Italy Ex-President - CIA And Mossad Ran 9-11 , page 1
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 108 times
Topic started on 19-9-2009 @ 07:19 PM by talisman
my.auburnjournal.com...



Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga, who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio, has told Italy's oldest and most widely read newspaper that the 9-11 terrorist attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad, and that this was common knowledge among global intelligence agencies





In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, "You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security."



This is the guy who revealed "Gladio."

I know many debunkers will just ignore or brush aside this, but more and more people are coming forward (who have had a background in intel) and are saying the same or similar thing.

He obviously must be talking to other people and he obviously must have reason to think this.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by talisman]


reply posted on 19-9-2009 @ 08:27 PM by Abbby
reply to post by talisman


Star and flag. I'm suprised this hasn't recieved more responses.


reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 05:05 AM by Exsisto
reply to post by talisman


Seriously, guys and gals; can we please agree that we will all fact check and check sources on articles before we post them????

Let me start off by saying I SUPPORT THE 9/11 TRUTH MOVEMENT. There is a lot of disinformation out there that is meant to inflame and disorient the movement, and this article is likely an example of that.

The reason it has not received any attention is because it is likely a complete fabrication. A simple examination of the article itself makes that abundantly clear. It was written in such a manner so as not to lend itself to being sourced.

There is no writer named as having authored this story. Instead, a group called "Americans4Truth" is credited in the publication. There are no links available for this group, no contact (names or email) information for anyone associated with the writing published within the article. Credible news articles name their writers, and you should be able to search him or her by name and look at their journalistic record (other articles they are credited with, etc.).

Further, the story is extremely vague in its descriptions of source material, and where it should be citing sources by name; it doesn't. For example, the article states the former Italian President "told Italy's oldest and most widely read newspaper" he knows the truth about 9/11. What newspaper would that be??? It's not named anywhere it the article. Try finding out what "Italy's oldest and largest newspaper" is, so you can check the facts in this article. Oh, and good luck.

Lastly, the whole thing reads like inflammatory anti-Zionist rhetoric, and this is where it really falls apart. The article quotes former Italian President Francesco Cossiga as saying, "All the [intelligence services] of America and Europe know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the Mossad, with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part in Iraq [and] Afghanistan."

You think the Western media would ignore the former Italian President naming, in Italy's BIGGEST NEWSPAPER, the "Zionist world" (let's assume that means Israel) as being responsible for 9/11??? If Ahmenijad so much as farts in Israel's direction, the International community and the Western media jumps all over him. There's no way for a second that a former Western leader could get away with saying something like this and having it completely ignored. Not a chance.

I can't tell you how many articles I see posted on ATS that share the same issues as this one: No credible sources. No sources cited. Containing information that could be construed as stoking the fires of hate. It's horribly annoying that people are reading this stuff and considering it true on its face.

Yes, it's important that everyone wake up to the truth. It's also important that we not lose sight of our wits as we open our eyes. Excitability can lead to vulnerability. THINK, EXAMINE, PROCESS, ANALYZE the information you post before putting it up. It does us all a world of good.


reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 05:28 AM by trueforger
reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

Brief aside on hot steel.Here are some facts;Various steels behave differently when heated,due to chemical composition.Most will be forged or other hot work at almost 2000 degrees,this is white hot,to ensure the plastic deformation goes to the center of the bar,and the work is not just on the outside.Heat treating happens at around1200+,this is red hot,but the steel is plenty strong and rigid at that temp.It doesn't gradually soften as it incrementally gets hot,rather it has discreet stages of weakening that happens as temp's are reached.Kinetic energy will dramatically raise temp within the bar due to friction within the grain of the crystal lattice.All these,by the way,leave distinct traces within the grain and can readily be seen by inspection,which involves taking a specimen,polishing,etching and micro-viewing.Especially,extreme shock will leave a very distinct effect called 'twinning'where the cohesion bond fails(relatively, 'cold'work) and the crystals turn on an axis plane as they're shorn.You can see this in common cooking pans where there are lines within the grain of the metal,observable to naked eye even after finish polishing,etc.This is prob why the steel was whisked away,this mark is so obvious and permanent.There's more even,it is part of rocket science after all.And a final point is what is called the blue brittle stage where some steels have a breif temp range where they exhibit a remarkable weakness,and it is a low temp,like 450.Due to excess phosphorus,this is eliminated by selection.This is why each piece of structural steel is tested and samples are usually kept,whether by the supplier or architect.None is guesswork.And of course,great vid.



reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 05:51 AM by TrueAmerican
As it turns out, this story may have been a hoax.

The story DID appear, and here is the actual original article, in their paper:

www.corriere.it...

Good luck reading in Italian.

The big problem, however is in the fact that he was actually mocking conspiracy theorists, and he himself in no way believes 9/11 was an inside job.

Here is the translation of what was said in the article:

In an interview with Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera[4] Cossiga commented on the alleged Osama Bin Laden 9/11 confession video of December 13, 2001:

"Da ambienti vicini a Palazzo Chigi, centro nevralgico di direzione dell'intelligence italiana, si fa notare che la non autenticità del video è testimoniata dal fatto che Osama Bin Laden in esso 'confessa' che Al Qaeda sarebbe stato l'autore dell'attentato dell'11 settembre alle due torri in New York, mentre tutti gli ambienti democratici d'America e d'Europa, con in prima linea quelli del centrosinistra italiano, sanno ormai bene che il disastroso attentato è stato pianificato e realizzato dalla Cia americana e dal Mossad con l'aiuto del mondo sionista per mettere sotto accusa i Paesi arabi e per indurre le potenze occidentali ad intervenire sia in Iraq sia in Afghanistan."

“As I’ve been told, tomorrow or the day after tomorrow (interview appeared on 30 november 07) the most important chain of newspaper of our country should give the proof, with an exceptional scoop, that the video (which in reality is an audio tape, NdR) in which appear Osama, leader of “the great and powerful movement of islamic revenge Al Quaeda” - God bless him! - and in which are formulated threats to our ex president Berlusconi, is nothing more than a fake realized inside Mediaset studios (the huge television group owned by Berlusconi) in Milan and sent to arabic television Al Jazeera.

The trap was organized to create solidarity for Berlusconi, which is having lot of problem related for the tangle between RAI and Mediaset. From sources near to Palazzo Chigi, the nevralgic center of italian intelligence, we know that the video is fake because Osama admits that he was the mind behind the attacks against the twin towers, while all the democratic parties in Europe and USA know very well that the attack was organised by CIA and Mossad, whit the help of sionistic world, just to accuse arab countries and induce occident to intervein both in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is why nobody in parlament gave solidarity to Berlusconi, which is the author of the fake video"


en.wikipedia.org...

And from this other source, an another interview:

But, Cossiga himself admits he is not a conspiracy theorist, see this article published in the Italian newspaper La Stampa. (link broken though)

He affirms, "I refuse the conspiracy theory, which is a smart and sometimes sincere contrafaction of reality caused by the fear of that (reality)".

And also: "Rembering how "open" american society is, I think it's very unlikely, I may say impossible, that 9/11 was an inside job".

The conclusions are apparent and obvious:

(1) Francesco Cossiga has a sense of humor

(2) He like ourselves, enjoys taking pokes at unhinged, nutbar conspiracy cranks

(3) Francesco Cossiga by his own empathic admission, definitely does not believe 9/11 was that tiresome cliche, "an inside job"

(4) The hoax peddled by the Alex Jones front [site] is a deliberate, Yellow Journalistic, sensationalistic, Tabloid fabrication

(5) Truther cultists are daft, lack a sense of humor; are ignorant and have no idea when they are being sent up, scorned, ridiculed and mocked

(6) Ignorant conspiracy devotees frequently poleaxe themselves by not fact-checking and posting articles which, far from supporting their crazy conspiracy schemes, make fun of or, completely demolish their irrational fantasies

In short, "hoax busted!" and another conspiracy fabrication bites the dust.


conspiracydebunkers.blogspot.com...

Here is the prisonplanet article:

www.prisonplanet.com...

So to me the jury is out on that one, and it is probably not too good an article to rely on, either way.


reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 07:03 AM by Strype
Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
Just try telling a debunker that Jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel. You can even provide them evidence, pull out every spec from proven scientific studies, and it won't matter...its like driving a buggy into a 300 foot thick brick wall.

By the way...jet fuel burns at roughly 1000 degreesC, while steel needs a 1500 degreeC in order to begin the melting process. Thousands of engineers have come forward to agree that it is not only statistically impossible, but, it goes against everything an engineer has learned from respected Universities and experience to accept the official theory. But, as usual, weekend warrior debunkers can pretend to have more knowledge and experience than people who have done this their entire lives.

[edit on 20-9-2009 by EvolvedMinistry]



Debunkers often don't listen because "truthers" like yourself become attached to information that isn't even relevant to the actual case. The steel didn't melt, nor did it have to. You can pull out every number in the book and it won't matter. The steel just had to weaken, and there was plenty enough heat for that. I'd throw out the numbers if I thought you would actually pay attention. However, if you're interested in finding out why the point you've just stated is nonsense then simply do some additional research. The information is plentiful.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, there are far bigger holes in the story than the jet fuel/steel argument.


Cheers,
Strype


reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 07:30 AM by daddio
Ayn Rand's ATLAS SHRUGGED contains some dialogue between bureaucrat Dr. Ferris; confronting industrialist Henry Rearden about having broken a federal regulation: . . . . .

"But, after all, I did break one of your laws." (Rearden)
"Well, what do you think they're for?" (Ferris) Dr. Ferris did not notice the sudden look on Rearden's face, the look of a man hit by the first vision of that which he had sought to see. Dr. Ferris was past the stage of seeing; he was intent upon delivering the last blows to an animal caught in a trap. "Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts 'you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is in the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live, without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there In that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted--and you create a nation of lawbreakers--and then you cash in on the guilt. Now that's the system, 'Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

In the line "...when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them; "Miss Rand unveils a vital point.
Government, you see, is in the defense/police/court business, so government's "customers" are military aggressors/criminals/civil litigants. Think about it: if there were no foreign military threat, no crime and no civil lawsuits, the government would have no "customers" and would shrink in size and authority. As Dr. Ferris acidly commented, "Who wants a nation of law abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone?" For anyone in government--nothing.

The first priority of government is to maintain a steady supply of "customers." This is easy enough to do. Remember, in the defense/police/court business, government is a monopoly. Nobody else is allowed to compete. A monopoly doesn't have to fight for a larger piece of the pie—it owns the whole pie! It has 100% market share!

The only way for a monopoly to grow bigger is to increase the size of the pie; to increase the size of the market itself. How? By creating more customers! (A baking soda manufacturer did exactly that when the decline of home baking hurt their sales. They went on a marketing offensive and pushed baking soda for alternate uses, such as cleaning, deodorizing, tooth brushing, bathing, etc.--thus increasing the size of the market itself.)

If criminals are the customers of the police and the courts, then how does government create more criminals? Create new laws which apply to new people! Laws which are all but impossible for the public to understand or obey--thus creating criminals. Or, to again quote Dr. Ferris, "But just pass the kind of laws that, can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted--and you create a nation of law breakers--and then you cash in on the guilt.

Guilt produces passivity, and makes man programmed for defeat. The importance of this for totalitarianism cannot be overemphasized. If a whole society can be made to feel guilty, it will be unable to withstand an enslaving state: it is ripe for conquest. This has long been recognized as the most successful method of rendering men passive and pliable, incapable of resistance to statist domination and control. As guilt produces impotence, it also leads people to call for more and more controls from the state. The passive population is not only malleable, yielding, submissive; it positively welcomes state intervention. The guilty, unable to solve life's problems, will be saved by the state.
--- David Chilton



From Ayn Rands book "Atlas Shrugged", to get the peope behind all the crap, just induce fear. That is the oldest trick in the book, and yes we knew the CIA and the Mossad were behind it all along. After all the FBI did arrest and detain more than 170 Israeli military personnel in this country, they were wisked away days later back to Israel. Half turned out to be demolition experts and the other half were intelligence. It is so obvious what happened and why.

[edit on 20-9-2009 by daddio]


reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 07:40 AM by titorite
Mike singh Wrote on this...

HERE

It was a big thread... I am not sure if I even commented on it....I may of once or twice.... I do see some similarities here between his idea and this one...

However for some reason his got knocked to the hoax bin...

I dont always agree with the Mod staff but still I choose not to get but hurt when I feel they make a mistake... I wish Mike felt the same way...

Good Luck talisman.

May your thread grow twice as long as his and never be moved to any other forum.


reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 08:10 AM by Echtelion
Originally posted by Exsisto
reply to post by talisman



Further, the story is extremely vague in its descriptions of source material, and where it should be citing sources by name; it doesn't. For example, the article states the former Italian President "told Italy's oldest and most widely read newspaper" he knows the truth about 9/11. What newspaper would that be??? It's not named anywhere it the article. Try finding out what "Italy's oldest and largest newspaper" is, so you can check the facts in this article. Oh, and good luck.

You think the Western media would ignore the former Italian President naming, in Italy's BIGGEST NEWSPAPER, the "Zionist world" (let's assume that means Israel) as being responsible for 9/11???



It is the Correra Della Sera, and it is indeed a major news outlet in Milano, and an old and respected one. I did the very simple search you could have done. . And HERE if you read italian. No reputable sources? Yeah right...

And yes they do seem to IGNORE this statement, although they report it. They rather focus on the accusations towards Berlusconi than the whole plot behind the thing.


Lastly, the whole thing reads like inflammatory anti-Zionist rhetoric, and this is where it really falls apart. The article quotes former Italian President Francesco Cossiga as saying, "All the [intelligence services] of America and Europe know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the Mossad, with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part in Iraq [and] Afghanistan."



Soooo...? What's the problem with being against modern zionism adn the MOSSAD, especially when these are about supporting an invasive, oppressive, terrorist State that continuously wages a racist war against arabs and muslims based on the idea that they are all potential Nazi sympatizers or anti-semites? Let's not be confused, there are indeed fascist and racist groups and movements among all those who oppose the State of Israel (and one is indeed based in Palestine) and its supporting organizations, but so there are people from a vast political spectrum, ranging from Jewish orthodox to communists, anarchist groups, liberals, democrats and civil rights activists. It's ridiculous to accuse the "911 truthers" of being anti-semitic simply because they are accusing a State-sponsored zionist organization (the MOSSAD) or having something to do with 9/11.



Yes, it's important that everyone wake up to the truth. It's also important that we not lose sight of our wits as we open our eyes. Excitability can lead to vulnerability. THINK, EXAMINE, PROCESS, ANALYZE the information you post before putting it up. It does us all a world of good.


I'd say the same of you. Did you actually verified the infos from the OP's article? I did, and it's all factual. Even that bit on the ex-member of Gladio who carries the same claims about the CIA and MOSSAD involvement. Both of these guys, him and Cossiga had a long history of being involved in Italy's secret service and the Gladio stay-behind secret army, and they have themselves participated into false-flag attacks in the '70s in order to destabilize civil order and to incriminate political dissent, including the Red Brigades. This eventually led to Cossiga's government taking into office, adn holding power for a very long time.

This is a blatant case of a conspirator showing all his cards, when the game is done... Politicians are great poker players, anyways.

[edit on 20/9/09 by Echtelion]

[edit on 20/9/09 by Echtelion]


reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 08:13 AM by autowrench
reply to post by talisman


Good post, and very credible too. Star and flag for the OP. I am left to wonder if the 9-11 conspiracy will go the way of the Kennedy assassination. Covered up so well that the truth will never be fully known.


reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 08:22 AM by john124
reply to post by talisman


Has this guy got any evidence to back up his claim? Otherwise there's nothing to debunk!

It seems that he's just giving the same speculative reasons as the truther movement.

[edit on 20-9-2009 by john124]


reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 08:27 AM by Echtelion
reply to post by john124



Well this is where the issue seems to be... as he doesn't seem to have much proofs, only that he is a reputable person given his long and deep experience in the Italian government and his own involvement in undercover operations and conspiracies. It's kind of a self-obvious truth, especially given Berlusconi's hitlerian approach to politics, but no formal proofs though. He did say that the fake Bin Laden videos were made in that TV studio in Milano, that is under hte ownership of Berlusconi, but that still doesn't stand as a verifiable fact.


[edit on 20/9/09 by Echtelion]


reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 08:31 AM by Mrwrinkleintime
reply to post by Exsisto
... Wish everyone would read pior posts, If so if they read yours this trainwreck would be over... kudos to you buddy...
Pages: <<  1    2    3    4  >>    ^^TOP^^



9-11 lecture at Basel University, Switzerland.
  Posted 14 days ago with 14 member flags
9/11 Actors re-visited
  Posted 7 days ago with 13 member flags
Wikipedia categorizes 9/11 truth as \'denialism\'
  Posted 18 days ago with 11 member flags
Building Collapses in Rio
  Posted 14 days ago with 6 member flags
new film "Human the film (2012)" covers all the bases and more!
  Posted 8 days ago with 6 member flags
you must try this youre self ????
  Posted 14 days ago with 4 member flags