many articles I see posted on ATS that share the same issues as this one: No credible sources. No sources cited. Containing information that could be construed as stoking the fires of hate. It's horribly annoying that people are reading this stuff and considering it true on its face.

Yes, it's important that everyone wake up to the truth. It's also important that we not lose sight of our wits as we open our eyes. Excitability can lead to vulnerability. THINK, EXAMINE, PROCESS, ANALYZE the information you post before putting it up. It does us all a world of good.

a prime 911 "truth" infiltrator to discredit information on 911 truth.

The russians did it. They were pissed off about afghanistan and enacted paid for jihadist cells backed by U.S money buddies in Saudi Arabia. Bush ran with it and attacked Afghan to build a huge oil pipeline to run to the caspian:
www.ringnebula.com...

Regardless of belief on this, all assumption here, better be if u want to live , the pipeline was built and a 40 year contract signed with Kazakhstan, coincidence? Sympathy can be found in dictionary between #e and syphillis.