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Islamofication: The Straw Man argument.

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posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:25 AM
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With the amount of thread's regarding Muslim extremists in the UK, I thought I would try and break down the numbers to expose how the fear of Muslim extremism seems to be over blown.

lets have a look at some figures. Only 3.5% of the population is Muslim about 2 million people.

Now out of that 2 million we have children, women the elderly. the we have a large group of young Muslims who have lost belief in their religion and have become westernised . You then have the vast majority of Muslims who are not militant or violent at all. They may be Devout in their belief, but they are neither violent or Militant.

So that leaves us with lets say 10,000 Muslims at the very most who can be described as violent and militant. who believe sharia law for the whole country and the Islamic flag to be flying over 10 Downing street.

10,000, about the 1/8 of the capacity of Wembley stadium. Now we have a population of approx 60 million 95% white. Do you really believe as The Daily Mail would have you believe, these militant Muslims will impose their laws on the rest of us?

It's a straw man argument that has been peddled out about different threats from different ethnic groups throughout History.

The more people buy into the fear tactics of the media the worse this situation will get. With both sides increasing their numbers.

[edit on 13-9-2009 by woodwardjnr]




posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:29 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


OK, so why is Mohammed in the top favourite names, in Britain, for a newborn son - a name that was never in Britain?

I appreciate your point, but I am curious.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
10,000 Muslims at the very most who can be described as violent and militant. who believe sharia law for the whole country and the Islamic flag to be flying over 10 Downing street.



Well according to your own math. That would be a lot of pissed off people.
How large is the London Peace Force? Do they have that many bodybags?
I'm just curious is all.



[edit on 13-9-2009 by SLAYER69]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
10,000 Muslims at the very most who can be described as violent and militant. who believe sharia law for the whole country and the Islamic flag to be flying over 10 Downing street.



Well according to your own math. That would be a lot of pissed off people.
How large is the London Peace Force? Do they have that many bodybags?
I'm just curious just asking a question is all


[edit on 13-9-2009 by SLAYER69]


Why would we need a London Peace Force, we have the Police just like in any other nation. The police deal with crowds of 40, 000 of football fans every weekend. I'm not concerned that 10,000 Militant muslims are going to turn up in London and cause the need for body bags. I'm probably grossly overestimating with a figure of 10,000 anyway.

I'm also not saying that Militant Islam is a problem. It's just being by the media, which is inflaming the situation



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:53 AM
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You still have 10,000 people wanting Sharia Law, which aint good. That number will grow over time. I don't have a problem with Muslims coming here and being a Muslim. I have a problem with there demands and the Immigration of the UK country.

We need to make a stand now!!

Tsom87



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:55 AM
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Imagine the carnage 10,000 could create,if they put their minds to it simultaneously!
Think about that!

[edit on 13-9-2009 by scobro]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by scobro
Imagine the carnage 10,000 could create,if they put their minds to it simultaneously!
Think about that!

[edit on 13-9-2009 by scobro]


yeah but they wont, can you imagine if every football firm joined up at the same time to attack muslims? that would also be carnage, stop making up imaginary scenarios, leave that to the Daily Mail.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by scobro
Imagine the carnage 10,000 could create,if they put their minds to it simultaneously!
Think about that!

[edit on 13-9-2009 by scobro]


Exacty!

Remeber this Quote.."Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed people can change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

Tsom87


[edit on 13-9-2009 by TSOM87]



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 04:02 AM
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Originally posted by TSOM87
You still have 10,000 people wanting Sharia Law, which aint good. That number will grow over time. I don't have a problem with Muslims coming here and being a Muslim. I have a problem with there demands and the Immigration of the UK country.

We need to make a stand now!!

Tsom87


The number will grow if this division increases. what stand should we take. protesting and shouting outside Mosques during Ramadan. Yeah really good idea that should create less tension in the community.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 04:03 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr
10,000 Muslims at the very most who can be described as violent and militant. who believe sharia law for the whole country and the Islamic flag to be flying over 10 Downing street.



Originally posted by woodwardjnr
stop making up imaginary scenarios, leave that to the Daily Mail.





posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 04:04 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by scobro
Imagine the carnage 10,000 could create,if they put their minds to it simultaneously!
Think about that!

[edit on 13-9-2009 by scobro]


yeah but they wont, can you imagine if every football firm joined up at the same time to attack muslims? that would also be carnage, stop making up imaginary scenarios, leave that to the Daily Mail.


Football firms are not out to demand there own law! They are scumbag football fans out there that do break the law. These people relly in there head and heart believe in Sharia Law. It will grow over time!



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by TSOM87
You still have 10,000 people wanting Sharia Law, which aint good. That number will grow over time. I don't have a problem with Muslims coming here and being a Muslim. I have a problem with there demands and the Immigration of the UK country.

We need to make a stand now!!

Tsom87


The number will grow if this division increases. what stand should we take. protesting and shouting outside Mosques during Ramadan. Yeah really good idea that should create less tension in the community.


Am not saying people should do that, don't believe i ever did? We need a change at the top, we need a government that wants what's best for the UK and its people!



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:04 AM
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reply to post by spellbound
 


Right,

All these Mohammeds will grow up and take over the country - why do you think they are there?

Because their own countries are war-torn, and they want a nice new country.

Why doesn't anyone see that?



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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So exactly how did you come up with the figure of 10000?
Your maths just don't stand up to any credible examination whatsoever.

However, even that is irrelevant.
10,000 people working secretly to impose their belief system on the majority using ANY means necessary?
Imagine the damage 10000 German infiltrators could have caused in WWII.
Because make no bones about it these extremists will stop at nothing to impose their will.
It is a basic tenet of their faith; to pursue the advancedment of Islam and the word of Mohammed at all times.
And it is this brand of Islam that is spreading with extremists controlling and running the majority of Mosques in this country.
In areas where Muslims are in the majority there are 'No-go Areas' which our Police force turn a blind eye to due to being unwilling to upset local Muslims.
These will only increase as the Muslim population increases, soon large parts of some of our major towns and cities will be inaccessible to non-Muslims.
'Moderate' Muslims turn a blind eye to the activities of extremists as Islam dictates that no Muslim should take action against another Muslim. Muslims allegiance with Islam takes precedence over any National or even moral responsibility.

Your constant denial that Islam poses any threat whatsoever is worrying if representative of the majority in our country.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:18 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 
Good job for coming @this issue from a sensible position: S&F

If you haven't read it, the 85 shari'ah courts thread has a good debate about the same kind of scaremongering. We are getting overrun by Islam? Yet, from the ONS stats, starting on that page (15), I worked out that even if we apply the high birth rates of immigrant Pakistani & Bangladeshi women to the entire Muslim population of the UK, after 3 generations, Muslims would still only have given birth to just over half of the children of non-Muslims. This is to ignore a most important factor tho, that immigrants to the UK, including Pakistanis & Bangladeshis, have less kids here than when @ home. This is supported by the ONS reported Total Fertility Rate of 2.79 kids/woman of the 15% of UK mothers not born here, compared to TFR of 4+ @home & 1.9 of UK mothers born here, including 2nd gen immigrants.
My guess as to why there were a lot of Mohammeds last year is because we have had a wave of immigration recently & traditionally those women have their children from a relatively young age, when compared to UK averages. Currently the most fertile age group are 30-34yr olds: there are a lot of UK women who will not have their kid/s for years yet, @which point we will no doubt see a sudden rise in Harries again.
Sh!t, I hope not tho! I'm hoping for something cool like Jhared or whatever!



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


im not saying radical Islam does not propose a threat. i'm saying the threat is being blown out of proportion and producing a a climate of fear which is not helpful in anyway.

i apologize for my maths on this thread, was just trying to demonstrate the problem is not as bad as you are led to believe.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by Bunken Drum
reply to post by woodwardjnr
 
Good job for coming @this issue from a sensible position: S&F

If you haven't read it, the 85 shari'ah courts thread has a good debate about the same kind of scaremongering. We are getting overrun by Islam? Yet, from the ONS stats, starting on that page (15), I worked out that even if we apply the high birth rates of immigrant Pakistani & Bangladeshi women to the entire Muslim population of the UK, after 3 generations, Muslims would still only have given birth to just over half of the children of non-Muslims. This is to ignore a most important factor tho, that immigrants to the UK, including Pakistanis & Bangladeshis, have less kids here than when @ home. This is supported by the ONS reported Total Fertility Rate of 2.79 kids/woman of the 15% of UK mothers not born here, compared to TFR of 4+ @home & 1.9 of UK mothers born here, including 2nd gen immigrants.
My guess as to why there were a lot of Mohammeds last year is because we have had a wave of immigration recently & traditionally those women have their children from a relatively young age, when compared to UK averages. Currently the most fertile age group are 30-34yr olds: there are a lot of UK women who will not have their kid/s for years yet, @which point we will no doubt see a sudden rise in Harries again.
Sh!t, I hope not tho! I'm hoping for something cool like Jhared or whatever!



Thanks for supplying some facts, I'm afraid my effort to start this thread was a little sloppy, but hey it's Sunday morning.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:30 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


OK, I am trying to say 2 and 2 makes 4, but a lot more than that and a lot less than that makes a takeover.

The point is that Islam has moved into Britain and is taking it over.



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:33 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


So what do we do?
Ignore it and hope it goes away?
My thoughts on burying your head in the sand is that it only makes it easier for someone to shaft you from behind!

I think it poses more of a threat than you think, but for the sake of this thread I'll accept that it doesn't pose a great threat, yet, so what do we do about it?



posted on Sep, 13 2009 @ 05:40 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 

The number will grow if this division increases. what stand should we take. protesting and shouting outside Mosques during Ramadan. Yeah really good idea that should create less tension in the community.
Exactly. Lets imagine the boot was on the other foot. Muslims protesting outside a church? No. Christianity is dying on its arse in the UK; who would actually care?
No, lets imagine a protest about a piece of real British culture: getting drunk. Just imagine a Muslim protest against alcohol outside a pub... on St Patrick's Day. With this hilarious image firmly in mind, lets then consider how likely we are to ever have Shari'ah Law take over... ROFL!



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