Simulation shows why World Trade Center towers fell: it's the heat

reply to post by TruthParadox

But I thought the theory was that the explosions happened all at once to bring the towers down?

It was not a theory, it is a proven fact.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


I'm not claiming anything... But, again, the words of someone who was there:

"I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building cowing down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever."

This isn't someone going to 'absurd' lengths to 'deny' the 'obvious'.

And another question I would bring up about these explosions... They would have to be pretty powerful to bring a building of that size down. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the witnesses of these explosions, had they been that powerful, would most likely not live to tell about it?
If you can see a flash, you're probably fairly close to the explosion, so for the explosion to cause them little to no harm, the explosion wouldn't be powerful enough to do squat to those uber strong steel supports...
Unless I'm missing something?

I don't think this particular theory is well thought out enough...
Wouldn't the explosions, which went off before the building collapsed, be at least somewhat visible from the outside? Wouldn't windows have blown off, followed by smoke and debris pouring out? If the explosions were strong enough to do damage to the buildings, they would have been seen from the outside, and if not, they would have been pointless from the inside.

Originally posted by space cadet
6000 gallons of fuel ignited upon impact per plane. The other 4000 gallons ignited as the buildings collapsed causing the disinegration of everything in it's way. The hijackers made sure the planes were stocked full of gas, it was a priority of which planes were chosen.

Star and flag John, for bringing up the reality of 9/11.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by space cadet]

Ya SC and my stove evaporated when I cooked my steak last week

reply to post by billybob


How should I know? lol.
But I like your theory about the janitor.
From my experience, they're always to blame!

Originally posted by impressme
It was not a theory, it is a proven fact.

Well excuse me!

Originally posted by mental modulator
Ya SC and my stove evaporated when I cooked my steak last week

Sounds like a pretty futuristic stove to me.
Where'd you get it? Sears?


[edit on 19-9-2009 by TruthParadox]

reply to post by TruthParadox


A large cloud of smoke was seen around the base of the south tower shortly before it starting to ah.. go down.

Cars were blown over. There are some reports of people running around, and there being explosions all over the place, even a major one in building 6. Of course we have Barry Jennings tesimony from Building 7, testimony which may have cost him his life.

The lobby of the north tower was all blown out from explosions. Willy Rodrigues he was in one of the sub-basements and there was an explosion which lifted the floor, after which a guy came running in with his skin hanging off his arms. This was just BEFORE the North Tower impact up above.

Read through the transcripts and watch 9/11 Revisted, bearing in mind that SOME of those testimonies were of the actual buildings going down and could have been misinterpreted, but certainly not many of the others.

Explosions produce blast waves at a distance, so a firefighter running up a stairwell could get blown back from one probably pretty far away.

But there were many explosions and yes, there was white smoke at the base of the south tower shortly before it went down, rather explosively I might add.

Originally posted by john124
www.guardian.co.uk...

National Geographic has a fascinating simulation of why the US World Trade Center towers collapsed after the planes hit them on September 11 2001.

It's part of a program investigating "science and conspiracy".

channel.nationalgeographic.com...-Videos/07095_00

Basically, it's because the fuel in the (nearly-full) tanks caught fire, which weakened the columns, which bent slightly, which meant that the roof - and other floors- fell in.

What are you and National Geographic going to do about the fact that you're in direct opposition to the NIST report? Because they state virtually all of the fuel was consumed in the explosion at impact.

I was waiting for the part where they explained how the heat had equally propagated through the multiple stories to melt all those steel girders to allow them to all weaken and bend in unison to allow for such a uniform collapse , but they just ended the video on the floor of impact .

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Gun Totin Gerbil]

reply to post by bismarcksea


Your missing the fact that you can see the bottom edge of the hole bend in right before colllapse.

reply to post by impressme


Ok. What part of cognitive psychological studies is being missed here? It has nothing to do with the crediblity or lack there of the people on the scene and neither does it have anything to do with who supressed what. It's simply how the mind works, end of story. And no matter how many dodges are attempted it won't change that fact. Which is largely why I find mainstream "truther" movement HIGHLY suspect as any contrary bit of information gets marginalized by any means necessary even such silly ones as you two are attempting without even reading the material presented.


[edit on 19-9-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

posted by bismarcksea
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

 

I just happen to work with metal almost everyday.

I don't give a flipp what you think you MIGHT know about physics and the WTC incident. But when it comes to metal, those who work with it day in and day out know that the official explanation is complete BS.

reply to post by bismarcksea


Great post. Somebody who actually works with heavy steel.

Tempered structural steel beams that weigh 5 tons and more just are not affected by jet fuel or office furniture. And those structural steel beams are welded to other steel beams transferring the heat even more.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/edf353238801.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2700fab6bcbe.jpg[/atsimg]

NIST Core Column Data

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/baecb1a2ea89.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6358dd10bf4d.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/07577caa6a52.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5c8ba97f19cd.jpg[/atsimg]

And forget not that 503 WTC 1st responders ignored by the 9-11 Whitewash Commission would STILL like to testify under oath before the American people, along with their 19,000 pages of testimony describing explosions and demolition and molten steel at the WTC on 9-11.

reply to post by bismarcksea


My I ask what exactly is your job? And considering we are not talking about a torch held to the beam but a widely distrubuted fire heating the beams. Well, let's just say the dynamics of your analysis does not fit the situation. Although I do find it amusing that you think that steel inducts heat more readily across the surface than within.

reply to post by SPreston

And forget not that 503 WTC 1st responders ignored by the 9-11 Whitewash Commission would STILL like to testify under oath before the American people, along with their 19,000 pages of testimony describing explosions and demolition and molten steel at the WTC on 9-11.

I refer you once again to the cognitive studies........... And as for the rest, ha.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by impressme

Reports of Ground Shaking in the Oral Histories

Brian Becker -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 28]
We felt -- our whole building that we were in, when World Trade Center 2 collapsed, that was the first one to collapse. We were in World Trade Center 1. It was a tremendous explosion and tremendous shaking of our building. We thought it was our building maybe collapsed, there was a collapse above us occurring. It was tremendous shaking and like everybody dove into this stairwell and waited for, I guess, 20, 30 seconds until it settled, and that was our experience of the other building collapsing.
Interview, 10/09/01, New York Times

Michael Beehler -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 110]
I was by I guess the outer part of the building and I just remember feeling the building starting to shake and this tremendous tremendous like roar and I just -- I kind of didn't even notice it, but like out of the corner of my eye, I saw out of the building, I saw a shadow coming down. At that point I thought it was the upper part of the north tower that had just basically like toppled over, fell off. I didn't actually see the building part go by me, because I think I was on the opposite side. But I just remember feeling this tremendous tremendous shake and hearing this, like, noise. Again I can't describe. What I did was I ended up running out.
Interview, 12/17/01, New York Times

Jody Bell -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
I lost track of time. You start to hear this rumble. You hear this rumble. Everything is shaking. Now I'm like, what the hell could that be. I'm thinking we're going to get bombed. This is an air raid. You hear this thunder, this rumbling. Then you see the building start to come down. Everybody's like, "Run for your lives! The building is coming down!" At that moment when that building was coming down, I was strapping a patient onto a stair chair.
Interview, 12/15/01, New York Times

Eric Berntsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
That's when we heard the building start shaking. I looked up into the Marriott, because you could see up into it from where we were standing, and just saw black, like dust. I saw stuff falling off the ceiling and I saw just black dust coming down. I turned and I ran a couple of steps west, a couple of steps east, and then we turned up north, up into the concourse, because I didn't see anything falling in that area at that time. So I felt that was the safest direction to go. I jumped into a corner. The lights went out. I jumped into a corner under an archway. I thought maybe that might provide some better support. I just held my helmet. I figured we were going to get like a pancake collapse on top of us. After the building stopped shaking and there was no rumbling noise any more, Vinny Picciano of 212 regrouped the company by saying 212, regroup, get back.
Interview, 12/04/01, New York Times

David Blacksberg -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
I lost track of time of when the second building was coming down. It sounded like one big rumble, and then it just sounded like it just continued, and I was -- I wasn't really paying attention. I was looking at the sound.
Interview, 11/23/01, New York Times

Robert Bohack -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
from inside the North Tower:
We began, with the Port Authority cops, to come down the stairs. As soon as we got into the stairway, the building started shaking like an earthquake. I thought the building was coming down.
Interview, 01/09/02, New York Times

Nicholas Borrillo -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
on 23rd floor of North Tower:
Then we heard a rumble. We heard it and we felt the whole building shake. It was like being on a train, being in an earthquake. A train is more like it, because with the train you hear the rumbling, and it kind of like moved you around in the hall. Then it just stopped after eight or ten seconds, about the time it took for the building to come down.
Interview, 01/09/02, New York Times

Peter Cachia -- (E.M.S.) [Battalion 4]
I was like a little too close to the tower when it started coming down, because when I started running, I knew I was too close and I really didn't think I was going to get out of there. So about halfway up Liberty Street I saw a truck, I guess an SUV. It wasn't a police or a fire vehicle. It was just a car that was parked there. I went under the truck while the tower came down and the ground was shaking and the truck was shaking and I thought that was it for me. I thought I was done. I stayed under there until I guess everything was over.
Interview, 10/15/01, New York Times

Louis Cook -- Paramedic (E.M.S.)
I made it up onto the -- I guess you call it the concourse level, the mezzanine level, and onto the foot bridge when I started to hear -- I thought I heard an explosion of some sort, but I kind of dismissed it. I figured, ah, it's just something burning upstairs. I really didn't think of what was going on. Okay. I start going across this pedestrian bridge. I'm the only one on this bridge. I'm walking across it, and then I just remember feeling a rumble and hearing this rumbling sound that was really intense. It actually shook my bones.
Interview, 10/17/01, New York Times

Paul Curran -- Fire Patrolman (F.D.N.Y.)
North Tower:
I went back and stood right in front of Eight World Trade Center right by the customs house, and the north tower was set right next to it. Not that much time went by, and all of a sudden the ground just started shaking. It felt like a train was running under my feet.
...
The next thing we know, we look up and the tower is collapsing.
Interview, 12/18/01, New York Times

Joseph Fortis -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
T]he ground started shaking like a train was coming. You looked up, and I guess -- I don't know, it was one that came down first or two? Which one?
...
We were standing on West Street, and the ground started to shake. You looked up, and it looked like a ticker tape parade off the back of the building, because all this stuff started coming down.
Interview, 11/09/01, New York Times

Timothy Julian -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 118]
You know, and I just heard like an explosion and then cracking type of noise, and then it sounded like a freight train, rumbling and picking up speed, and I remember I looked up, and I saw it coming down.
I made it right to the corner, and there's a column right there, and I was with my guys. We all made it to like the column, and I remember it was plate glass behind me, and I'm thinking I'm going to get hit by this glass and like a porcupine. I'm going to get it, you know, but nonetheless, it rumbled.
It was the loudest rumbling I ever heard. The ground shook, and I got thrown down, and I remember it just got black, and I got knocked down. I remember geing buried.
Interview, 12/26/01, New York Times

Bradley Mann -- Lieutenant (E.M.S.)
Shortly before the first tower came down, I remember feeling the ground shaking. I heard a terrible noise, and then debris just started flying everywhere. People started running.
Interview, 11/07/01, New York Times

Keith Murphy -- (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 47]
At the time, I would have said they sounded like bombs, but it was boom boom boom and then the lights all go out. I hear someone say oh, s___, that was just for the lights out. I would say about 3, 4 seconds, all of a sudden this tremendous roar. It sounded like being in a tunnel with the train coming at you. It sounded like nothing I had ever heard in my life, but it didn't sound good. All of a sudden I could feel the floor started to shake and sway. We were being thrown like literally off our feet, side to side, getting banged around and then a tremendous wind starting to happen. It probably lasted maybe 15 seconds, 10 to 15 seconds. It seemed like a hurricane force wind. It would blow you off your feet and smoke and debris and more things started falling.
Interview, 12/05/01, New York Times

source

9/11 ORAL HISTORIES & EMERGENCY SERVICE AUDIO TAPES

After the events of September 11, 2001, the New York City Fire Department recorded 503 oral histories given by Firefighters and EMS workers who recalled their experiences that day.

This torrent includes these oral histories and some of the 9/11 audio tapes: Manhattan Fire dispatch, FDNY/NYPD communications and the FDNY Channel 30 tape. Also included is a radio show “New York Stories – 911 first responders” from Guns and Butter (KPFA 94.1 San Fransisco).

Please note that these files are graphic and emotional. Listen/read at your own discretion.

Many of these accounts contain descriptions of explosions and other phenomena characteristic of controlled demolition.

Here are some examples:

Quote:
I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought - at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.

source

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I build custom firearms from scratch. This involves that I cast, mill, heat treat and weld on a near daily basis.

If I frak up, 80,000 PSI can be catastrophically ejected into someones face along with shrapnel....thus far that has never happened.

BTW heat does indeed like to radiate at the surface. If you heat the top of a 1 inch thick plate, it will be HOT all around it but cool enough to touch underneath it unless you keep applying heat for a long time. I was using a torch as an EXTREME example of focal heat, the fuel burning was actually MUCH MUCH COOLER than a torch.

Another example, I can weld two pieces of 18 guage steel on top of a 3/4 inch plate all day long. The 3/4 plate will NOT heat up enough to even make the welds stick....making it a perfect work area. Also of note is that even though I am only welding over a couple inches of its surface, the immediate SURFACE of the table will be hot to the touch (this is called the heat zone)....but again, you can easily touch the bottom. Heat travels to the area of least resistance...and it ain't through the metal, it's on it's surface.
Following the official theory, the chamber area of every firearm built would fail after an hour of light shooting. On most firearms, the chamber is THE thickest part of steel and is amazingly THIN compared to the beams of the WTC. The fact of the matter is, I have personally shot a barrel until it was WHITE hot. It did not bend, did not fail and when cooled, still functioned 100% with 50,000 PSI along with the stress of a bullet applied with every pull of the trigger.

This is one reason that barrels are "fluted" to give them more surface area to cool. This is what I like to call "applied science" or "what REALLY happens in the world" if you don't believe me, I personally invite you to my shop to try the experiment for yourself.

Edit to add: Since you OBVIOUSLY know more about metal than I do.....what is your job?











[edit on 19-9-2009 by bismarcksea]

[edit on 19-9-2009 by bismarcksea]

Originally posted by Ignorance Denied

Originally posted by space cadet
6000 gallons of fuel ignited upon impact per plane. The other 4000 gallons ignited as the buildings collapsed causing the disinegration of everything in it's way. The hijackers made sure the planes were stocked full of gas, it was a priority of which planes were chosen.

Star and flag John, for bringing up the reality of 9/11.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by space cadet]

Yes what ever you say, what about building seven eh.. I cant believe people are still arguing about this stuff. With people like this around, the world is truly [snip]!




Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

Someone dropped a rock on it so it got pulverized.

Standard 9/11 physics. On that day, elephants could fly.


[edit on 19-9-2009 by Copernicus]

posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

I refer you once again to the cognitive studies........... And as for the rest, ha.

You know what you can do with your silly psychological cognitive studies. The meandering conclusions of a bunch of psychoanalysts and psychologists and pretend experts are worthless. These are the kind of people who get serial killers and child molesters and racists off on insanity pleas.

The 1st responders arriving after the 1st aircraft impact were not suffering from food and sleep deprivation for 48 hours followed by interrogation, and therefore your stupid study is immaterial.

I do not accept your unreasonable setting aside of all eyewitness testimonies. It is time for a real investigation into 9-11 and time for all these 503 WTC 1st responders to be thoroughly interviewed and questioned by experienced criminal investigators. (not half-insane themselves psychoanalysts and psychiatrists and psychology majors and sex gurus)

It is time for all eyewitnesses at the WTC, the Pentagon, Shanksville, FAA centers, and anywhere else applicable to be thoroughly interviewed and questioned by experienced criminal investigators.

Then it will be time for SOMEBODY to be punished for 9-11. We Americans are dis-satisfied with the lack of punishment for ANYBODY due to incompetence, desertion, treason, criminal malfeasance, aiding and abetting the enemy, or premeditated murder.

Let the noose fall where it may.

The innocent victims of the 9-11 perps deserve retribution and justice.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/63b7387179af.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by bismarcksea


That is because the heat has had a chance to radiate out. Tell me exactly how much heat is able to radiate out of an enclosed and burning structure? Particullarly when you are talking about the metal in the structure heating?

reply to post by SPreston


All comments from someone who has not read the material or perhaps doesn't understand it. But I do appreciate the confirmation of a number of theories. Thank you. Geee I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning.

I think everyone is missing the whole picture. A few years before 9/11, I remember watching a documentary on the first attack on the world trade center (1990?). Basically, they (arabs, of course) parked a truck beside a column in the garage. It blew up, but not much happened. The explanation provided in the documentary was that they placed the truck beside the wrong column; that column was there only for esthetics. They should have placed the truck by the next column, 20 feet away, as that was the only column that supported the building. If they had blown that one up, the whole building would have collapsed.

You know, I think there's a big problem with New York contractors. Another example of their shoddy workmanship is that by blowing up a backpack in the Holland tunnel (most likely on the ground because I can't see how the guy could get it to the ceiling) would breach the tunnel. Better not have an accident in that tunnel; the whole thing could collapse...

Oh, and another point about New York is its strange laws of physics which are different from elsewhere. If that tunnel would have breached, it would have flooded Manhattan. As you can see, water coming in from a tunnel can rise above sea level. I guess by building a tunnel, that badly, a few people sure put a lot of money in their pockets...

Here's a prediction; an earthquake of a magnitude of 2.2 in New York city will pulverize the city. Everything will turn to dust and disapear through a vortex into another dimension.

Originally posted by john124
www.guardian.co.uk...

National Geographic has a fascinating simulation of why the US World Trade Center towers collapsed after the planes hit them on September 11 2001.

It's part of a program investigating "science and conspiracy".

channel.nationalgeographic.com...-Videos/07095_00

Basically, it's because the fuel in the (nearly-full) tanks caught fire, which weakened the columns, which bent slightly, which meant that the roof - and other floors- fell in.

We know that from the real-life example, of course. But it's interesting to see it demonstrated here. Not, of course, that this will satisfy the wingnuts who think it was a conspiracy. Their loss.

But sometimes this is what engineering is about: figuring out why things happen after the event. (Other videos on the National Geographic site ask whether controlled demolition could have done the same job, and whether the hijacked planes were replaced by planes carrying explosives. Enjoy.)

Thank you for this post. It is very good evidence that wtc7 was destroyed via controlled demolition. If everything said about wtc1 & wtc@ is true, and all 3 building collapsed in the same fashion the only logical conclusion can be that there was similar force at work in the 3rd instance. SInce there was no impact and no jet fuel it (the force) had to come from somewhere else.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by bismarcksea

 

That is because the heat has had a chance to radiate out. Tell me exactly how much heat is able to radiate out of an enclosed and burning structure? Particullarly when you are talking about the metal in the structure heating?

At 1500 degrees from the fuel alone and a some limited contact with"cooler" sporadic residual fires?
I mean seriously, not structural damage from impact....just 1500 degrees?

The beams should have been well on their way to cooling after the high heat jet fuel was out if not at the very least stable from using the ambient air in the elevator shafts.

Even assuming that they stayed at a constant 1500 degrees the entire time, I'm trying to stress a very crucial point. 1500 degrees is a JOKE for beams that size and for that amount of time.

I work with steel every day and Im just trying to tell you what I know in the real world.




[edit on 19-9-2009 by bismarcksea]