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Islamofication: The Straw Man argument.

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posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


So what do we do?
Ignore it and hope it goes away?
My thoughts on burying your head in the sand is that it only makes it easier for someone to shaft you from behind!

I think it poses more of a threat than you think, but for the sake of this thread I'll accept that it doesn't pose a great threat, yet, so what do we do about it?


throughout these threads I have always maintained I don't know what to do about the problem. I just don't believe groups like the EDL are helping the situation.




posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


Hindu's and Sikh's are approaching EDL to work with them, hardly a racist organisation then.
The trouble at recent EDL protests have been instigated by Muslims and their UAF / Class War allies.
That this has not been reported by MSM is hardly suprising.
The government doesn't want anything to tarnish the PC image of happy clappy multi-cultural UK with everyone getting on oh so jolly well together and it's only those nasty racist English hooligans who are spoiling it.
Any deviation from this message results in the government and all it's agencies stopping the briefings that all MSM companies rely on.

I wouldn't be suprised if TPTB are the one's who are manipulating everything from behind the scene's to further their own agenda of invoking fear in people so that we actively seek the removal of our own civil liberties but I guess that is all supposition and probably for another thread.

But even so, Islamic fundamentalism poses the biggest threat we face today and some sort of coherent but practical and realistic global policy has to be adopted.
Surely that starts with solving our own domestic issues.

I can't fault you for recognising you don't have all the answers, who does?
I frequently do the same.
Some people believe that they have the answers for all the world's ill's.
If only.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 06:53 AM
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Sharia Law is the NWOs last and final tool to amass power and have total control both culturally, legally and nationally over western populations where the individual still has personal rights.

It's becoming more obvious as time goes on that it's the ultimate end game and final power grab for the ruling elite.
Instead of creating a backlash and revolution by doing it overtly, they are doing it covertly by upping the immigration of peoples from countries whose staunch religious beliefs coincide with their agenda.

It would also explain why Christianity is coming under such vile attack through all forms of media and this push for atheism lately.

Its would be a lot easier to convert an atheist (who doesn't believe in anything religious anyway) to Islam with the right rewards and benefits (it wouldn't mean anything anyway as they don't believe) that it is to convert a religious Christian to Islam no matter what benefits were offered.
Think about it....

You can see it being played out and the more time goes by, the clearer the agenda is looking.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but it's food for thought...

So after saying all that ......yes, Islamification is the Straw Man but not in the way you'd expect.......the Straw Man of the NWO to gain 10 times more control over the life of the everyday citizens, everywhere, than they ever could by other means.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 06:59 AM
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I don't think the idea of Islamofication is exactly a straw man argument. I see your valid point that the media makes the average Muslim out to be worse than they actually are by showing many more negative stories than they do positives. This unfortunately results in people showing more fear and distrust of Muslims in general, which is unfair and not reflective of how most Muslims are.

However, radical Islam has a history of starting off as a minority in certain regions and then multiplying over years to the extent that these regions adopt Islamic laws and culture. This becomes a major problem for the population because violence, intimidation and instability are used to achieve these aims in many cases.

Some people are definitely overreacting to a problem that is not nearly as large as they think (at this present time at least.) It really all comes down to respect and assimilation really. If you are born and live in country A and endeavour to emigrate and live in country B, then you must be willing to accept country B's values and identity before you do.

This does not mean you cannot name your children after your religion's final prophet, or that you cannot wear a headscarf. What it means is that you should not be going to country B with the idea of changing laws and customs of country B so that it is more alike country A from which you originally came.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 08:11 AM
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Disregarding the numbers this is a real problem with no way to stop it that I can see. They have the same legal rights to assemble, worship, protest and express themselves that all have and should have.

Violent outbursts on any part can lead to personal injury or property damage and/or legal problems. Violence will also inflame them and make their cause stronger.

Peaceful counter demonstrations might help or might be ignored but would be the better alternative (fight negative with positive). If they attack a peaceful demonstration the media may report it accurately and gain support for you or may slant it that you provoked the attack with your presence.

Which side is the Bishop of Canterbury is on?

Please see the link below. It is not comforting but it will happen. I had wanted to do something about this myself but they did it quicker and better than I could have done. I think this is extremely important and everyone needs to know about it. Not meant to flame but inform.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Flighty
Sharia Law is the NWOs last and final tool to amass power and have total control both culturally, legally and nationally over western populations where the individual still has personal rights.




Well there is an angle I hadn't thought of before.
I'm not saying it isn't true. Just never thought about it.
Thanks for sharing that. I'll have a new avenue in which to explore.

Interesting take.



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Thanks. It's only a very strong hunch that I've got after trying to find answers as to WHY and what they could get out of this.

I'd be interested to read anything you come up with. Hope you can keep me posted.



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 11:49 AM
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Hmmm. Interesting topic.

Muslims rise while Christians fall in Britain


London, Feb 1 (IANS) The number of Muslims in Britain has grown by more than 500,000 to 2.4 million in four years, according to official research collated for The Times newspaper.The population multiplied 10 times faster than the rest of society, the research by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) reveals. In the same period the number of Christians in the country fell by more than two million, the newspaper reported.

It quoted experts as attributing the rise to immigration, higher birthrate, more conversions, and a “growing willingness among believers to describe themselves as Muslims because the western reaction to war and terrorism had strengthened their sense of identity”.

According to the ONS, which gathered its data from the quarterly Labour Force Survey of around 53,000 homes, there are more than 42.6 million Christians in Britain.

However, the biggest Christian population is in the over-70s age group, while for Muslims it is among under-4s, who numbered 301,000 as of September last year.



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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I agree with the OP but to be honest i don't care anymore.
I am tried of people crying and arguing over the muslim population all the time and screaming about extremists and terrorism. It's same day in day out. People just eat it up though.

There are some horrible people in this country....i suppose there is in every country, but it just makes me sick and tried of it all.

Just incase someone tries to retort to my post by saying why don't i leave the country, well believe me, if i could i would. Don't get me wrong i don't despise the country, just at times i seriously dislike it and some of the people.



posted on Sep, 15 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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In 1932 Lebanon was 55% Christian. Generously today that figure is maybe 25%.

Main driving force of population demographic shift?

Breeding and disporia.

When you move an aggressive young fecund population into an older controlled fertility population, it isn't about embracing diversity. It is about population replacement.

[edit on 2009/9/15 by Aeons]



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:35 AM
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10,000, and you're not worried?

Mohammad Sidique Khan, Shehzad Tanweer, Germaine Lindsay and Hasib Hussain. That's 4 people. They killed 56 people and injured 700 more. 07/07/05



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 07:10 AM
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i'm saying the threat is being blown out of proportion and producing a a climate of fear which is not helpful in anyway


It is helpful to those who would have you give up your rights to congregate or privacy or the right not to be harrassed by the police because "they" are trying to protect you.

Fear is the ultimate weapon of a goverment who wants to control you. A fearful population will gladly give their DNA samples, use an ID card and tell TPTB all their movements.

They have plenty of boogeymen up their sleeves. Fear of the terrorist is just one in a long line of control mechanisms they have attemtped to use to control us for decades.



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
With the amount of thread's regarding Muslim extremists in the UK, I thought I would try and break down the numbers to expose how the fear of Muslim extremism seems to be over blown.

lets have a look at some figures. Only 3.5% of the population is Muslim about 2 million people.

Now out of that 2 million we have children, women the elderly. the we have a large group of young Muslims who have lost belief in their religion and have become westernised . You then have the vast majority of Muslims who are not militant or violent at all. They may be Devout in their belief, but they are neither violent or Militant.

So that leaves us with lets say 10,000 Muslims at the very most who can be described as violent and militant. who believe sharia law for the whole country and the Islamic flag to be flying over 10 Downing street.

10,000, about the 1/8 of the capacity of Wembley stadium. Now we have a population of approx 60 million 95% white. Do you really believe as The Daily Mail would have you believe, these militant Muslims will impose their laws on the rest of us?

It's a straw man argument that has been peddled out about different threats from different ethnic groups throughout History.

The more people buy into the fear tactics of the media the worse this situation will get. With both sides increasing their numbers.

[edit on 13-9-2009 by woodwardjnr]


Can you provide any links to where you got your figures?



posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by LuFri
 

Disregarding the numbers this is a real problem with no way to stop it that I can see.
Yeah, disregarding the numbers, what about them Australians? Coming over here with their Fosters, XXXX, cheap & nasty Chardonnay & Vegemite! Have you been to Earl's Court? Then there's a Walkabout pub in every city centre, but thats just on the surface. What about the insidious way they've got us all hooked on barbeque & soap operas? They're takin over I tell yer!
This is a real problem with no way to stop it that I can see... if we disregard the numbers.
Except that when we're talking about demographic changes, the numbers are crucial.
Hi Daisy! I'm just not even going there



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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I was reading about the EDL (English defence League) and some of their concepts make no sense to me what so ever.

1. Firstly they want to cut all funding to muslims given by the government, because they say that muslims are using this money to train extremists.
However I argue that the government should provide some form of funding, because if they don't Muslims will try and seek funding abroad. The problem with this is that there are more "extremists" abroad, and do you not think that the people who donate money to the muslims (in particular to mosques) have some say over the policies and teachings taught by mosques. I would rather that the government gave this money on conditions, so that they could say what is and isn't taught in mosques.

2. Secondly, they want to stop all permission for the so called "super" mosques being built. On the premise that these are going to be cesspits of extremism.

However I believe that the government (through organizations such as MI5) will be able to manage and monitor one big mosque more easily than 100's of small ramshackle mosques dotted all over a city. Fair less likely that extremists would slip through the net if we had super mosques.

So I basically think that this EDL is only going to cause more problems then it will solve.

But to be fair I think that the whole Muslim thing is bigged up by the media big time. There just making us scared so that we give them our civil liberties willingly. We are all being played! Muslims aren't the enemy - the politicians and organizations who take away our rights as human beings are the real enemy.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by shado101]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:12 PM
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I think its important to analyze the importance of true, strategic value to the war effort (if any) on the side of Islam.

You can bet your piggy bank that its a great way to take over.

If you have 1 child in one year.
And I have 5...

In ten years, you have, 10 children.
I have 50.

How many of those have children as well?

Current average #of children per islamic family?
8
Current average #of children per white family?
About 1.2

Think of HOW FAST... not how much, but HOW FAST they got to those numbers and ratios. Think of the history time line, all of the foreign policy, every bit of world market for the past (x) amount of years....and...you can see where its going to lead us in a number of years.

White minority by 2025.

Bet my piggy bank.
$$$$$

Problem? Of course.



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:14 PM
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Might be interesting to some:

Muslims planning event "Islam on Capital Hill" Sept 25, 2009

source: www.snopes.com...

[edit on 17-9-2009 by NJJewel]



posted on Sep, 17 2009 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by NJJewel
Might be interesting to some:

Muslims planning event "Islam on Capital Hill" Sept 25, 2009

source: www.snopes.com...

[edit on 17-9-2009 by NJJewel]


Woah!


I genuinely didn't see that coming.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by WarMind
 
IDK where you're getting your stats from but they are wrong. Is there actually anything in that piggy bank you just lost? If so, you'd best send it to me by recorded delivery.
I'm guessing you ignored my post on the 1st page, so I'll put this link up again: www.abovetopsecret.com....
From that page onward is a full discussion of the implications of the actual Office of National Statistics population figures & fertility rates.



posted on Sep, 18 2009 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by shado101
 
Well, I'm not yet fully awake, so when I followed the link, even tho it registered as Snopes.com, I just caught "True" & carried on reading; sort of like if it was a news article. Doh!
So what I genuinely didn't see coming was this bit:

As I received this news, the Lord immediately brought back to mind the words that He spoke to me quite some time ago saying, "I have strengthened Russia and China to come against America and Islam shall rise up from within America because the last three administrations have given Islam a seat of authority here in America."
Oh yeah, there's some reliable information that we should all base our opinions on right there. ROFL!
Thanks NJJewel, I dont usually get a belly laugh with my breakfast!



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