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Swedish daily publishes second article on 'IDF organ harvesting'

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posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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Swedish daily publishes second article on 'IDF organ harvesting'


www.ynetnews.com

Family of Palestinian teen killed in 1992 tells Aftonbladet reporters IDF soldiers demanded NIS 5,000 to return his body and claimed stitches result of autopsy

Despite Israel's harsh protests, Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet published a second article accusing the IDF of harvesting Palestinian organs.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said, "We do not want the Swedish government to apologize, we want it to issue a condemnation."
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.nytimes.com
edition.cnn.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Swedish paper's organ harvesting article draws Israeli outrageStory Highlights




posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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So here we are! The Israeli Goverment want the Swedish Goverment to issue an official and public condemnation which is impossible by the Swedish Laws & Constitution.

The Goverment & Politicians are forbidden to step in to stop or interfere with the media & newspaper articles.

This is a part of the Swedish safe-guarding apparatus to prevent tyrants and wanna be despots or other un-democratic forces to interfere with the freedoms of the free press & freedom of expression.

And Israel of course know this!

So do they want the Swedish Goverment to change the Swedish constitution or what?

Something else is happening here!

Aftonbladet newspaper are the ones that should retract the article and give an apology if their first article is totally false - I agree with that.

But here we are with a SECOND article, a follow up on the same story and they don't seem to have the plans to retract or condemn any of what they have wrote so far!

So what the heck is going on?

I think there is also something else at work here!

www.ynetnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 09:01 AM
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From this new article we can read:


In the article, published Sunday, Oisín Cantwell and Urban Andersson report from the northern West Bank village of Imatin, where 19-year-old Bilal Ahmad Ghanem was killed during a clash with Israeli soldiers in 1992.

The brother, who was 15-years-old at the time, recounted the shooting incident. "A number of (IDF) soldiers ambushed (the Palestinians) and opened fire. The fist shot hit (Bilal) in the chest, the second in the leg. We believe that he was still alive after sustaining the two bullet wounds."

The mother, Sadija, told Aftonbladet "they could have arrested him, but instead they decided to kill him.

According to the family, the IDF demanded NIS 5,000 (about $1,300) to return the body.

"It was the middle of the night. The soldiers caused an electrical power outage in the entire village. Bilal was returned in a black bag; he had no teeth. The body was stitched from the neck all the way down to the abdomen," the Swedish newspaper quoted the mother as saying.

According to the article, when asked what happened to the body, the soldiers said it had undergone an autopsy in Tel Aviv. The family, however, claims Bilal's organs had been stolen.

The Israeli government declared Sunday morning that it expects the Swedish government to officially condemn the first Aftonbladet report.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said, "We do not want the Swedish government to apologize, we want it to issue a condemnation."

On Thursday Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman slammed the Swedish Foreign Ministry for saying that Swedish Ambassador to Israel Elisabet Borsiin Bonnier's condemnation of the report does not represent the Swedish government's stance.

"It's a shame that the Swedish Foreign Ministry fails to intervene in a case of blood libels against Jews. This is reminiscent of Sweden's stand during World War II, when had failed to intervene as well," Lieberman said.


www.ynetnews.com...

I have read both articles in the SWEDISH language and nowhere can I find where the reporters are directly accusing Israel for harvesting organs. All I can see and read is some reporters who are doing their best and are TRYING objectively to give the reader a picture of what is happening right now to the Palestinian people and how desperate the situation is for some people there.

Then it's up to reader to draw his own conclusions I suppose!

I can also read this articles from an objective point of view where these reporters are reporting about the situation in Gaza and where SOME palestinian family's are accusing Israel for stealing their children's organ!

But nowhere can I read that the reporters are taking sides and are accusing in text directly the IDF soldiers of doing so!

The reporters are only giving the Palestinians in Gaza a chance to get their voices out to the rest of the world and the reporters are trying to do this with the articles.

Sure! with the photos included in the article it COULD be taken as a spin against the Israelis - and it could be taken for bad taste.

And of course, we really don't know if it's 100% true what the palestinians are saying to the reporters - that's correct and true as well!

But what this whole thing boils down to is that Israel is annoyed with the Swedish Liberal press laws. They don't want anyone to report from Gaza.

They don't want to any Palestians to give their stories in the European press - they want to control all levels of communication & information in and out from the West Bank and Gaza period.

And God forbid if the palestinians would say something that could put Israel in bad standing!

All I can read from the first article is that they are making the reader aware that this illegal organ trafficking do exist in the world and that some Palestinians are accusing the Israelis of doing so!

This is a serie of articles with AFTONBLADET reporting from a palestinian perspective, so this 'organ harvesting article' was not the first article from Gaza and the West Bank!

And I think these reports in the AFTONBLADET newspaper are starting to really annoy the Israeli authorities.

I don't know what is true or not in the reporting coming out from Gaza, but I think it's damn Important to give the Palestinians a voice and a channel out to the rest of the free world.

If the Palestinians are taking this as an opportunity to only spread lies & propaganda they must also understand that we the people of the West would soon discover this and they would loose all support or credibility that they had left!

So for the Palestinians it's very important to know this, because otherwise they would only destroy for themselves of course! and they know this!

But maybe some of them don't care anymore! maybe the situation in Gaza is soo desparate for some that they would do whatever, just to hang in there with their familes and survive.

And that would be their last desperate plea to the world to help them.


I really don't know what to believe or think anymore! - but I sure feel for the majority of the Palestinan People - the situation is awful, and we in the rest of the world should be ashamed of ourselves for letting their children to starve and go without proper health & medicine care and letting this farce to go on years after years!

This crap is some slow screwed up version of ethnic cleansing that is going on!

I'm not taking any of the extremists or terrorists side here! - I'm taking the HUMAN side on this!

I'm just feeling awful and are disgusted with how the majorities of women and children in Palestine are treated by other people in command on the other side.

This whole affair stinks! - something really fishy is going on beyond the usual bickering with the modus operandi of calling everyone who is criticizing the State of Israel; antisemites!

The Goverment of Israel now wants the Swedish Goverment to condemn the article from AFTONBLADET in public! but this is not possible you see because this is forbidden by the Swedish constitution.

The Swedish contitution says that it is forbidden for the Goverment or politicians to step in to stop or interfere with media/newspaper articles.

This is a part of the Swedish democratic safe-guarding apparatus to prevent anti-democratic tyrants and wannabe despots of being able to control the media and what the newspapers are writing.

If they now want to have an apology in public from the Swedish Goverment - they have to put this into a new law to completely change the Swedish constitution and take away the freedom of the press all together.

And Israel knows this! - they are not stupid you know!

So does this mean that the Israeli Goverment want a NEW Swedish constitution where it is written into LAWS that it is forbidden to criticize the State of Israel?

Yeah! there are other bigger motives & forces at work here!

This is not only about this written articles! - this is an attack on the Swedish contitution by TPTB who are using this incident of the article & and the State of Israel as a proxy to usher in the NWO agenda to suppress the freedom of the press & the freedom of expression in Europe.

Berlusconi and his cabal are doing the same right now in Italy, they are very near of implementing Laws against Bloggers & the Internet to have total totalitarian control over all media. And Berlusconi will be the one owning ALL media in Italy through his pesky fascist media empire - he will then decide what the sheeple can read or not!

The only differcence here, is that in Sweden they will use a zionist lobby group called: 'Friends of Israel' together with the Bonnier Media Group to implement and achieve the same goal & victory over the free press & freedom of expression!

Yeah! something really 'fishy' is happening behind the curtain!

And it ain't Kosher nor 'Gefilte fish'!



[edit on 24-8-2009 by Chevalerous]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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For a group of peoples who were generously handed the deed to a nation, they sure do complain a lot.

Does anyone really care what Israel has to say, anymore?



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by ninecrimes
 


Doubt it - the only other nation to SERIOUSLY back the Israelis is the UK and they LOST it big time with the coverage of Palestine -

Israel has totally done their lot in most of the civilized world - Australia wont say boo either, then again, Australia wouldn't stand up to check if they had just shat their pants the bunch of cowards.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 10:06 AM
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Amazingly enough the Israeli Government is now denying Press Credentials to the reporters from the Swedish Tabloid that published these articles, effectively denying them enterance to Gaza and the West Bank to prohibit them from conducting any further investigation into the accusations by Palestenians that date back decades to the early 1990's.

While Israel and it's supporters try the usual tactics of intimidation and blanket condemnations while precluding any credible investigation of it's own into these accusations more and more people around the world are becoming suspicious of Israel and it's motives in trying to supress this story.

The Israeli Foreign Minister claims of 'blood libel' are just rediculous for the 21st century world and a pitiful excuse to justify not conducting a credible investigation in to the matter.

It truly is as if Israel wishes to set itself aside as a nation not beholden to international standards of morality, justice and freedom and then has the sheer nerve to bemoan when anyone has the good sense and temerity to accuse it of deliberately taking such a stance for unscrupulous gain.

INTERPOL and the U.N. should be investigating these accusations and Israel should be aiding them in that end as a responsible member of the International Community instead of showing once again the rule of law and morality stops at Israel's borders, while they try to dictate to the rest of the world by attacking the Free Press.

Shameful and shameless behavior on the part of the Israeli State should be seen for exactly what it is, shameful and shameless.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by Chevalerous


So here we are! The Israeli Goverment want the Swedish Goverment to issue an official and public condemnation which is impossible by the Swedish Laws & Constitution.

The Goverment & Politicians are forbidden to step in to stop or interfere with the media & newspaper articles.

This is a part of the Swedish safe-guarding apparatus to prevent tyrants and wanna be despots or other un-democratic forces to interfere with the freedoms of the free press & freedom of expression.

And Israel of course know this!

So do they want the Swedish Goverment to change the Swedish constitution or what?

Something else is happening here!

Aftonbladet newspaper are the ones that should retract the article and give an apology if their first article is totally false - I agree with that.

But here we are with a SECOND article, a follow up on the same story and they don't seem to have the plans to retract or condemn any of what they have wrote so far!

So what the heck is going on?

I think there is also something else at work here!

www.ynetnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


Its a rather long story, but cut short, back in the 1960, 70s and 1980's Sweden had a very prominent politician and leader of the social democrat party (socialist) called Olof Palme who later becamse prime minister of Sweden. Olof Plame stood up for the palestinian cause and marched in demonstrations against Israel and against the US. The newspaper publishing articles like the above is most probably coloured by Olof Palmes legacy and socialist red by colour of course.

Wikipedia on Palme
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 10:50 AM
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Seems to me that the only way to settle is would be to exhume the body, and do an autopsy to determine if the organs are there are not. That would expose either Israelis as liars, and the Palestinians as liars. It's abhorrent enough that the families must pay to get the bodies.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by Chevalerous

"It's a shame that the Swedish Foreign Ministry fails to intervene in a case of blood libels against Jews. This is reminiscent of Sweden's stand during World War II, when had failed to intervene as well," Lieberman said.



What on Earth? How can Israel possibly equate these two incidents?

Instead of getting on their high horse and accusing the Palestinians of libelling them (which obviously makes them (the Palestinians) the equivalent of modern day Nazis) the proper response would be an offer to investigate the claims.

Better still, allow an independent body to investigate the claims. When that is done the whole world could see who needs to be condemned.

Chevalerous - I suspect that you are right about the hidden agenda.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by berenike]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by reugen
 


Talk about coincidence ..

I was reading something online last night and an illustration of Olof Palme was in a sidebar (I'm pretty sure it was him) with a header claiming he was assassinated in front of his wife -- but I didn't have time to read it.

I'll check out the Wiki link in a minute to see if I hallucinated the whole thing



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by reugen
 

The newspaper publishing articles like the above is most probably coloured by Olof Palmes legacy and socialist red by colour of course.
I'd be interested to read what, in your opinion, a person being a socialist has to do with their views on 1 country occupying the territory of another in defiance of international law or agreements?
I'd remind you that French socialists were less than happy with the Nazis well before France was invaded, British socialists also criticised the USSR for invading Afghanistan & German socialists were against the US led invasion of Iraq.
Do you think that being a socialist also has any relevance to a persons views on human rights violations, for instance? Or is it the case that you used the word rather like one might say 'scum', as a catch all derogatory that seeks to go unconsidered further?
Btw, I'm not a socialst, my views spring from a wide spectrum. Why I'm asking for clarification here is in attempt to head off the kind of obfustication which we often see arise when political labels get bandied about, especially since often they are out of context.
Edit for misunderstanding.

[edit on 24/8/09 by Bunken Drum]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by Bunken Drum
 


What i meant was that Aftonbladet, which is a a socialist newspaper , will always honour the legacy of Olof Palme and his likes. Its just politics nothing more. Olof was the first swedish politician to stand up for PLO for example, against the US, its that legacy i am talking about. Probably 90% of all swedish journalists with a swedish journalist degree have a leftish view on things i.e they are socialists and why is that, because their teachers also honour the legacy of Olof Palme , haha



Cheers,

[edit on 2009/8/24 by reugen]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by reugen
 
Let me get this straight. Are you suggesting that because a person may well have some views which are socialist in nature, that they will automatically fall in line with the opinion of a prominent socialist about issues which have nothing to do with political ideology but rather morality & law?
If so, do you think this is any more of an issue amongst socialists than say, religious people or monetarists?
Do you think that studying journalism might not actually inhibit such sheep-like following, especially for a free-lancer, whose reputation & thus future work would suffer greatly if they were to be shown to have merely adopted a stance out of loyalty rather than because that's what their research suggested?



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by reugen
 


Yes I know of Olof Palme of course! and thanks for refreshing my memory!


Your right!

I was born in the mid 60's so I remember the marches for the Palestinians and how that annoyed the Israelis and the Swedish Zionist Group "Friends of Israel" went totally bonkers, like raving mad dogs!

But now they are at it again! Israel is spinning this like crazies and in their medias they have an anti-Sweden campaign for the masses who are now screaming for blood!

Man these Israeli zionist spin doctors have very short memories!

Swedes has done many good things for the Jewish people, but they seem to have totally forget about that now when their spin doctors are at work!

They are not a thankful bunch, are they? Their own people (Stern Gang) killed Count Folke Bernadotte who had saved many Jewish lives during WW2


Folke Bernadotte, Count of Wisborg (2 January 1895 – 17 September 1948) was a Swedish diplomat noted for his negotiation of the release of about 31,000 prisoners from German concentration camps during World War II. In 1945, he received a German surrender offer from Heinrich Himmler, though the offer was ultimately rejected.

Upon the initiative of the Norwegian diplomat Niels Christian Ditleff in the final months of the war, Bernadotte acted as the negotiator for a rescue operation transporting interned Norwegians, Danes and other western European inmates from German concentration camps to hospitals in Sweden.

The mission became known for its buses, painted entirely white except for the Red Cross emblem on the side, so that they would not be mistaken for military targets.

The missions took approximately two months, and exposed the Swedish Red Cross staff to significant danger, both due to political difficulties and by taking them through areas under Allied bombing.

After Germany's surrender, the White Buses mission continued in May and June to save approximately 10,000 additional people.

In total, around 31,000 people were taken to safety in the "White Buses" of the Bernadotte expedition, including between 6,500 and 11,000 Jews.

en.wikipedia.org...



The newly-formed Israeli government banned the organization under an anti-terrorism law passed three days after its September 1948 assassination of the UN mediator Folke Bernadotte. The United Nations Security Council called the assassins "a criminal group of terrorists," and Lehi was similarly condemned by the subsequent United Nations mediator Ralph Bunche. The group never had more than a few hundred members. Future Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Shamir was among its leaders.

en.wikipedia.org...(group)


And what about the Swedish diplomat hero Raoul Wallenberg and what they did with the Swedish passports to help the Jewish people in Hungary?

How many tens of thousands of Jewish lives did they save this way from being deported to the deathcamp of Auschwitz?


Raoul Wallenberg (August 4, 1912 – July 17, 1947?) was a Swedish humanitarian who worked in Budapest, Hungary, during World War II to rescue Jews from the Holocaust. Between July and December 1944, he issued protective passports and housed Jews, saving tens of thousands of Jewish lives.

On July 9, 1944, Wallenberg travelled to Budapest as the First Secretary to the Swedish legation in Budapest. Together with fellow Swedish diplomat Per Anger, he issued "protective passports" (German: Schutz-Pass), which identified the bearers as Swedish subjects awaiting repatriation and thus prevented their deportation. Although not legal, these documents looked official and were generally accepted by German and Hungarian authorities, who sometimes were also bribed. The Swedish legation in Budapest also succeeded in negotiating with the Germans so that the bearers of the protective passes would be treated as Swedish citizens and be exempt from having to wear the yellow Star of David on their chests.


And right now the Israelis have the the former Ambassador to Sweden Mr. Zvi Mazel who is spouting blatant lies about Sweden 24/7 in Israeli media & television news together with the spin doctors.

Zvi Mazel is best known for being a raving lunatic and making a complete fool of himself when he destroyed the art-work of the Israeli artist: Dror Feiler at an art exhibition in Stockholm.

The Artwork was a ship in a big pool of red water symbolizing all the blood that had been spilled of both sides in the conflict. The sail of ship had a face of a Palestinian girl who was a suicide bomber.

OK! maybe bad taste of the artist but you don't go bonkers and bezerk destroying it in front of people when you're an Ambassador - that's just crazy!

When the people was informed it was the Israeli Ambassador they couldn't believe their eyes or ears - they just shooked their heads and said: what a crazy fool!


He made news a few times. Once, in reaction to a call to boycott Israeli product, he stated that the Swedish Archbishop K. G. Hammar "probably is an anti-semite."

He has also been quoted as saying that Swedish foreign minister Anna Lindh's criticism of Israel's alleged human rights violations could not be tolerated.

Internationally, he is probably best known for vandalizing the artwork Snow White and The Madness of Truth in January 2004. The piece consisted of a boat floating in a rectangular basin filled with red water, signifying blood. The boat contained a card with a portrait of Palestinian suicide bomber Hanadi Jaradat on one side and the word "Snövit" ("Snow White" in Swedish) written on the other. The artwork was part of the exhibition Making Differences. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon later thanked Mazel and announced his support for Mazel's actions

A few days after the attack Mazel claimed that "There are daily agitations in Swedish media to kill Jews."

In a TV interview on 22 February 2004, Mazel called former foreign minister Sten Andersson and Sweden's UN ambassador Pierre Schori "professional anti-Israelis."


en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

This guy and others are now on a Crusade against Sweden again - because Sweden apparently don't want to follow Israels orders and do what Israel wants it do to.

And that's why I think this is a part of a much bigger agenda!

These zionist guys have gone friggin' insane! unbelievable! GTFO!

Edit: man I can't believe this! now on the TV news they are showing the Israeli foreign Minister Lieberman in a speech lashing out at Norway as well - calling them anti-semitics!


It's official folks! - the fascist Lieberman & the Israeli regime has now gone totally bonkers!


May God have mercy on their souls!


[edit on 24-8-2009 by Chevalerous]



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by Bunken Drum
reply to post by reugen
 
Let me get this straight. Are you suggesting that because a person may well have some views which are socialist in nature, that they will automatically fall in line with the opinion of a prominent socialist about issues which have nothing to do with political ideology but rather morality & law?
If so, do you think this is any more of an issue amongst socialists than say, religious people or monetarists?
Do you think that studying journalism might not actually inhibit such sheep-like following, especially for a free-lancer, whose reputation & thus future work would suffer greatly if they were to be shown to have merely adopted a stance out of loyalty rather than because that's what their research suggested?


I am saying, until we know for a fact that Israel is harvesting organs, its all speculation but the swedish socialist newspaper jumped the gun. Its in their interest to do so becasue they have always disliked Israel and the imperalistic USA etc. The views expressed in the newspaper is coloured by politics and ideology and it dates back to the 60s.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Couple of things here:

Fisrt off organ donation does not work that way. Im sorry it does not. The person donating the organs actually has to be in decent shape. Gunshot wounds to the chest pretty much precludes organs from being harvested.

Also you cannot just plug organs into people. It takes time to type the donor get the recipents into hospitals etc.

I am no fan of the the way the IDF conducts itself but I doubt they are charging for the return of bodies. Im betting if true its the act of a few rogue people as opposed to official policy IMHO.

The bottom line here is that this is long on speculation and conjecture and short on reality and facts.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by reugen
 

I am saying, until we know for a fact that Israel is harvesting organs, its all speculation but the swedish socialist newspaper jumped the gun. Its in their interest to do so becasue they have always disliked Israel and the imperalistic USA etc. The views expressed in the newspaper is coloured by politics and ideology and it dates back to the 60s.
Well, that sounds like you are indeed saying what I posted earlier, that an alleged socialist would follow an opinion about morality & law from another socialist without regard to their own research. Except that in this case, the reporter did do his own research, on site talking to the people who made the allegations, who did lose family members, @least 1 photo of whom, showing the cadaver cut up, exists & who are willing to have the bodies exhumed for examination. We also know that there is an international trade in illegally obtained organs & that Israeli citizens have been involved in it before.
Basically we have a long conflict which could have supplied the organs; demand for them; accusations that it's happened & possible perpetrators. It isn't @all illogical to call for an investigation.
Aftonbladet did not "jump the gun", indeed, if investigative journalists had to wait until conclusive proof was available, there would be no such journalism, rather just court house reporters giving us 'the facts' as determined, in the only way they can be, by law.
But hang on, its a socialist plot to undermine the imperialist USA via its (in reality also quite socialist) ally Israel?
My hole...



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by SpacePunk
Seems to me that the only way to settle is would be to exhume the body, and do an autopsy to determine if the organs are there are not. That would expose either Israelis as liars, and the Palestinians as liars. It's abhorrent enough that the families must pay to get the bodies.


That's so right.
Dig him up.
Who needs all this dragging in of "blood libels" and talk of apologies when it is a simple question of fact that can easily be determined?



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by FredT
 
Thinking about this thread some more, I realised I should address your points also, Fred.
Have you ever seen the state of people after a motorbike accident? Yet many in the medical profession call bikes "donor mobiles". Yeah, if a person gets shot, the cavitation injury may well destroy several organs, but not all of them & simple exsanguination doesn't make organs no good for transplant either.
Certainly organs do have to be tissue typed to match the recipient, but this must be able to be done quickly, otherwise there could never be transplants from the victims of accidents.
I cant see how, if I were running such an operation, I would not have a database of waiting patients to compare any corpse against. Thus I'd only take the organs that I had a customer for.



posted on Aug, 24 2009 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
Couple of things here:

Fisrt off organ donation does not work that way. Im sorry it does not. The person donating the organs actually has to be in decent shape. Gunshot wounds to the chest pretty much precludes organs from being harvested.

Also you cannot just plug organs into people. It takes time to type the donor get the recipents into hospitals etc.

I am no fan of the the way the IDF conducts itself but I doubt they are charging for the return of bodies. Im betting if true its the act of a few rogue people as opposed to official policy IMHO.

The bottom line here is that this is long on speculation and conjecture and short on reality and facts.


Sorry thats rubbish - I have posted innumerable details of Israeli organ harvesting - they have a long, very long history of it - I even posted the reasons WHY it is an issue in Israel - extends to religious laws.

Further Organs are harvested directly from car crash victims - which CAN receive considerably more trauma than a single bullet to the chest cavity - the organs are harvested sometimes in situ, in the ambulance etc.

Organs can be matched to data bases within minutes - so not sure what the hell you are banging on about, however since it is so full of falsehoods I suspect you are merely agenda driven - kind of fits.

Why post with such an authoritative, absolute attitude when you don't actually know ?

Your a moderator, shouldn't take you a second to dig up my post which details exactly why you are wrong. Deny ignorance - remember?


[edit on 24-8-2009 by audas]



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