Similarities Between Bush & Obama.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


A leader who makes mistakes, makes mistakes because he's a human and not necessarily because he has evil intentions.

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What I meant to point out with my participation in this thread is that if one says anything good about Bush one is quickly associated with being a supporter of murderers and whatnot.

Elsewhere, saying anything good about Obama and one gets attacked in a similar manner.

Its the hive-mind in action.

[edit on 8-9-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating

I used to think 9/11 was an Inside-Job, but reading the 9/11 Forum for awhile, I now tend to think it was not. Spend a few years reading this site and examining the sides and you might change your mind.

What's with the deflection? I wasn't aware I was speaking of 9/11.

It's fact that the Iraq war was in the planning stages since '98 under the Clinton administration, though I don't see how that had anything to do with 9/11 since it happened 3 years prior.

Spend a few years reading this site and examining the sides and you might change your mind.

I've spent almost 3 years (almost 2 and a half if it officially starts the day i registered) on ATS examining both sides, but a lot of questions still go unanswered, and that in and of itself says a lot.

To say Bush is only human and makes mistakes isn't really fair, he was only the most powerful man in the world for almost a decade so there isn't really room for error, especially all the f ups he's made throughout his terms, those would fall far from mistakes.

"I'm sorry I led you to war on false pretenses that killed hundreds of thousands, I'm sorry about the huge deficits, i'm sorry that America got attacked on September 11th on my watch, i'm sorry about the huge disaster that Katrina was, i'm sorry for helping to bring in the era of government bailouts, i'm sorry government expansion has increased so much in the past 8 years, etc." I could go on all night, but i'll leave it at that. Sorry Bushy Boy, you went too far and there is no going back, even if you were a puppet you got played and that's your fault, you had your chance to make your mark on America and what a mark you left and it will be something that all Americans despise you for until the day our great Nation comes to an end.

This video always made me lol:



[edit on 9/8/2009 by Uniceft17]

[edit on 9/8/2009 by Uniceft17]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I guess we will see. Or do you think it's a fact already? Do you not hold any hope at all for a better future? Is all lost?

It is a fact. I was told so by three career lobbyists lamenting their jobs, but not being able to do much about it, since they needed their jobs.

There is no hope for the american political system within the realm of voting and pleading with our representatives. Our voices and votes matter no more.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Under no circumstances do I advocate the "giving up" of any such resistance to the long-corrupted system we now serve. My intent is to highlight my opinion that any attachment of the hope for change to this system is futile. There can be no change as long as "we the people" serve the republic of lobbyists.

I happen to know a little something about this area...

Perhaps it is all a matter of perspective.

You see lobbyists as the agent of disease, whereas I tend to see them as the symptom of disease.

Maggots don't cause meat to spoil. They just come for the feast...

The problem lies with the electorate...a culture who is generally too far removed from the direct experience of oppression and tyranny and one who refuses to learn the lessons history teaches. If there is any failing in the system, it is that it cannot protect us from the soft and careless minds of the electorate or the brain-dead or dishonest people they elect.

Look at legislative bodies all across the country. Why are they on any given day mostly empty....places where perfunctory speeches are made to thin groups of staffers and congressional employees?

Coincidentally, remember this picture from this week?



The only shocking thing about that photo is the degree to which the public fails to understand how such things are repeated in nearly every deliberative body in this nation.

...legislators who don't read bills...

...judges and jurors who listen to iPods during court cases...

...voters who pull the lever simply based upon a (D) or an (R) without knowing anything else about the candidates they are voting for (if they even bother to vote)...

Lobbyists are not to blame.

Daft and corrupt legislators are not to blame.

We are to blame. Plain and simple.

Until we figure out how to FIX THAT, there is little hope for improvement.

I have often said that it is the height of American arrogance to believe that we have somehow in the last 200 years figured out how to run a political system that ensures freedom and prosperity with little effort. In 6000 years of recorded human governance, that has never been largely achieved. Yet, we somehow think we have the magic mojo without the work, don't we?

At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powel anxiously awaited the results, and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished, asked him directly: "Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" "A republic if you can keep it" responded Franklin.

Link.

It's beginning to look like we can't.

[edit on 8-9-2009 by loam]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by jsobecky
Voters still do matter, regardless of the immense power of the lobbyists. There are documented wins in the past few years that have been won by the diligence of the electorate.

What "wins" might those be? And I'm referring to actual change in the form of new programs or laws the benefit society. Sure, we may surprise the power-brokers from time to time by placing some unexpected name on the nameplate outside a Congressional, Senate, or executive door... but once they're seated in the office on which the name is post, the influence of money takes over.

I'll give you one good example: the Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity and Immigration Reform Act of 2007 (S. 1348). It was thwarted because of widespread public opposition and dissent.
en.wikipedia.org...

I would say that the current health care reform proposals are being held back because of popular opposition.

I realize that the lobbyists wield much power. But to use that as a reason to give up the fight for our freedom is not in *my* personal constitution. They are just another hurdle that we need to overcome. Just because they wield influence today does not mean that they will always have that power.

Under no circumstances do I advocate the "giving up" of any such resistance to the long-corrupted system we now serve. My intent is to highlight my opinion that any attachment of the hope for change to this system is futile. There can be no change as long as "we the people" serve the republic of lobbyists.

And if I implied that, I apologize. You would be one of the very last to give up, imo. My statement was meant for those who might incorrectly take it as a call to wave the white flag.

Originally posted by loam
Let's not forget, the peril is not just Obama. It's huge portions of our population that have plain and simple lost their minds.

That is so true.
I'm going to have to use that in my signature block.
You'll be getting a U2U from me asking permission.

reply to post by Uniceft17


Criticizing Bush is fine...as long as you then dont do what most people around here do: Champion the tyrants of Iran, North Korea, etc. as "liberators". You get suspicious of anti-Bush-sentiment when its coming from jihad-warriors and communist-regimes rather than the unbiased.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Uniceft17

 

Criticizing Bush is fine...as long as you then dont do what most people around here do: Champion the tyrants of Iran, North Korea, etc. as "liberators". You get suspicious of anti-Bush-sentiment when its coming from jihad-warriors and communist-regimes rather than the unbiased.

Random!?

Anyways back on topic. I'm very anti-bush but not in a Iran and North Korea sense, Where the heck did that come from? I've been against just about all of his policys, the man did nearly nothing right, and even when he did go into it with good intentions in mind (no child left behind) he still managed to some how f things up. Sorry but the man was terrible, period.

Well what are ya'll going to do about it?

I'm a foreigner, so I can leave this country at any moment especially when it gets bad.

What can you do?

reply to post by loam


That was one of the most profound things I've heard in a very long time here! You have hit the nail on the head. Not only that but you drove it home into the wood in one blow. What we need is a grassroots movement oust these jackholes and put in regular, hard working common folk! And term limits too! Why do we only allow someone to be President for a maximum of 10 yrs., but some crony can stay in Congress for decades! And to hell with the political party system, nothing but Independents! Outlaw lobbying would be another great step.

My only regret is that I cannot give you more than a star...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Thank you for the compliment.

Here is a funny example I ran across tonight:

Congressman: the more we owe, the wealthier we are


Pretty much makes my point, doesn't it?

reply to post by loam


Wow! Just Wow!

Can you believe that jerk?

Such a condescending, rude a-hole.

How did he ever get elected?

Originally posted by Uniceft17
Anyways back on topic. I'm very anti-bush but not in a Iran and North Korea sense, Where the heck did that come from? I've been against just about all of his policys, the man did nearly nothing right, and even when he did go into it with good intentions in mind (no child left behind) he still managed to some how f things up. Sorry but the man was terrible, period.

Pedestrian belief-systems often miss the big picture of international policy.
Most Presidents act upon whats good short-term and wins popularity-contests.
This President did not care about popularity (worst approval ratings in History) but about long-term issues of the next 50 years.

I used to be more anti-Bush, but when I saw 85% of the worlds population bash him, I re-examined what he did. People think bashing Bush is anti-mainstream, but actually its totally mainstream and its engineered by the msm.

Im not discounting the possibility that 9/11 was an inside-job, but I would not assume it as "absolute fact".

Originally posted by Skyfloating

This President did not care about popularity (worst approval ratings in History) but about long-term issues of the next 50 years.

All I can see for the long-term is a depression that America and the Dollar itself may not survive. A 9 trillion dollar deficit Bush left us (may even be higher), 2 wars that should have never been waged that cost countless lives and trillions of dollars. More bureaucracy and a massive expansion of government. Katrina. Enough said.

Tell me exactly what Bush did that helped America in the long-term?
I still can't believe you are defending the guy.

Im not discounting the possibility that 9/11 was an inside-job, but I would not assume it as "absolute fact".

Again, I don't assume it as absolute fact, but the countless questions ignored by the government and the 9/11 commission makes me think that something is definitely up, that itself makes the official story look like bs in my book.

its engineered by the msm.

Sorry but it's not engineered by the MSM, that's a classic excuse. Bush I think did a good job all by himself by making the world hate him.

[edit on 9/9/2009 by Uniceft17]

Something else I just came across by accident.

We've probably all heard by now about Obama's 'citizen corps.' If not, here is a quick run down about the proposal that has already passed in the house and is angering many citizens:

en.wikipedia.org...

I didn't know this but Bush did something similar:

In January 2002, President George W. Bush launched the USA Freedom Corps to promote volunteer service opportunities within the United States and abroad. Created within months of the September 11, 2001 attacks, the program sought in part to encourage volunteer participation in homeland security. Citizen Corps, a component of USA Freedom Corps, was developed to help coordinate such volunteer activities and to increase the capacity of American communities to respond to any emergency situation. The program's goal is to provide opportunities for people to participate in a range of measures to make their families, their homes, and their communities safer from the threats of crime, terrorism, and disasters of all kinds.

en.wikipedia.org...

Going even further back, it looks like it was originally started by Clinton in 1993, expanded by Bush, now being expanded by Obama:

AmeriCorps is a U.S. federal government program that was created under President Bill Clinton by the National and Community Service Trust Act of 1993. Later expanded by 50 percent under President George W Bush.

en.wikipedia.org...

Baby steps?

reply to post by Uniceft17


As not to derail the purpose of this thread, I created my own: Tyrants who love conspiracy theories