Illmatic ill adress one prophecy at a time.

1. first of all in (no) bible does it say ten thousand, infact the guy from that website took
out an (s).

and heres proof.

I have three bibles and non of them say (ten) thousand.


KJV. Deuteronomy 33:2

"" And this is the blessing, wherewith moses the man of god, blessed
the children of israel before his death, and he said the lord came from sinai and
rose up from seir unto them; he shined from mount paran, and he came with (ten) thousand(s)
of saints, fom his right hand went a fiery law for them ""


i have the kjv right in my lap and it says ten thousands.

meaning a large amount over ten thousand. so the guy took out an s.


2. I have two catholic bibles which do not say ten thousand exactly.



so what bible says (ten) thousand because the KJV does not. nor any other bible i have.



3. the one about genesis 12:3

talks about the covanent he makes with abraham (before) the old law of moses (before) moses led them to
the holy land.

This is the (great) nation, and the (blessing) of his name.

as we see in

Genesis 12:7

"" the lord said to abraham, to thy seed i will give this land, and he built
(there) an (alter) to the lord ""

Genesis 13:12

"" abraham dwelt in the land of chanaan ""

"" and the lord said to him, lift up thy eyes, and look from the place where
thou (art), to the north and to the south, est, and west, all the land which thou seest, i will
give to thee and to (thy) (seed) (forever) ""


Ill get to the other passages until you tell me where you got (ten) thousand?

Its not in the KJV, nor DR, nor VTB.

Not once does it saay (ten) thousand exactly.

peace.

How is ten of thousands referring to more than ten thousand?

If it was more than ten thousand, it would've said more than ten thousand wouldnt it

how are you sure the s on thousands refers to more than what is written


and how many versions of the bible are there, it's ridiculous

How is mecca the great nation?

Ill prove its not by passages.

1. Mecca is located in Saudi arabia in a western city.


when infact god told abraham he will give him the land of canaan and his seed forever>


Psalms 104:11

"" To (thee) i will give the land of (chanaan), the lot of your inheritance ""


before in verse 10

"" which he made to (abraham), and his oath to isaac, and he appointed the same to jacob for a law and to
(israel) for an ever lasting testament saying......

"" To (thee) will i give the (land) of (chanaan), the lot of your inheritance ""


this cannot be mecca.

again we see in

Genesis 17:8

"" And i will give to thee, and to thy (seed), the land of the sojournment, all
the land of (chanaan) for a perpetual possesion, and i will be their god ""

It cannot be mecca.

again in

Deuteronomy 12:9

"" you shall pass over the (jordan), and shall dwell in the land the lord has given you ""

where is the jordan illmatic?

how can it be mecca?

It cannot be.

please give the guy who asked this question this thread.

peace.

How many versions? I currently have about six OT versions, 3 NT versions, one several KJ versions.(couldn't find them all) Now what am I doing with all these? Well, used them to look stuff up about god ordering infantcide, jesus ordering people to hate their families if they want him to teach them, sending fire down to kill thousands because three people there don't believe in him.

And Il67, ten of thousands means ten thousand, truth is doing his u(su)al. And anyo(n)e h(er)e for awhile knows w)ha(t the u(sual )is.

[Edited on 16-2-2003 by James the Lesser]

Oh james give it a rest.

you hate all religions so dont act like your behind the muslim cause.

do you believe god?

muslims believe god.

there you go james.

illmatic please believe what im saying when i say mecca is not the great nation, many
times god says its the land of chanaan near the jordan river to abraham and in the verses i gave, if you
dont believe me look in the bible.


Im interested in these challenges and learn more everytime i see them.

also in non of my bibles does it say ten thousand.

It says, tens of thousands or thousands of men.

the KJV says ten thousands of men.

the guy took out an s.

peace.

truth.. DUH. i know mecca is not the great nation that God gave Abraham... that land is Israel, I know that.

but Mecca is a great nation in it's own sense... it's the second holiest land in all the world and Abraham and Ishmael and Moses indeed set foot in the city of Mecca.

I only have time to look at the first one as well here goes...

You want accuracy then look at the original hebrew first...

10,000 = r@babah {reb-aw-baw'}
possibilities... 1) multitude, myriad, ten thousand

Other verses with it... href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?word=many*+07233&page=1&exact=0&perlit=&bgcolor=FFFFFF&textcolor=000000&linkcolor=0000FF&vlinkc olor=A000A0&show_strongs=yes&hr=&icon=">here

So it MAY mean more, than 10,000, this is not specific.

What about the saints part?
saints = qodesh {ko'-desh}
1) apartness, holiness, sacredness, separateness a) apartness, sacredness, holiness 1) of God
2) of places
3) of things b) set-apartness, separateness

Often used to refer to angels..
Someone said.. "ten thousands of saints--rendered by some, "with the ten thousand of Kadesh," or perhaps better still, "from Meribah"" so could refer to people from Kadesh ...

also could be part of a great story... another pserson said..

"The Jerusalem Targum has a strange gloss upon this, that, "when God came down to give the law, he offered it on Mount Seir to the Edomites, but they refused it, because they found in it, Thou shalt not kill.
Then he offered it on Mount Paran to the Ishmaelites, but they also refused it, because they found in it, Thou shalt not steal; and then he came to Mount Sinai and offered it to Israel, and they said, All that the Lord shall say we will do.íí
I would not have transcribed so groundless a conceit but for the antiquity of it."


So it seems that this verse is vague enough so that you can make your case for anything you want....

My personal comment is "Is this the best you can do?" vague scriptures from the OT that can be twisted to refer to whatever wheelbarrow you are pushing?

You mean to say is Mhammed is the person you claim he is that you ahve to look up such obscure verses to justify your claims, you mean that the prophets talked in riddles? They certainly didn't about jesus, noting his birth, life and death etc, but they have to with Mohammed?

What does that say about Mohammed that he ISN"T explicitly mentioned in the bible? That you HAVE to make inferences about him?

The reference about the 10,000 saints isnt the only one there... how about the donkey and the camel... who was the camel then?

I know Jesus was predicted, birth and death but Muhammad was predicted in the bible in many ways

Isisiah predicted that babylon (today iraq) and that a divine religion will replace her idols and gods... what's the main religion today in iraq , Islam...

if not, then what can that divine religion be?

I dont HAVE to make references about Islam and Mohammad being in the Bible because those references have already been MADE... all you have to do is look past your little chrisitian bias and your post 9-11 islam hatred and look for it because it's already there... but in your case and in truth's case that's impossible because you have been brainwashed to think otherwise.

the truth will slap you in the face and it wont leave a mark.

[Edited on 2-16-2003 by Illmatic67]

Hmm, why am I not suprised at your comments..

You don't like it when you house of cards is so easily demolished....

Ok lets look at the other verse...
Why I bother I don't know, maybe there is some vague part inside of me that you really meant it when you said that you wanted to know...

Firstly lets put things in context, (hard to do if you don't READ the bible) look at verse 15...

Jhn 12:14 And Jesus, when he had found a young a$s, sat thereon; as it is written,
Jhn 12:15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

"as it is written" is obviously referring to verse 15.

Zec9:9 - the source of verse 15 (and the OT source you are looking for) says..

"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an a$s, and upon a colt the foal of an a$s."

So there is NO connection between Jesus and the verse in Ishaih, and certainly no connection between jesus and Mohammed.

It is this sort of deliberate (it must be deliberate people cant''t be that stupid) twisting of scripture that appals me. with an ordinay bible with a commentary in 5 minutes I was able to demolish a major part of your thesis. Why did you not see it for yourself? beause you don't want to,
r>

Having shown the connection between Jesus and Mohammend to be false, should I bother to rip the rest of your post to shreds (about what Ishaih is REALLY saying) or are you just going to abuse me at this point and ignore the truth?


Truely Illumatic, as I said before Is this the best you can do?
Is this the best you can cobble together to prove mohammed in the bible?
Is you religion so deficient in biblical accuracy that this is what people are teaching you?

Do you really believe this?
Have you ever read the bible and understood it, or are you just quoting what someone else has written?because any student of the bible can and would answer as I have.

You wanted an answer, you wanted a debate I gave it to you, your emperor (mohammed) has no clothes, no legitmacy in the bible, he is not mentioned, does not exist was not even considered....



[Edited on 16-2-2003 by Netchicken]

So there is NO connection between Jesus and the verse in Ishaih, and certainly no connection between jesus and Mohammed.

well i'm looking at the verse in matthew about Jesus' return to jerusalem and there's a little thing we smart people like to call a footnote and on the bottom of pages are where footnotes are and these little things called footnotes tell me to refer back to the verse in Isiaiah referring to the rider on a donkey and the rider on the camel.

should I bother to rip the rest of your post to shreds

why dont you stop with the little instigating a playground fight.... i'll make you put your pride on the rocks and make you swallow it all you little girl.

3. Babylon is not iraq

do i have to say anything about this?

truth, look in any enclycopedia.. it will say babylonia was in modern day iraq.

[Edited on 2-16-2003 by Illmatic67]

I am extremely interested in the bible version you are reading as NONE of the bibles I have and use, nor any of the online ones I consulted EVER mentioned that. It is always Zech 9.9.

Is your the "bible for muslims who want to be seen as legitmate in the eyes of christians?"

You don't like it when you are attacked do you? I wasn't instigating a playground fight, (of which you would also be outclassed in) you make claims about mohammed in the bible and when the crunch comes and you show your cards what do we see? Misquotes, distortions and vagaries.

Attempts to show islam and mohammed in the bible do nothing more than display the deceit, falsehood and distortion that is islam.

Originally posted by Illmatic67
well i'm looking at the verse in matthew about Jesus' return to jerusalem and there's a little thing we smart people like to call a footnote and on the bottom of pages are where footnotes are and these little things called footnotes tell me to refer back to the verse in Isiaiah referring to the rider on a donkey and the rider on the camel.

[Edited on 16-2-2003 by Netchicken]

I am extremely interested in the bible version you are reading as NONE of the bibles I have and use EVER mentioned that. It is always Zech 9.9

funny, I only thought there was one Bible.. how can we be reading different versions of the bible? I thought christianity was the truth, but if it's the so called truth how comes there's revised versions of the first revised versions.


you claim Islam is deceitful, I can tell you know nothing about Islam..

you want to talk about deceit... then it's christianity that's deceitful with the numerous of bible versions.

How can you have a revised revised version of the bible? Why has the bible gone through so many changes and the qur'an remained the qur'an from when it first started? hmmm...

And would you not have thought, Net-C that the three days' march alluded to in Numbers ( there are frequent references to Paran -not just in Deuteronomy!! fro Genesis to Habakkuk) would have made it pretty obvious that, unless they were on steroids, they would not be arriving in Mecca?

Well, I have four OT, three NT, and several KJ versions all different.

And of course they aren't the original versions. The bible has been edited by thousands of people millions of times. And is that picture of Malcom X? How dare you do such a thing to him NC. I don't agree with his ideas, but Malcom X was a great leader.(sorry, just don't get why we celebrate MLK day but no MX day hen they both helped the blacks)

James, peace to you

Don't worry why Net disrespects Malcolm X...

in his defense, net is a little bitch, that's why he does so.

Dearest illmatic, I know where you come from thats what you say to your partner as a term of affection .. but we are not a gay couple in San Fransisco.

Please rise above such terms of endearment and try and keep this debate on a more professional level. You can bitch-slap me later duckie if you wish, if it turns you on.

Back with the topic do you have any more places in the bible where Mohammed is meant to be? (maybe hiding in the spine or under the flyleaf)

I am bored and would like another challange...



[Edited on 17-2-2003 by Netchicken]