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To those against Socialism and the Feds

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posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 05:13 AM
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It hasnt struck to many that the Feds were the one so eagerly fighting and brainwashing generations against Socialism (and communism) , simply because it doesn't suit their business (or enslavement) model.

I think it is important to point out. So many people have grown up with the ideals:
My dollar is my dollar, socialists must not put their hands on my hard earned dollars.
Yet they dont mind paying taxes to the Feds? You are either for or against sharing your wealth. So yeah it doesn't make sense.
So before you bash socialistics ideals, think twice look at what is already in place.

Peace

[edit on 28-8-2009 by TheOracle]




posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 05:31 AM
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I have never been excited about paying taxes, but I have to.

If we were to shift to socialism or communism it would only be taking more of what I work for. It would be different if things did not cost money but they do and I will take care of me and my family before anything else.

I have a responsibility and most are not part of that.

Don't get me wrong, I donate time and money WHEN I CAN but that is not my responsibilty. Do you kind of understand what I am saying, honestly don't know how clear I made this



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 06:44 AM
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I think most of us don't mind paying a little bit of a tax that would fund our military and the electric bills at the state capitals. But things have gotten out of hand when trillions go missing , or the black budget spends thousands of dollars on a hammer, or that all politicians are fat and rich . ( they should be paid no more than a school teacher). We all need to pitch in a little to make our community/country/world a better place. And can do that without the FED. I can't wait to see that virus removed from this country.
Ohh yeah, 4 out of 5 ATS'ers surveyed don't want Socialism.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 06:50 AM
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The Fed is unconstitutional.

I think most capitalist will agree that what has been in place for some time is not capitalism, rather fundamental corporatism.

There is a reason they had to sneak the 16th amendment in, there is a reason the American people have been tricked into accepting it. It's called our politicians selling us out to central bankers.

The central banks are an argument that goes back to our founding fathers. Read the federalist and anti-federalist papers.

But you seem like someone pretty confident in socialism. I like to ask this question to those who are: Why? Why will socialism work?



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 06:54 AM
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Ever look at your paycheck before taxes and after?
That's if you still have a job. It has gotten to a point where people are barely keeping their heads above water, or are slipping through the cracks and are homeless. All the while government is wasting money.

American's are looked at as selfish and greedy, yet we have helped other countries, our people are generous with donations of food and clothing etc. to the poor. It has come to a point where we cannot afford to do the things we used to. With so many people unemployed or making much less than previously, there is nothing left to donate. We are taxed to death.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 06:55 AM
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Yes, these are good points. Much of the debate about defending the constitution against the emerging socialist threat is "bread and circuses" or a reality show called politics

The United States government has not resembled the ideal outlined in the 1789 constitution, since the end of the Civil War

The Bankruptcy and Re-organization of 1861-1871.

In 1861, legislators from seven Southern states left the floor of Congress, which put the Legislative branch without a quorum (a state of flux). Lincoln enacted an Executive Order re convening Congress at gunpoint with emergency/martial law powers. Since that time there has been no dejure of Congress and all functions of the Government has functioned under Emergency Rule/Martial Law through Executive Order. At the end of the Civil War, the Federal Government was heavily indebted and bankrupt due to the war. Two undereported or misunderstood events in the history of the United States took place within a six year span after the war. The first one was in 1868, when the 14th Amendment was passed to validate the existing debt to international financiers. The 14th Amendment in short order placed all commerical, military, private and international assets of the United States into a Incorporated Trust existing within the state of War Powers.

Amendatory Act of 1933

The Amendatory Act of 1933 (along with the Trading with the Enemy Act), the powers of the Presidency were greatly expanded beyond the traditional powers given to the position via the Constitution. Although there was no enemy present at that time, it was necessary because the Government had become an Administration for the Creditors in the bankruptcy proceedings initiated by President Roosevelt. Here's a snippet of the Amendatory Act below:


"The actions, regulations, rules, licenses, orders and proclamations heretofore or hereinafter taken, promulgated, made, or issued by the President of the United States or the Secretary of the Treasury, pursuant to the authority conferred by subdivision (b) of section 5 of the Act of October 6, 1917 as amended, are hereby approved and confirmed.”


Basically, what this means is that President in whatever action he takes is automatically "confirmed and approved" and by the full force of the Government. Title 12 United States Code 95 (a) states: “(a) In order to provide for the safer and more effective operation of the National Banking System and the Federal Reserve System [indicating that the President acts for, on behalf of, and under the direction of the Federal Reserve]... , during such emergency period as the President of the United States by proclamation may prescribe, ...” A National Emergency has been in constant effect for over 140+ years and every President has issued Executive Orders under Title U.S.C. 95.

So, my take is that the 80 year span between Lincoln's Civil War and Rooselvelt's WWII the sovreignity of the US was absolved by the conversion of the the government from a constitutional republic to a democratic republic

The democratic republic has been since co - opted into a national socialist state by controlled populace voting.

Democracy's greatest flaw is that 51% of the people can take the rights of 49% of the people.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what is for dinner

The original constitutional republic was lost years ago.

It may be futile to engage in debate about saving what has already been lost, but people still have the right to be entertained by all the excitement

The constitution was always a government tool even in its original form.

It is the Declaration of Independence which best describes your individual rights, which are not granted by any government.

The US Constitution only provides for what the government cannot legislate against. YOUR RIGHTS ARE NATURALLY BORN WITH YOU, GRANTED BY YOUR CREATOR AND ARE UNALIENABLE FROM YOU

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
YOU CAN ONLY VOLUNTEER TO GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS, SO ITS REALLY UP TO YOU...GOOD LUCK !



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 07:08 AM
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People who protest taxes are the true communists, as a communist you protest the rich, since tax money disappear into the pockets of the rich, by refusing to pay taxes you seek communism.
Liberalism and conservatism is a trick to make us think that by being liberal you are more social inclined to give your money away to the poor, where in fact tax money go directly into unknown pockets.

[edit on 28-8-2009 by wrill]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by wrill]



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 07:10 AM
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Thanks for the replies.

I believe that if the health reform bill is passed, most americans wont see the difference in the paycheck they receive. I believe tptb want the people to keep the little buying power they have left.
The only difference is in people's minds, they will feel robbed by socialists because the tax money is used to help others when they didnt mind their tax money was used to bomb others.

All in all feds or scoialists all the same thing, they want YOUR money to do THER things. I rather trust a socialist because it is going in things like social improvements. Ideally.

I know many dont trust the govt to spend it wisely and only make things worse, but health is one of a human being pillar with shelter, water and food so in my opinion it's worth trying.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 07:26 AM
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Those who want your money are not socialists.... Can you get it through your head please?
Socialist is one who will share his money with you.

Take money = not socialist
Give money = socialist

Current government = not socialist


[edit on 28-8-2009 by wrill]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by wrill]

[edit on 28-8-2009 by wrill]



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 07:29 AM
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reply to post by TheOracle
 


Just where do you suppose the money will come from?
Social Security- Broke
Medicare- Broke
Medicaid-Broke
Veteran Affairs-Broke
US Postal Service- Broke
Now, do you honestly believe, put aside your political ideas for a moment, and just think, do you believe that these inept bureaucracies can possibly run a program for 300 million people?
There are not enough wealthy people in the US to fund this HUGE, GIGANTIC program with their tax dollars. The working class has been crapped on over and over, and that's where the money will come from once again. Like it always has. Wake up man!!!
Keep thinking the way you do, and if you lose someone in your family because they were lost in the masses, you will have no one to blame but yourself, because you let the government take over.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by sickofitall2012
 


Most social health care systems in the western world are broke or in the red. but they would never get rid of it because it works and its good.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 08:31 AM
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Something that really makes me laugh, is the thousands of senior citizens who appear at these town halls and elsewhere, all screaming about not wanting "socialism", or rather, what they have been scared into believing is socialism.
Almost all of them are living a more socialist life than nearly anyone else in America.
They receive money from the government, they receive health care from the government, yet they scream about the evils of what they perceive as "socialism" running rampant in America.
And don't tell me that it's "their money", that they paid into it all their lives and so it's just their money that they're receiving.
Seniors, on average, receive approximately 3 or 4 times the benefits in health care than they've paid into over the course of their lives.

It's shameful to frighten the elderly in order to get them to do your screaming and fighting against somethingthat you are against for political or idealogical reasons.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by uaocteaou
 


The big difference here is that they have been paying into the system for their entire working lives. They are merely getting back what the put into the system. I suggest you guys do more reading and stop following the press.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by TheOracle
 


If it works so good, then why are there so many people warning the US not to do this. Can you get the proff that shows how great that system is? When will people realize that less government and more freedom is better? Too lazy to earn their own way, is that it?



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by NWRHINO
Yes, these are good points. Much of the debate about defending the constitution against the emerging socialist threat is "bread and circuses" or a reality show called politics

The United States government has not resembled the ideal outlined in the 1789 constitution, since the end of the Civil War

The Bankruptcy and Re-organization of 1861-1871.

In 1861, legislators from seven Southern states left the floor of Congress, which put the Legislative branch without a quorum (a state of flux). Lincoln enacted an Executive Order re convening Congress at gunpoint with emergency/martial law powers. Since that time there has been no dejure of Congress and all functions of the Government has functioned under Emergency Rule/Martial Law through Executive Order. At the end of the Civil War, the Federal Government was heavily indebted and bankrupt due to the war. Two undereported or misunderstood events in the history of the United States took place within a six year span after the war. The first one was in 1868, when the 14th Amendment was passed to validate the existing debt to international financiers. The 14th Amendment in short order placed all commerical, military, private and international assets of the United States into a Incorporated Trust existing within the state of War Powers.


Autowrench:
Thank you, NWRHINO, for this post. i was beginning to think I was the only one who knew about this, and the only one who still held firm to the Constitution of 1787, the "real" or "dejure" Constitution, and not the "defacto" "fake" one. The fact is, instead of actually freeing the slaves, Lincoln made us all slaves to the corporation, then when the FED came along, it was all set in stone, and has been that way ever since. We have been under Martial Law since 1861, make no mistake about it.

The following points are based upon factual historical evidence:

In 1863, Lincoln instituted martial law. He ordered that the States (people) either conscribe troops and provide money in support of the North, or be recognized as an enemy of the nation. This martial law Act of Congress is still in effect today - what it means is that the President has dictatorial authority to do anything that can be done by the government in accord with the Constitution of the United States of America. This is the foundation of Presidential Executive Orders.

The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871 created a private corporation (hereinafter "Corp. U.S.") owned and operated by the actual government for the purpose of carrying out the business needs of the government under martial law. This was done under the constitutional authority for Congress to pass any law within the ten mile square of Washington, District of Columbia.

In said Act, Corp. U.S. adopted their own constitution (United States Constitution), which was identical to the national Constitution (Constitution of the United States of America) except that it was missing the national constitution's 13th Amendment. The national constitution's 13th, 14th and 15th amendments are respectively numbered 14th, 15th and 16th amendments in their constitution.

The corporation began to generate debts via bonds etc., which came due in 1912, but they could not pay their debts so the 7 families that bought up the bonds demanded payment and Corp. U.S. could not pay. Said families settled the debt for the payments of all of Corp. U.S.' assets and for all of the assets of the Treasury of the United States of America.

As 1913 began, Corp. U.S. had no funds to carry out the necessary business needs of the government so they went to said families and asked if they could borrow some money. The families said no (Corp. U.S. had already demonstrated that they would not repay their debts in full). The families had foreseen this situation and had the year before finalized the creation of a private corporation of the name "Federal Reserve Bank". Corp. U.S. formed a relationship with the Federal Reserve Bank whereby they could transact their business via note rather than with money. Notice that this relationship was one made between two private corporations and did not involve government; that is where most people error in understanding the Federal Reserve Bank system-again it has no government relation at all. The private contracts that set the whole system up even recognize that if anything therein proposed is found illegal or impossible to perform it is excluded from the agreements and the remaining elements remain in full force and effect.

Almost simultaneously with the last fact (also in 1913), Corp. U.S. passes and adopts (as if ratified) their own 16th amendment. It must be noted that this amendment has nothing to do with our nation, with our people or with our national Constitution, which already had its own 16th amendment. The Supreme Court ruled that it did nothing that was not already done other than to make plain and clear the right of the United States (Corp. U.S.) to tax corporations. We agree, considering that they were created under the authority of Corp. U.S.

Next (also 1913) Congress passed and entered the 17th amendment as ratified, even though the states had no opportunity to ratify the same. This amendment is not only not ratified, it is not constitutional; the Constitution forbids Congress from even discussing the matter of where Senators are elected.

In 1914, the Freshman class and all Senators that successfully ran for re-election in 1913 by popular vote are seated in Corp. U.S. capacity only.

In 1917, Corp. U.S. enters WWI and passes their Emergency War Powers, and Trading with the Enemies Acts.

In 1918, President Wilson is re-elected by the Electoral College but their election is required to be confirmed by the constitutionally set Senate; where in the new Corp. U.S., only Senators were allowed to participate in the Electoral College vote confirmation. The only authority that could possibly have been used for electoral confirmation was corporate only. Therefore, President Wilson was not confirmed into office for his second term as President of the United States of America and was only seated in the Corp. U.S. Presidential capacity. Therefore the original jurisdiction government's seats were vacated because the people didn't seat any original jurisdiction government officers.

In 1933, the Trading with the Enemies Act is adjusted to recognize the people of the United States of America as enemies of Corp. U.S.

In 1944, under the Bretton Woods Agreement, Corp. U.S. is quit claimed to the International Monetary Fund, and becomes a foreign controlled private corporation.

Some time after 1935, you ask Social Security Administration for a relationship with their program. They create an entity with a name (that sounds like your name but is spelled with all capital letters) and a depository account number in the Social Security General Trust Fund (GTF). They give you the Social Security card which identifies you as the single person with authority to control the entity they created (on review: you may notice that the Social Security Administration was the creator of the entity, the GTF is its beneficiary and you were made its Trustee.) More importantly: this capacity does not limit you or your capacity to act in your sovereign capacity in any way.

The Bottom Line: when you speak about these private foreign corporations, remember that is what they are and stop calling them government.

Further, it is very important that we cease to attempt to fix them. It is far more important that we learn how to reseat our original jurisdiction government and spread the word about the truth. By reseating our State and national governments in their original jurisdiction nature, we gain the capacity to hold these private foreign corporations accountable. They owe us a lot of money, in fact they owe us more money than there is available in the world.

The fact is that it is impossible for them to pay and that gives us the leverage we need to take back our nation and put things right. The process is a simple one. The difficulty is in getting our people to wake up to the truth.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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how would i stop paying taxes? for example if i work at a fast food franchise? is there anything i could do?



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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Socialism is attractive to those with no capital. Capitalism is attractive to those with some or a lot of capital.

When the capitalist slow down credit markets they bolster their cause. When people are saving money they become more capitalistic as in a credit crunch. So when the socialist try and expand socialism in a tight credit market and during a time of increased savings rate they are incredibly unpopular.

That is why people are carrying guns to these socialist health care system cheer leading town hall events. These represent socialist going much deeper into our pockets when we can least afford it. Well that is my opinion on the subject anyway.

[edit on 28-8-2009 by wayouttheredude]



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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Funny to consider the Fed has molded my point of view since I am wholly opposed to the fed. Socialism, or just about any -ism means more Fed. More of the thing Ive been hating for the past 30 years.



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by 4stral4pprentice
 


The thing is, we need taxes, but we also need a transparency like we were promised. I stand for a flat tax that everybody pays at the cash register. This would put an end to all tax shelters, and everyone would have to pay the tax, no exceptions. But, to answer your question, the income tax is illegal, and un Constitutional, and there is no law to support it, but...the IRS will seize your property using a UCC lien and you cannot do anything about it, yet. The latest victims in the battle were Ed and Elaine Brown. They are now in Federal prison for refusing to pay an illegal income tax. Proof positive that our government is criminal.

Ed and Elaine Brown
A Profile in Government Tyranny
www.save-a-patriot.org...

Authorities Converge On Ed and Elaine Brown's Home
www.wcax.com...

ED BROWN OF NEW HAMPSHIRE FIGHTS THE GOVERNMENT OVER TAXES
THE BATTLE HAS STARTED - over 90 shots fired during the night
www.greatdreams.com...



posted on Aug, 28 2009 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by TheOracle
reply to post by sickofitall2012
 


Most social health care systems in the western world are broke or in the red. but they would never get rid of it because it works and its good.


I agree! And, not that it matters, but Bill Maher agrees too. Here is an excerpt from his "New Rules" segment a couple of weeks ago:


How about this for a New Rule: Not everything in America has to make a profit. It used to be that there were some services and institutions so vital to our nation that they were exempt from market pressures. Some things we just didn't do for money. The United States always defined capitalism, but it didn't used to define us. But now it's becoming all that we are.


The rest of his rant can be found here:

www.huffingtonpost.com...

It's a great read if anyone is interested.

Enjoy!




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