Similarities Between Bush & Obama.

For me, Obama showed his true colors when he voted for retroactive immunity from FISA as a senator.

Our country has shown itself to have a multi-tiered system of laws. These days it is distasteful to even investigate crimes perpetrated by those in true power.

reply to post by AshleyD


I can see your point, and to tell the truth, I'm not optomistic on either. I was only pointing out that it is too early to tell the overall effects of both. Too early to jump on either 'band wagon' yet, lest you risk eating a healthy portion of 'crow'.

Best Political Thread of the Year. Well done Ashley.

However, the consensus on ATS seems to be that they are both terrible, while I think they are both fine and just trying to do their job under difficult cirumstances. Leftists had the "hate Bush" thing going on for awhile, now Rightists have the "hate Obama" thing going. I dont support the "lets hate the President" movement.

Greetings from the Center.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by Skyfloating]

great thread, i wanted to do this but had no idea how to begin and knew it would be much research and info.. good job

Good thread very enlightening. I did not know Bush has "czars".

Originally posted by AshleyD


But the ultimate point is that under both administrations the American taxpayers were betrayed, used, and cheated. The bills collectively are costing the taxpayers billions of dollars.

Or we could say Bush was more associated with lobbyist group A while Obama is more associated with lobbyist group B as if it makes a difference. But the fact remains they are both controlled by lobbyists. Or we could break down the section about protests, surveillance, the Middle East, etc. to point out minor differences between each.

Absolutely. That's how I feel too.

It doesn't seem to matter who is where.. all this crap gets passed...but I keep myself from doing the total "They're all the same" because I do have to acknoweldge that the core conservative gop reps in the House have consistantly fought against TARP, Auto Bailout, Stimulus, Budget Extension, Cap and Trade, and State Run Medicne

The Democrats complained nearly constantly about Bush's budget and what do they do instantly? They nearly quadruple it.

It sucks that the only alternative to these insane Democrats are gutless sell-out Republicans. And it sucks that for all they complain about, that Democrats never seem to hold to their side the things they complain about on the other side.


[edit on 6-9-2009 by VinceP1974]

The greatest problem the USA has imho, is it's psyche, which was SEVERELY abused during the Bush administration. For me the jury is still out on Obama, but I'm at a loss as to why he hasn't repealed all those laws and executive orders written and signed into law during the Bush years. Obama ought to have made a display of reversing those laws and undoing those abuses of power, as a demontration of what he stands for.

But the American people are dumbed down and abused, and the division between left and right appears to be morphing into a full blown national mental illness now, and the rhetoric has taken on the form of a school yard quarrel.

If I were an American citizen I would be VERY embarassed.

OUTSTANDING! Someone in Mod-Land needs to give AshleyD a bunch of applause for this thread. If we still had WATS I'd be hitt'n that button for this thread.

The last two years of Bush's 8 years in office were especially troublesome.
Obama picked up where Bush left off - spending America into extinction.

Bush was a Cheney-tool.
Obama is someone's tool but we don't have a face to the puppetmaster yet.

The fact that both had/have agendas outside of that which the US population would approve of is VERY clear.

One thing more they have in common.... WIDE OPEN BORDERS
For some strange (*cough* NWO) reason, all the POTUS' have left the borders wide open and have ignored the security risks and the financial drain wide open borders cause for this country.

AshleyD

reply to post by FlyersFan

The last two years of Bush's 8 years in office were especially troublesome.

That's very interesting you say that because in 2006 was around the time I began to notice something wasn't right with him. For the previous years I was an outspoken Bush supporter and he could do no wrong. Then little by little I began to understand where others were coming from.

It was a very weird feeling to come to that realization but it did give me a unique position to see how differently you are treated in support and in opposition. Looking back with hindsight I can see all 8 years were troublesome but it was those last two years that really slapped me in the face.

One thing more they have in common.... WIDE OPEN BORDERS

I can't believe I missed that one! There were others briefly mentioned in the bottom conclusion I didn't have character space to get into but I completely forgot about that one. Thanks for adding that.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Obama is someone's tool but we don't have a face to the puppetmaster yet.

George Soros

reply to post by AshleyD


While I admire the hard work that went into the thread, I don't think you're going to change anything. Yes there are many posts that state "Bush did it, why can't Obama" or something along those lines.

But this is just deflection. There are those that try to justify Obama's actions/decisions soley because a previous president did the same.

To be frank, I am as guilty of criticizing Obama over the same things Bush did as most because I came to the realization late in the Bush administration. It's one of the reasons I joined ATS.

It was my own "come to jesus" moment. Bush was bad. He did bad things. I know. I get it. I still don't think he's as bad as Obama, however.

It just doesn't change my criticism of Obama. If I see something wrong, I will write about it. (I'm a contributing editor on another site)

Justifying it because another administration did the same thing is just plain silly.

Mike

reply to post by mikerussellus


Hi, mikerussellus.

I actually agree with you. Not sure if we're misunderstanding each other but that is the point of this thread. We shouldn't resort to 'But they did it.'

And it's OK to be critical- absolutely. That is our responsibility as citizens to dissect, vet, research, and be vocal when we see something wrong. So this thread in no way is intended to silence anyone. It's only purpose is to have us reflect on our intentions when we do speak up.

Are we becoming defensive because a politician we support is on the chopping block? Do we read a news story about a politician we don't like and automatically try to find something we can nail them with?

Contrary to reasoned, fair criticism or defense that is always necessary.

[edit on 9/6/2009 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by mikerussellus

But this is just deflection. There are those that try to justify Obama's actions/decisions soley because a previous president did the same.

To be frank, I am as guilty of criticizing Obama over the same things Bush did as most because I came to the realization late in the Bush administration. It's one of the reasons I joined ATS.

It was my own "come to jesus" moment. Bush was bad. He did bad things. I know. I get it. I still don't think he's as bad as Obama, however.

It just doesn't change my criticism of Obama. If I see something wrong, I will write about it. (I'm a contributing editor on another site)

Justifying it because another administration did the same thing is just plain silly.

Mike

I have a slightly different perspective on Bush. I personally believe his first term was practically aces. Once he started down the road to Iraq, I saw a dramatic change in his philosophy and attitude. Around the end of his first and the start of his second term, I saw a brand new George Bush burst to the surface. Instead of focusing on Afghanistan as the main war, he switched plans under the flag of vengeance. Bush even went on tv stating, "Saddam was the guy who tried to kill my daddy." It seemed kind of juvenile at the time, so I quickly dismissed the comment. It did start a small spark.

Obama took advantage of everyone's bottomed out morale. As a result of hearing a different tune, many conservative and independent voters jumped ship. I think people voted for another radical. Obama is very socialistic in nature. Voters didn't care about Obama's actual philosophy. Since it was something different from what they heard for the last 8 years, they jumped for an opportunity to remove the Republican administration. Many-many people are still blinded by Obama's flashy rhetoric approach. There is a danger in hiring someone without them defining who they are. As we are seeing being played out on tv and online, Obama is using a very radical socialistic approach to government.

I am not sure who is really worse. Bush's second term abuse of military power, or Obama's abuse of domestic socialistic policy. Bush and Obama are the same individual; however, they are working on two different ends of the spectrum.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by AshleyD
That's very interesting you say that because in 2006 was around the time I began to notice something wasn't right with him.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
The greatest problem the USA has imho, is it's psyche, which was SEVERELY abused during the Bush administration.

This stuff keeps getting repeated as if it were an irrefutable, universal fact, but there are many of us who dont at all feel abused, much less "severely".

For me the jury is still out on Obama, but I'm at a loss as to why he hasn't repealed all those laws and executive orders written and signed into law during the Bush years.

Because Obama sees the big picture, as does every President.

But the American people are dumbed down and abused,

Speak for yourself.

and the division between left and right appears to be morphing into a full blown national mental illness now, and the rhetoric has taken on the form of a school yard quarrel.

There are many of us who dont play the divisive game.

reply to post by AshleyD


Apologies. It was a misinterpretation. I read the title and that appeared to colour my perspective.

More than anything else, though, from what I read is a sense of hopelessness. Forgive me if I can't fully buy into the NWO, Illuminatti, or TPTB. I still feel we have the power to enact change. And the more knowlegable we become, the smarter that change can be. We can learn from the mistakes made by Bush (TARP) and from the mistakes made by Obama (everything).

As for George Soros, we can send him out on his ear.

reply to post by Skyfloating


That you don't see it, it's perhaps even more indicative of the depths of the problem I was referring to.